Talk:Ukrainian Revolution

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[edit] Forking

1. Ukrainian Revolution is Ukrainian Revolution. Russian Revolution is not Ukrainian Revolution. You are a Russian. Most of Russians are (little bit) patriots and will be NEVER neutral about Ukrainians, Poles or anarchists because Ukrainians (Maknovists, Petliuravists) were enemies and anarchists don't like Russian Empire or Russian Federation, the prison of peoples. Russians learned in school that Makhno wasn't revolutionary but white guardist. You can be neutral about Belgium or Denmark for example but not about Ukraine. So stop destroying articles about Ukrainian anarchists.--Maliuta 23:06, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

2. Makhnovism is an anarchist ideology or theory, not events or revolution or war!--Maliuta 23:09, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

You are partially right. Ukrainian revolution is not the Russian revolution, true. The point is that Ukrainian revolutions, aside from the Orange Revolution mean the events that took place in Ukraine during the 1905 and 1917 revolutions in the Russian E#mpire. Articles specifically devoted to such events as a whole may be written but copy/pasting of what's written on another topic is not a solution. Besides, those events are covered to a degree in the Ukrainian People's Republic, Central Rada, Directorate of Ukraine, Hetmanate and other articles. Writing an all new article specifically on the topic you suggest is of course a good idea. Pasting other articles under the titles you favor isn't. More at your talk. --Irpen 23:32, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

The article "Makhnovism" is a copy of "Ukrainian Revolution", not vice versa.--Maliuta 23:33, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

OK, now we are finally talking on topic. This discussion is about the following. Which is a better name for that one article. "Ukrainian Revolution" or "Maknovism"? One or the other but not both and as such no two identical articles under different names. Let's discuss which name is better. --Irpen 23:41, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

OK. Makhnovism and Ukrainian Revolution are connected but different things. Makhnovism is a THEORY (by Makhno, Arshinov etc.; like Marxism for example), Ukrainian Revolution was the PRACTICE, just a revolution in Ukraine leaded by Batko Makhno. So here must be two different articles. This article (Ukrainian Revolution) is about Ukrainian Revolution, not about Makhnovism.--Maliuta 23:57, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

"Makhnovism" (makhnovshchyna) also refers to the Makhnovist movement, or the Makhnovist uprising, which was only one part of Ukrainian events following the Revolutions in the Russian Empire. I suggest titling the most general article Makhnovism, and when that gets very large, spin off a more specific article called Makhnovist theory or philisophy of Makhnovism.

And please don't label people by what you presume to be their background, and what you presume their motivations to be. That kind of discourse only gives insight on your own motivations, and it doesn't belong here.

Finally, do not continue trying to rename the article by copy-pasting its content elsewhere. This is against the rules. Wikipedia has a legal obligation to give credit to editors who have contributed to the article by maintaining its edit history. Copy-paste moves lose the history. If you insist that the article's name be changed, go through the proper procedure at Wikipedia:Requested moves. —Michael Z. 2006-10-27 00:20 Z

OK, I'm sorry, here is the solution: Makhnovshchina.--Maliuta 00:31, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Alright, but there is still the issue of the copy-paste move. The current content of Ukrainian Revolution was copy-pasted from the article Makhnovism, so its history is now orphaned. I'm going to revert this. If you want that content to be renamed Ukrainian Revolution, you must post a request at Wikipedia:Requested moves. —Michael Z. 2006-10-27 03:10 Z

[edit] POV

Well, here we go again. I'm tagging this article with a POV banner. The Makhnovist movement was not a period in the history of Ukraine—it was merely one of many factions active in Ukraine at the time. Likewise, Makhno did not "lead a period in the history of Ukraine", as implied by the intro. —Michael Z. 2006-10-27 17:53 Z

I added POV-title as well. Please cite sources that specifically show that the term UR is the prevailing name for those event in English language historic literature. --Irpen 17:57, 27 October 2006 (UTC)