Talk:Triple spiral

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Pray, do tell how it is that "the position of the sun forms a tight spiral every three monthes"[sic]? Absent an explanation for this, I feel inclined to eventually delete the whole paragraph.... AnonMoos 19:56, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Explan: If you record the point that the sun strikes at midday every day you see that it progresses in an expanding circle - i.e. a spiral. The spiral then reverses after three months and inverts so you get four spirals over a twelve month period ergo value of three monthes hence my gestation point. Sorry about the bad spelling of 'months' Pydos 08:52, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Ok, this makes a little more sense -- though the sun's path is actually more of a spherical helix (not a spiral in the ordinary sense), which is more tightly wound at the extreme north and south points (near the solstices), and more loosely wound at the equator (the equinoxes). Half the path is out of view from a single point on earth, and the path only "inverts" in any very meaningful sense every six months (not every three months) -- and since there's always a huge gaping 134° arc diameter center in the hole of each helix/spiral, the term "tight" may have misleading connotations. However, now I know how to edit the article for clarity (which I didn't before), so thanks. AnonMoos 15:50, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

cool-so it's sorted then. Sorry about the confusion Pydos 11:46, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Some Serious issues with this page

Firstly, and perhaps most importantly, the opening sentence on this page... The Celtic triple spiral or triskele symbol is sometimes called the spiral of life and was found in the Newgrange site from the Bronze Age in Ireland. ...is completely wrong. Well first of all, Newgrange comes from the Stone Age (Neolithic) not the Bronze Age. And thus, the Triple spiral is Not Celtic, it is Pre-Celtic. The symbol was etched out on the stones at Newgrange about 2,500 years before the Celts set foot in Ireland. You simply cannot call the Triple spiral symbol from Newgrange a Celtic symbol, the Celts may have later begun to use the symbol, but the people who originally created it were not Celts. When you go to visit Newgrange that's one of the first things they tell you.

Another issue is the somewhat fanciful claims made about what the Celts believed, there is certainly some truth to what is said, but the language is that of a Neo-pagan publication, not an archeological encyclopaedia. For one thing is there evidence that the Celts used this Triskele symbol for "3 millennia" as claimed here? I've added a disputed accuracy template to the article, as this really needs an overhaul. --Hibernian 23:44, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm wondering whether this page is even needed at all. The small bits of verifiable, accurate info here are already covered at Triskelion. Perhaps one or two sentences from this, and an image of the Newgrange triple spiral, could be incorporated over there and this article either deleted or turned into a redirect? --Kathryn NicDhàna 06:34, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't have the knowledge about archaeological dating or whatnot to clean up problems in the article page, but this is a symbol of moderate significance, whose typical form is rather different from the most typical form of the Triskelion (though the triple spiral and triskelion are lumped together for some purposes). Also, the triskelion has many many meanings and uses, while the triple spiral is more limited... AnonMoos 07:02, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

I think the article deserves to stay, but it needs to be cleaned up and made accurate. It should emphasize the Origin of the Triple Spiral (i.e. Newgrange), then it should talk about possible Celtic uses of the symbol, then about how it is used in the modern world (as a symbol wrongly associated only with the Celts), and perhaps about how modern artists use it. Then maybe we can have something about how Neo-pagans interpret it. --Hibernian 19:38, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup

I've deleted some of the most obvious problems and expanded on the more solid information. For the moment anyway I left that last paragraph in, but unless someone can procure other publication data on the book so we can evaluate its reliability, we may have to lose that paragraph. It's interesting, but needs fuller citation, imho. --Kathryn NicDhàna 03:05, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Your edits have made the article better. On the book, I don't know that we have to verify that everything in the book is true, just that the book says it. There's an actual article page on the book which might as well be linked. AnonMoos 03:14, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I think it's allot better now. --Hibernian 15:57, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Leave solar symbol in

I have no idea whether it actually was a solar symbol in ancient times, but it's pretty indisputable that (in certain visual forms) it often has been considered a solar symbol in recent centuries. See the Uriel's Machine paragraph in this article, the link http://altreligion.about.com/library/glossary/symbols/bldefstriskele.htm , article Flag of Ingushetia, even Image:Roissy_triskelion_iron_ring_signet.png , etc. etc.

My semi-arbitrary Google-searching even turned up a possible scholarly reference (if someone has JSTOR access):

Sun-Symbols of the Tomb-Sculptures at Loughcrew, Ireland, Illustrated by Similar Figures in Scandinavian Rock-Tracings

George T. Flom

American Anthropologist, New Series, Vol. 26, No. 2 (Apr. - Jun., 1924), pp. 139-159

— AnonMoos 21:55, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

As long as there are reliable sources for it it's fine with me :-) --Kathryn NicDhàna 01:00, 25 October 2006 (UTC)