Talk:UEFA Champions League

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Contents

[edit] Early discussions

For God sake change the 2005 data. Liverpool beat Chelsea 1-0 in the semi final and the final hasn't even taken place yet!

but isn't the Cup Winners' cup now part of the Champs league? or is it part of the Uefa cup? Those Blatter changes have me all confused! JHK

According to the uefa website, the uefa cup is open to cup winners and teams that finished immediately behind champions league qualifiers. At some stage, I suppose we'll have to explain the difference between league and cup championships for our American friends :)--Robert Merkel
<giggle> I'm actually one of them, but married into a Charlton Athletic family -- even got cornered by the uncles at the wedding reception and quizzed on football (best striker? best keeper? who were the Busby babes?...). so the Uefa cup is the one that combines the old Cup inners' Cup and the Uefa cup. Good. Now the really fun thing would be not only explaining league and cup championships, but how the Worthington cup used to be the Coca-cola cup... ;-) JHK

Should the European Champions Club Cup winners be added to this article or should there be another article on this?

This article should cover both the old and new competitions, as the Champions League is basically just a new format for the good old-fashioned European Cup. I'd also suggest moving this article to UEFA Champions League, as that's its full title and is less ambiguous. sjorford 10:56, 23 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Please change this to UEFA Champions League as there is a similar Champions League called AFC Champions League in Asia. Mandel 17:48, Sep 27, 2004 (UTC)
There were also some sad moments. There was the 1958 Munich air disaster in which some Manchester United players died, breaking a marvellous team.

The Munich air disaster is sad, but it is not part of the Champions League history. Mandel 04:03, Sep 6, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Order of table

Wouldn't it make more sense to have the table in chronological order, with the earliest at the top? It's not far to scroll down to see the latest winners. sjorford 11:11, 4 May 2004 (UTC)

  • perhaps the table should be split by 10-year spans or by decade with an index list - WolfenSilva

[edit] Intercontinental Cup

Hi. I noticed that there's no mention in the article about the fact that the champion of this tournament qualifies for the Intercontinental Cup match against the champion of South America's Copa Libertadores de América. At the very least, the article on the Intercontinental Cup should be linked in the "See Also" section. It seems to be a grave omission (not so much the link in the "See Also" section, but the mention in the article should be there). Regards, Redux 22:50, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

The reason why the Intercontinental Cup isn't mentioned is that the competition no longer exists. The last Intercontinental Cup was the one held this past summer (2004) between Porto and Once Caldas. FIFA is replacing it with the FIFA Club World Championship. Dale Arnett 03:36, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] No brief introduction for 1985-2005

We saw brief intro for 1955-1984, but latest 20 years were missing. To be added ? Regards

[edit] Titleholders' qualification

If someone has time, could we please clear up just whether the titleholder automatically gets a spot in the CL in light of this article? I'll do it myself later if I get time. Thanks, Rupert.

I've just added a treatment of this issue in the "Qualification" section. Hope this helps clear things up. Dale Arnett 03:32, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)


But is this accurate? Guinnog 00:19, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

the article on champions league history suggests that the holders would take the place of the lowest qualifier in their domestic league. Whether that means that they "automatically do", or "are eligible to", I'm not sure. The UEFA website doesn't really help... Andymarczak 09:54, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
That's what the whole Liverpool affair was about last summer. The new rules say the title-holders always have a place. Conscious 16:44, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Suggestion for minor reorganization of history

I'm thinking about combining the 1992-1996 and 1997-98 sections into a single section and calling it "1992 to 1998 - The Italian Invitational". On second thought, make that "1989 to 1988..."

Of the 10 finals from 1989-1998, only one did not feature an Italian team. The rundown:

  • 1989-90: Milan (won both times)
  • 1991: Only matchup not to involve an Italian team
  • 1992: Sampdoria (lost)
  • 1993-95: Milan (won 1994)
  • 1996-98: Juve (won 1996)

Any comments/criticisms? I won't make the change unless I get a fairly clear consensus in favor. Dale Arnett 21:20, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Team Flags

Can the flags next to each team to represent the team flag rather than the country flag? 68.17.133.137 21:21, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

Done ωhkoh [Т] 01:13, May 30, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Heysel and Juventus

At the year 1985 where the Heysel tragedy is mentioned it is quoted that "Juventus was banned for one year and it couldn't defend the title". As far as I remember Juventus was punnished similarly as Roma this season (i.e. 3 home matches without any audience) and it actually was defending the title next season as the second Italian team (beside Verona). According to this site (in German) it lost in quarterfinals against Barcelona (who later lost in the finals)

Yep, I believe you are quite right there, as the Uefa site confirms. I dunno if it's been changed yet. In fact, they beat Jeunesse d'Esch of Luxembourg and fellow Italians Verona in the previous rounds. Starfighter Pilot 19:59, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Rapid aging?

The article mentions the "rapid aging" of the Ajax and Bayern sides. Was this the result of a scientific experiment gone wrong, or could the idea be better expressed? I'm not at all sure what that idea is, though. Mark1 08:09, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] History of the Champions League

Wouldn't it be better to move all the history section to a new article called "History of the Champions League" ?

[edit] Time to do a year by year history of Champions League

There are enough data to do so, particularly the fact that the group stages contain a good number of games which ought to documented. As can be seen from the latest Liverpool victory, having a separate page called UEFA Champions League Season 2004/5 may solve a good lot of problems instead of the lopsided history now presented on this page. Mandel 21:38, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)

For the 2004/05 season we have all the Champions' League results from the 1st Qualifying Round recorded in the "month in sport" pages; for earlier years you'll have to get the details from outside sources. -- Arwel 21:48, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
How helpful is it to have the details in a "month in sport" page? Not very I think. Most people I presume will search for details under this section and article. Mandel 22:19, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)
True, but the "month in sport" pages are the archives of Current sports events, where the results were recorded as they happened (together with much other sports news, of course). -- Arwel 22:43, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Steaua - Home grown team ?

The article states " Celtic are the only club to have won the competition with a team comprised entirely of home-grown talent. " Is this true? What about Steaua Bucarest? 14/08/05

Steaua had a Yugoslavian player.

Why is the Manchester United treble described at unprecedented? What is so unprecedented about something done by Celtic, Ajax and PSV?

Answer: Because the Scottish & Dutch leagues are inferior to the English league.

Indeed, however I just can't recall the results from a couple of years ago when Celtic kicked the arses of both Liverpool and Blackburn.--TheMadTim 04:28, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The song

What's the name of the melody of Champions League? I used to know its name; and it is a famous one. Anyone? --Anittas 06:12, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

It's mentioned under the (way too long IMO) Trivia section in this article, but we have an article on the anthem. See UEFA Champions League Anthem Shanes 06:24, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
Way cool! Thanks a lot! --Anittas 06:29, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Liverpool controversy

Liverpool fans will hate me for this (good) but I've moved this section here. There's no way this was notable enough to have this much space in this article, although maybe a sentence or two in the Qualification section would be alright. I'm sure it belongs somewhere on Wikipedia though - maybe History of Liverpool F.C. or 2005-06 in English football. Image:Yemen flag large.png CTOAGN (talk)

Does this story deserve an article of its own? Like 2005 UEFA decision on Liverpool F.C.? Conscious 09:32, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
I don't think so, but I wouldn't be bothered if it got one. If either Liverpool or Everton had had to drop out of the competition it would have been notable, as it is it's just an administrative cock-up that UEFA managed to fix in time. Image:Yemen flag large.png CTOAGN (talk) 09:43, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
I think it should have its own article, or, if all the qualification controversies are expanded, included in an article covering them all (or a section here, for instance). The Real Zaragoza incident should be covered in more detail, because I think it's noteworthy. -RomeW

[edit] Liverpool Controversy

Until 2005 if the Champions League winner was from a country that was entitled to send four clubs to the competition, it was not assured of entry unless it was in the top four. This issue came to a head after English club Liverpool won the 2004-05 competition. Liverpool finished fifth in the FA Premier League, one spot outside automatic qualifying position.

After Liverpool won the Champions League, The FA was forced to choose whether to send Liverpool to the 2005-06 competition at the expense of the team that finished fourth - namely Everton, the other major club in Liverpool. As the FA had already decided that the top four Premiership clubs would qualify for the competition despite Liverpool's victory, they decided to continue lobbying for a fifth Champions League place following this win. After this FA decision, UEFA president Lennart Johansson went on record as saying that the Champions League winner should be able to defend its title regardless of its league position. Prior to 2005, if a fourth placed team was denied a Champions League place for this reason, it was granted a place in the UEFA Cup.

The last time such a scenario played out was in 2000, when Real Madrid won the title but finished fifth in the Spanish League. As a result, Real Zaragoza was forced into the UEFA Cup. Two years later, Zaragoza was relegated, an unfortunate turn of events that some fans believed to be a direct result of the lost prestige and revenue.

In June 2005, the UEFA committee met to discuss the fate of Liverpool. Liverpool was awarded a place in the first qualifying round without displacing their arch-rivals Everton - England thus entered 5 teams from the qualifying stages of the competition. Liverpool kept one of the top eight seeds but were not treated as an English side for the purposes of the draw, meaning they could play another English side prior to the quarter-finals. Due to the way in which the seeding works, this means Liverpool could have played city rivals Everton in the third qualifying round.

After qualifying, the Reds were ultimately drawn to play Premiership champions Chelsea in the group phase. Everton failed to qualify because of their loss to Villareal and participated briefly in the UEFA Cup before being knocked out 5-1 on aggregate by Dinamo Bucharest in the very first round.

UEFA also said that the rules have been amended and should the situation arise again, the title holders will replace the 4th placed team in the domestic league (with that team being entered into the UEFA Cup, as happened to Zaragoza in 2000). This ensures that in future, the number of teams from every country will remain stable.

[edit] European Cup and Champions League finals/statistics

I think these sections should be removed and their articles linked to in a See also section. What does everyone else think? Image:Yemen flag large.png CTOAGN (talk) 09:33, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Or maybe should just have a summary of these articles. What about moving the "Trivia" section to European Cup and Champions League statistics? It forms most of the article now, and that's ridiculous. Conscious 13:47, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
Good call Conscious. It's fair to say that the Trivia side of things is probably the most interesting to a football anorak, and I deleted about a third of it cos it was just too geeky! Andymarczak 13:20, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The other European Cups

Hello there. I'm in the process of writing an article for the European ice hockey championship, which was called the "European Cup" (see European Cup (ice hockey) and since 2005 the "European Champions Cup", which has a page at IIHF European Champions Cup. Both those terms redirect here.

Undoubtedly, the vast majority of people who type in "European Cup" want this page. But many sports also have European Cups - off the top of my head I know skiing and basketball also do, maybe there should be a link at the top to a disambig page?

As for "European Champions Cup", the only place I've seen the UEFA Champions League called that is in Championship Manager which has to get creative since they can't use the trademark. I would make that redirect to IIHF European Champions Cup, with a similar link to here for those more interested in footy.

Thoughts? --Legalizeit 15:16, 16 March 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Liverpool keeping the trophy

Afaik, Liverpool got to keep the trophy "permanently" after winning the Champions League 5 times. This season's winner will get a new trophy. But the third paragraph says Gerrard handed over the trophy after the loss to Benfica this season. Can someone clarify on this?

[edit] Audience figures

An anon. keeps insisting that the league attracts a global audience of over a billion people. This seems clearly false; Googling throws up some authoritative sites (including UEFA itself) which place the figures for the final at 280 million[1] or 200 milllion[2], and other sites say four U.S. billion (four thousand million)[3] for the league as a whole.

Even if the figure is over a thousand million, given the ambiguity of "billion", we should surely stick to the phrase "thousand million" for clarity. Does anyone know what the actual figures are for each, given the discrepancies? --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 09:37, 22 April 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Bernabeu -shocking omission

Liked the article, but found one shocking omission: not one mention of how Santiago Bernabeu helped create the Champions' League (then European Cup) and helped it kick off. He even, in a gesture quoted as 'exceedingly gentlemanly', proposed who should preside the incipient European Football association (and ruled himself out). Now, I'm talking from memory here, but surely someone can find a reference about this? It is widely understood in Spain that Bernabeu had a lot of influence on the begginings of the European cup, and without a mention of him the article would indeed be somewhat lacking. Just an opinion. Raystorm, 15 May 2006, 23:43h

[edit] Merge from Champions League Anthem

UEFA Champions League Anthem is a duplicate of the relevant section in this article. If it differs, then I suggest we merge the two into this article. If not, then simply delete the anthem article. (Feel free to PROD it!) haz (user talk) 20:43, 16 May 2006

I sugest keeping the anthem article and make the section on it here much shorter. For instance, we don't need the full lyrics here. There are more that could be said about the anthem that should go in the anthem article, and also I'd like to have the anthem listed in Category:Anthems and it seems wrong to have this main UEFA Champions league article in that category. Shanes 21:52, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
I agree with Shanes, it's better to move info out of the main article. Conscious 17:28, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why No Table?

It would be nice if there were a table showing winners and semifinalists for each year, along with country of origin. I think the page for the Copa Libertadores would be a good model. Anyone want to take this on? --Tisco 15:03, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Never mind, I see that it's here. Editing the main page in an effort to make this more clear. --Tisco 15:09, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
These three articles really contain much the same information, but in different formats. This was the root cause of my confusion. It would be good if someone could slim them down, and perhaps unify them. --Tisco 15:45, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] UEFA Champions League records and statistics is WRONG

If my memory is right, Olympique Marseille have one a trophy in 1993. Their league title was taken from them because of a scandal, but they still have the CL. Is all the rest correct? I don't trust it anymore :P Rosti Talis 19:19, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Link Request

I think it would be fine to set up a link to www.fussball.com, a european site with information about the uefa champions league and all other european leagues. at this time, I can`t see links on the article with *news* about the champions league and their teams. in my opinion this is essential for the article.

[edit] Divers (refering to the Barca v Chelsea match 06)

The worst diver on the pitch was Drogba, that cannot be disputed. However, for Drogba to keep up with the likes of Deco, truly the diving master, must be a real plus point for him. As a suporter of lower opposition, Birmimgham, we belate when our strikers receive an almighty kick and don't go down, so where can FIFA and the FA draw the line. If this issue contiues to develop at the rate it is, players will be receiving marks out of ten for their diving skills, and the pitch will have to be lengthened so players can roll and roll and roll... Millm0w 09:21, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Steaua Bucharest data

Steaua Bucharest won the European Cup in 1986 against Barcelona in the final. So why is it given that the runner up during that year was Steaua Bucharest itself???? I haven't edited it since this is a very major article and I want to make sure from other people. Saurabh 05:58, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Steaua were runners-up in 1989. Conscious 07:31, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
Ohh Sorry. My mistake. Didn't see the format currectly. It does not specify any year. Topic closed :) Saurabh 03:51, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] (player who played most champions league games

WHO HAS PLAYED MOST CHAMPIONS LEAGUE GAMES AS A PLAYER AND WHAT TEAM HAS PLAYED MOST GAMES? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 132.199.34.61 (talk) 17:09, 7 December 2006 (UTC).

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