Talk:Tsetse fly

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Contents

[edit] Notes on Main Text

This section holds the discussion of the contents of the main page and relevant references.

[edit] Introduction

[edit] Etymology of 'Tsetse'

Re: your question on Talk:Tswana language. Both Tswana and Sotho belong to the Sotho-Tswana branch of the Bantu languages; they are relatively closely related (which means that they will have a lot of vocabulary in common and will more or less sound alike). Thus it is quite possible that both Sotho and Tswana have tsetse for 'fly'. Next monday I'll be able to check "Setswana: animals and plants: ditshedi le ditlhare", Cole (1995), and I'm sure the answer will be there.

In any case, a number of other Bantu languages have roots that are similar in sound for (various species of) fly. Bukusu, for example (Kenya, Mount Elgon area) has ee-ci for 'small brown biting fly'. Swahili has n-zi (also nzi-nzi) as a general word for fly (the Swahili word for tsetse fly is mbungo). Shi (DRC) has een-zii for 'fly'. Myene/Mpongwe (Gabon) has tɛzi. I think it's quite probable that this root is somewhat onomatopoeiic. I vaguely remember Ewe (a non-Bantu language spoken in Ghana) having a similar word for tsetse, but I'd have to check that. To be continued! — mark ✎ 10:11, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)


Thanks for the reply. First, we certainly can assume the word is onomatopoeiic. Second, the T'wi and Fante languages of Ghana definately use tsetse, as the same people do in english but, from a historical standpoint, that's probably an imported word; I suspect Ewe may similarly have adopted the word. For historical reasons, the origin of of the meme 'tsetse' seems to have been in the southern cone, so it seems Tswana/Sotho are likely. I'll have to polish up this discussion for public consumption eventually. Thanks again. Acuster 15:34, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)


Actually, since you seem knowledgeable in linguistics, could you suggest a better way to present the explosive 'ts' discussed in the second paragraph of the main page? I suspect there are linguist terms for the 'explosive' and probably good links into the wikipedia. Thanks, Acuster 15:39, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

OK, here you go: the actual /ts/ sound of Setswana is an ejective consonant, more specifically the alveolar ejective affricate. 'Alveolar' indicates that the place of articulation is the alveolar ridge (the part that your tongue touches when you produce a 'ts'). 'Ejective' means that the glottis is closed and that the sound is produced using the air that is left in the mouth cavity (see glottalic consonant to find out how to produce one). Finally, 'affricates' are sounds that begin like a stop and end like a fricative (in this case, 't' and 's' together). Ejectives are relatively widespread in Africa (numerous other Bantu languages have them, as has the Afro-Asiatic Amharic of Ethiopia and several Khoisan languages).
The Tswana pronounciation of tsetse would be rendered in IPA as [ts’e.ts’e] (the apostroph signifies the ejective articulation, the period is the syllable boundary). Technically, both the ejective /ts/ and the English pronounciation of /ts/ are explosives in the sense that air is pushed out of the mouth cavity (another term for this is 'egressive'); but in this case, I think it's best to call it an ejective. Hope this clarifies it a bit! — mark ✎ 22:28, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Cole (1995 p. 173) indeed lists Tsétsé (adding that he attested the word in the Tawana, Ngwato, Kwena, Ngwaketse and Southeast dialects of Setswana). He specifically mentions that "[f]rom Setswana, English has adopted, among others, (...) tsetse-fly." (Cole, p. 11).

Reference: Cole, Desmond T. (1995) Setswana - Animals and Plants (Setswana - Ditshedi le ditlhare) Gaborone: The Botswana Society. — mark ✎ 14:26, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

How do the speakers of the various African languages differentiate the diffrent flies? Do they have names like River Tsetse or Sickness Tsetse? Hatchet Winged Tsetse?

[edit] Outline for Pending Edits

This is an Outline of the article, with suggested changes.
  Headings end with a colon, everything else is numbered and indicates 
  a suggested edit or a note.
  • Introduction:
    • Tsetse are:
    • Tsetse of interest because:
    • The word:
    • Tsetse are like...but different: +like house flies +distinguished by four characteristics, 2 are readliy visible
    • Tsetse fossil record:
  • Biology:
    • Intro:
    • Morpho:
      1. Disection technique---with a diagram showing how to get ovries out and count ovarioles.
    1. Anatomy: Add external and internal anatomy. With diagrams.
    • Lifecycle (i.e. Development):
      1. Development of the sperm
      2. Development of oocytes
      3. Copulation and Sperm Storage
      4. Ovulation
      5. Embryonic Development
      6. Larviposition
      7. Puparial Development
      8. Emergence
      9. Teneral Growth
      10. Mature Adulthood
    • Metabolism:
 & Also edit Metabolism page and/or create Metabolic pathways
      1. Overall metabolism: food; body composition; excrement; gas exchange; summary
      2. ?metabolic pathways/biochemistry?
      3. ?Focus on flight metabolism, energy output.
    • General Biology: delete section; move info elsewhere.
  • Systematics: (Re-organize)
- Picture
    • Systematics problematic
    • Placement of the genus:
 + Animalia -> Insecta -> Diptera
 + Brachycera -> Cyclorypha
 + Glossinidae -> Glossina
 + 3 sub-genuses
    • The list of species: Change to a table. Check against Leak, 1999
 & Also consider Fly,Diptera
    1. History of discovery and naming
    2. Genetics:
 + sequencing effort by: http://bioresearch.ac.uk/browse/mesh/D014370.html
 + article  http://www.mrc.ac.za/mrcnews/sep2004/tsetse.htm
  1. Tsetse Ecology: ADD THIS! (see comment in the current text)
  1. History- ADD THIS!
    1. Pre-History
    2. History
    3. Discovery of the flies by european science
    4. Implication as vector
  • Tsetse as vectors of trypanosomiasis:
 & Also edit:
   trypanosomiasis
    -remove redirect to sleeping sickness
    -add animal tryps
    -add american tryps
   sleeping sickness
    ?add organization (sectioning) to article?
    -discuss movement/development/reprduction within hosts
    -remove gratuitous plug for SIT, talk about med/ent campaigns.
   trypanosoma
   trypanosome
   nagana
   sura
    • Human African tryps
      1. Add estimate impact
    • Tsetse vectored animal african tryps
      1. Add estimated impact and methods of evalute 'land that could be opened'
      2. lower productivity of trypanotolerant cattle reference
  • Tsetse Control:
    1. add discussion of issues and problems which could be applied to each control strategy.
    2. Add history
    • Control Techniques:
 + Add a presentation for each- History, Evaluation, Current use status
      • Slaughter:
      • Land clearing:
      • Pesticides:
        1. Tied to the history of pesticides
        2. Early inorganic pesticides
        3. The organic pesticides and campaigns
          1. Aerial campaigns
          2. Ground based campaigns
        1. Modern pesticides
          1. Pour-ons
      • Trapping:
        1. Community based campaigns.
      • SIT
 & Edit:
   Sterile atomic fly
    +Suggest renaming b/c not current or scientific: what kind of a name is that? What could it become?
   irradiation
    +add discussion of reproductive sterilization
   sterilization
    +add non-surgical removal of reproductive capacity
   International_Atomic_Energy_Agency
    +add the problem with advocacy for atomic use in a development setting
    +add a section on criticism/harm
    +add a budget and cost-benefit evaluation
    +add a discussion of accountability
      • Actual Projects: Historical and ongoing
        1. Southern Rift Valley Tsetse Eradication Project, Ethiopia: SREP web site
  1. Research Organizations: ADD THIS.
  1. Control Organizations: ADD THIS!
  1. Specimen Collections: ADD THIS!


  1. Organizations: (move above)


  • References: redo in footnote form


[edit] Issues with Edits to the Text

[edit] Requested move to Tsetse from current Tsetse fly

The older usage is antiquated and redundant, see the second paragraph of the current page for details. We don't talk about jaguar mammals no need for the redundant fly. The usage of tsetse fly is a classic example of the early incomplete incorporation of a foreign word. Part of the role of an encyclopedia is to clarify the meaning and usage of words and ideas—the suggested move would serve in that role. —acuster 22:03, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

  • Oppose, because "tsetse fly" is the most common usage. —Michael Z. 2005-03-31 23:59 Z
    • common really depends on who we are talking about. It would be true of the British public but less true, in my experience, of Ghanaians or of scientists. We certainly don't have any good data. Acuster 17:26, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • Support. Using the google test (which is not perfect, but it is something) to get a rough idea of what common usage might be, I got about 62,500 results for "tsetse fly", about 33,100 for "tsetse flies", and about 126,000 for "tsetse". Jonathunder 02:36, 2005 Apr 2 (UTC)
    • Heh, but that only leaves approx. 30,000 which had tsetse and not either of the first two (assuming perfect overlap and other generous considerations). :-) Acuster 05:02, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
    • Yeah, that would imply "Tsetse" alone is not the common use. Should I change my vote? (Of course, the google test is not perfect, for a number of reasons.) Jonathunder 05:09, 2005 Apr 2 (UTC)
    • Oh, please keep your support. It's all I currently have! Your reason should primarily be that the single word is more elegant, modern, easier to write (/me suddenly imagines how many fly/flies it would have taken to get through the past ten years with the other usage.), and generally better. Acuster 05:15, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • Oppose - My own google test (just typing "tsetse" in) results in a page full of sites noting it as a Tsetse fly, including numerous encyclopedias. violet/riga (t) 23:03, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
    • Most of those sites are tivial and some are copies of the old wikipedia entry.— Acuster 18:40, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Tsetse fly is simply the most commonly used term. If it is a 'classic example of incomplete incorporation of a foreign word', so be it — Wikipedia should be descriptive, not prescriptive. — mark ✎ 23:18, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)


So far:

  • Anti:3
    • common usage - The widespread and possibly dominant usage is to juxtapose the two words.
  • Pro:1
    • redundant- Tsetse now means Glossina and no other organism. To call them flies as well is redundant.
    • trivial- Any search for either term will pick up the other.
    • lacks elegance- The repetitive use of fly/flies in a long text makes writing ugly.
    • political- The use emerges historically in texts that are deeply racist including outright spews against africa (Glascow who starts his book on tsetse "The Africans have produced nothing...") or, more subtley, units of measure such as the fly boy day in reference to the black african employees doing the actual work. The redudant grammar is, to me, deeply and fundamentally part of that same tradition.


Hey everyone, I'm still learning the ropes here at wikipedia so I'm unclear how to navigate the project's politics to resolve my personal requirements with the desire of the community. A concensus is slowly emerging for keeping the term "Tsetse fly" but I'm incapable of reconciling myself to this, for political, aesthetic, and other reasons.

The only resolution I can see is for me to

  1. move most of the material that I have recently added here to Glossina
  2. reduce this article back to a brief entry

This resolution has the side benefit of letting me make the article as scientifically rigourous as I want it to be without worry for the lay person's attention span. (Ideally, the two articles would eventually become well tailored, complimentary entries but that's beyond the scope of my current ambition.)

I regret not being able to use the Tsetse namespace because I find it more elegant than using Glossina. I'm also a bit disappointed to be trumped by people who have not contributed to the page itself but such it goes—a trivial price compared to working within the system of the project as a whole.

— adrian ✎ 22:28, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I've commented on this points at your Talk page. — mark ✎ 23:14, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it be moved. With the move not being supported I have taken it off WP:RM. I sympathise with Acuster because he has worked hard on this article and therefore offer to rename it should more support be drummed up in the future - just let me know. violet/riga (t) 09:07, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)


[edit] The disease, host and vector table

i wanted to make an extra cell for parasite reservoirs, but i never get into this HTML. m.20050429

Hello,

Thanks for trying to contribute but please take a little more care with this page. I have reverted your edits for the reasons detailed below (confusing layout, incomplete information, incorrect table construction, adding to an already large table). Your edits are truely focused on the nature of the disease rather than the fly. Affected animals relate to the economic importance of the vector whereas the reservoir species are not directly related to tsetse but more to the dynamics of the disease. I would encourage you to edit the Trypanosomiasis page instead.

Your edits use a confusing layout. The use of the slash symbol "/" does not make the table any more understandable.

Your edits only targeted two rows out of the whole table. Adding this partial information makes the entry less "encyclopedic". It's better to leave partial information out in order to maintain the clarity of the information which is present rather than trying to cram into the entry a whole lot of disjointed pieces of information.

The table, as you have left it, was not correctly formated. Perhaps this is what your comment above was intended to mean. Please, if you are going to participate, take the time to communicate clearly what you are doing. I really can't be sure what your comment above is supposed to mean.

The table is already large, possibly too big, and your additions do not help the situation. I would suggest designing a new table to convey the information you are trying to get across or, as suggested above, that you expand another entry such as Trypanosomiasis or create a new page, such as Animal Trypanosomiasis (Nagana)

For now, I have reverted your changes. Acuster 00:27, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Miscelaneous Questions and Discussion about Tsetse

Hello acuster (and others ?),


Thank you for Your intense work on this article, i think its already an excellent one.

avc> Thanks, and thanks for your interest.


  • I still think that the relation: glossina species / natural host - "accidental" host - reservoir host is fundamental for the understanding of tsetse ecology (and so for disease epidemiology also), but I agree we can add this table later when probably more facts are gathered from newest sources. Meanwhile I have put some older data on the german site.

avc> Yes, this is important. Belongs in the not yet existing 'ecology' section.


I have a lot of questions and remarks:


  • First, I find the coloured graphic most misleading. A short time visitor will keep this picture in his head and loose his precaution with tsetse who are looking much more colourless.The pic might have motivated someone at http://flexicon.doccheck.com/ to include the photo of a normal fly as a tsetse ! See colourless pic on the german wikipedia page, please.

avc> I'm not too worried. The colour graphic pre-dates my contributions and I suspect it's standard for species pages.


  • The size of a tsetse ?

avc> "large" :-) Actually, one would wish we had data on this for every species but no. I can't even place them in order although I have come up with a working hierarchy of the common species in the literature. Their sizes range from that of a small house-fly to that of a large horse fly (although horse flies are less thin and elongated than tsetse.


  • The life span of tsetse ?

avc> Females are known to have survived 270 days in the lab but the average longevity in the wild is probably much shorter. There are some new articles by John Hargrove that I need to read to be able to make a good statement about the life span. No one knows for sure so we have to do experiments and try to figure this out which is quite hard, one of the hardest questions about tsetse and critical to understand the change in numbers of the populations.


  • I would like to know, if a blood licking tsetse also sits with her wings folded. - If so, it should be expressed. By the way, left wing on right wing or the other way ?

avc> yes. The resting position is assumed whenever they are not flying. Don't know which is on top and if that is always the same in every species, but it's a question that has occurred to me. I'll ask around.


  • I have opposing informations how tsetse get attracted to / find hosts!

german wiki says by visual sight only ! http://flexicon.doccheck.com/ says olfactory/ Co2, Azeton, Octanal only !

avc> We are not sure. A current model (Hargrove and Packer, 1993, Bull Ent Res. 83:29-46) sets this up in two ways. First they make see a host nearby and fly to feed on them directly. Second, they may fly around, find an odour plume and fly upwind to the host. It seems like both are possible and therefore both probably happen. In what ratios, and what other methods of host finding exist, we don't know.


  • It is mentioned on the german zebra wiki, that they got their stripes by evolutional selection,

because tsetse cannot see them with their facette eyes, so i would like to add the frequence/ number of facettes of the tsetse eye.

avc> That sounds like a nice, but probably false, idea. Probably if you see zebra at dusk in the dry season in the grasslands, the stripes are perfect cammouflage. The question about eyes probably belongs on the general insect page or on a separate page because the compound eye of the insect is fascinating. I've never seen any info particular to tsetse. "lots" ;-)


  • I read somewhere, that tsetse are very elastic insects, hard to beat eaven by the tail of an animal.

The force to hit a tsetse should be described.

avc> The elastic part is generally about their 'teneral' state---just after they emerge from the ground as new adults. Until they feed, they are very soft and have other characteristics that are 'elastic'. That they are hard to kill with an animal tail only makes sense since that's one thing they have been dealing with for a few million years. The force to kill a fly? It's the same as for other flies. A fly swatter will kill a tsetse. They are big flies and so it takes a good hit but they are not particularly different from other flies.


  • Please i am very interested about the symbionts, because this is the case also found in the

vectors of american trypanosomiasis, and they have a virus also.

avc> I don't know much about this yet. I've seen lots of pieces but have not yet tried to understand how they fit together.


  • Do tsetses have deseases, parasites and natural enemies ?

avc> Yes. Birds, ants, fungi, and other things eat them. However, there is not a lot understood about this yet and I have not yet gotten a good feel for this. Belongs in the 'Ecology' section which I hope to write.


  • From (German) Meyers Lexikon 1909:

"Tsetse.... are most abundant in the rain season, but always on strictly bordered, often only some hundred meters wide streches, between them there are completely tsetse-free tracts. They ..... stiching particularly at an overcast sky and humid air." Is this still confirmed ?

avc> No. You have to understand that before 1909 moving around Africa was *hard.* Scientists tended to work in one particular area. That sounds like a description of "riverine" flies which do indeed stick closely to the rivers. Will be part of the 'ecology' section.


  • If there is a reliable repellent for humans, it should be mentioned ( DEET ? ).

avc> Well, the colonial brits believed that wearing nice, clean, pressed, very white (the only important part) suits would reduce their appeal. I picture this somewhat ironically as the conclusion of a different historical period full of its presumptions, biases, race relations, economic disparities and other complexities. I don't know of any substance that acts reliably as a 'repellant' but a physical barrier (well manitained mosquito net) will always work. There are large campaings to spray houses with DDT throughout the continent against mosquitoes and probably this also kills tsetse but I have no idea if it repels them.


Thank you, m. 20050507

avc> Thanks for your interest. Adrian Custer, August 6th 2005, Valldemossa, Spain.


Thank you for your extensive answers. I will answer later. For now I want to document usefull links here, which i would like to read if i had more time. nearly forget this one:

--213.7.155.173 04:32, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

  • Jeffrey Waage has made the zebra/tetse theory around 1980, because zebras are infected not so often

like other wild animals:

  • http://www.devbio.com/printer.php?ch=1&id=5 with reference:
  • Waage, J. K. 1981. How the zebra got its stripes: biting flies as selective agents in the evolution of zebra coloration. J. Entom. Soc. South Afric. 44: 351-358.
  • Waage,J.: The evolution of insect/vertebrate associations. Biological Journal of the Linnean

Society of London 12 (1979) 187- 224.

  • Waage,J.: Curse of the vampire: The evolution of blood- sucking insects. Antenna 4 (1980) 112-116.

m.--213.7.155.169 23:46, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Etymology

That blurb about "tsetse fly" being "a redundancy" was cute, but wrong. There are many kinds of flies in this world, and most of them are named in English with a descriptive name + "fly", e.g. "blowfly", "housefly", "horsefly", "mayfly", etc. Thus "tsetse fly" is a good English name for this African insect, and "tsetse" alone is not at all likely to "become dominant" outside of the research community. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.39.182.234 (talk • contribs) .

No, I think it is right. Translated from Tswana, "tsetse fly" means "fly fly", which is redundant because "fly" is repeated (they are just in two different languages). It's like saying "pizza pie", redundant because "pizza" comes from an Italian word meaning "pie". Schzmo 21:24, 10 July 2006 (UTC)


The text seems to state that there are three instars and also that there are 5 larval stages. which is correct? 194.151.165.92 10:42, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

avc: hello. there are five stages total: three instars (two full and one partial) *inside* the female parent and then two more instars (the rest of the thrid, fourth and fifth) inside the puparium.

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