Talk:Tranny chaser

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This discussion regarded some people trying to push a "genderfuck" interpretation of a term that mainly as relevance to transsexual women. The following are the highlights of that debate.


Bold textItalic textI don't give a rat's ass if the discussion was settled in January. You add zero value to this discussion and it's very pathetic of you to call me homophobic. That's so predictable, when fags don't like other people's view, they bring up the homophobia issue. Plus, this has nothing to do with the gay community, this has to do with queens in boy's drag. NOBODY CAN CONFUTE THE ARGUMENT THAT GAY MEN LIKE COCKS

Wouldn't 'queens in boy's drag' just be straight acting gays? Who actually make up the majority of the gay community? Agian, you seem to be greatly detached from the gay community and are taking hatefully based on gay stereotypes. Especially with you saying that all gay men want 'cocks in their asses'. There's actually an extreamly large ammount of gay males who have no interest in anal penetration, varying in reception, penetration, or both. It's around about 25% even. Honestly, you seem to be completely ignorant on this topic and are just talking out of hate.

I didn't say that gays are all interested in anal penetration, I said that all gays like cocks, no matter what, even if they don't want them in their asses, they want them in their mouths. Try to contradict me if you can. Try to convince me that there are gays who don't care about cocks. You are the ignorant here. Just visit gaydar and see what the recurrent pattern in the gay community is: they like gays who don't look like gays, they are all effeminate in a higher or lower degree. And I don't care if they claim to be straight acting, if they are muscular, there's always a feminine touch and you can tell. In fact, I spot gays miles away, even when they try to look straight. Go to gaydar and see that there is no single gay who don't like cocks. You are just a stupid, idiot, disgusting cock-obsessed psycho

Calling me a 'Stupid, Idiot, Disgusting Cock-Obsessed Psycho' is inappropriate for this venue and your comments still wreak of homophobia. I also wonder what you think of gay identified FtMs...

Tamara-who claims to be a 'gender fuck' is introducing her personal gender ideology. In the transsexual community, "tranny chaser" refers to a person who is interested in engaging in sex with pre-operative transsexual women. That's common knowledge. Most often these men congregate in larger urban areas, maintain websites that advise each other on how to find transsexual women and are particularly offensive to transsexual women of color (supposedly have larger genitalia). Tamara admits that she knows nothing about any of this, but still prefers to vandalize the term 'tranny chaser' by applying her preferred term of "transsensual." That term is not common in most transgendered or transsexual communities. Tamara, knows this, but insists upon having it her way. Therefore, Tamara is attempting to introduce her own brand of "gender politics" because of her andrygynous preferences. The definition as it now stands seems appropriate. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.36.164.154 (talk • contribs) 20:56, 21 December 2005.

I never claimed to be a "gender fuck" or to have "androgynous preferences", despite the fact that you keep bringing it up to attack and discredit me. Although I do not identify as genderfuck or genderqueer, you seem to think of it as offensive in the same way you keep trying to offend people by calling them "homosexual". I agree that "tranny chaser" is common but also offensive. "Transsensual" was not my term but Sonjaa's. If you read my above statement, you will find out my opinions on the matter. My main problem was the use of highly offensive statements and generalizations. I have tried to find a compromise by accepting the move to Tranny chaser and adding a statement that the term primarily concerns non-trans men who are attracted to pre/non-op trans women. What I will not accept is statements like All tranny chasers share one common denominator: they all want to explore homosexual relations and perform the 'bottom' role -- they want to be sodomized log (especially with no source for such a broad statement). Perhaps you feel that these men are predatory but your NPOV violations would apply to remarks against any group. If someone claimed that homosexuals were dangerous child molesters or that Mexicans were undermining American culture (both popular claims), it would be considered vandalism and removed. The same goes for your vandalizations. Foxxygirltamara 20:13, 22 December 2005

There has been a recurring problem with the user 68.36.164.154 and now 130.156.3.254 vandalizing this page, Tranny Chaser, Tranny chaser and Trannie Chaser (which all now redirect to Transsensual). At least one of these vandals appears to be the owner of a website called Tranny Chasers Anonymous, which seeks to "expose" men attracted to transwomen as being predatory repressed homosexuals. The language used on the site is derogatory and similar language has been used on the related articles. This user has also vandalized an author of this page's user profile in regards to this issue. In an email from this individual, she writes "Evein if you and your little gender fuck nazi idiot friends manage to block us at wikipedia, our site will still continute to educate trannsexual women and draw support from OUR community: Not yours.". Hopefully, all vandalism to these pages will be corrected as soon as they are made in an attempt to maintain NPOV. Foxxygirltamara 05:53, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

This is actually what Tamara really thinks about transsexuals and please note her announcement that she is indeed a "gender" fuck. Her concepts or politics are promoted and accepted mainly by foxxyboi as he's known as. http://p218.ezboard.com/fthetransgenderboardsfrm30.showMessageRange?topicID=292.topic&start=21&stop=40 "the whole idea of hacking apart a penis, turning it inside out, digging a hole in the crotch and stuffing it back in just so you can trick guys into thinking it's a vagina and not a mutilated penis. just stick with the penis -- they're more fun anyway." She also declares herself a gender queer or gender fuck: "I don't really think I fit in with other girls but I don't really want to be a boy either. This is why I call myself "genderqueer". Sometimes I prefer to use the prounouns "ze/hir/hirs" instead of "she/her/hers" but that's what everybody calls me in real life anyway so I'm not going to get all up on your ass about it if you use female pronouns for me. I'm a drag king wannabe too." http://foxxygirltamara.livejournal.com/64079.html#cutid1

If Tamara is a genderfuck, she/he has no right to extend her parameters to transwomen. Tamara is obsessed with cocks, obviously, and she doesn't accept the idea that someone is uncomfortable with it. The way she describes the sexual reassignment surgery is just disgusting.

And more for foxxyboi: foxxygirltamara Member (8/18/06 1:45 am) Reply Re: Androgynous?

I identify as genderqueer / bigendered / androgyne. It happens. I am hormonally-modified and live cross-gendered but don't identify 100% as such. I was out as genderqueer before and after I chose to transition.

God doesn't like straight lines.

I've been using this screenname for the past 5 years so I should probably think of a new one that doesn't have the word "girl" in it, nor refer to furries

So much for telling the truth about one's agendas...

Attacking or questioning one's transsexual status does not make this article any less valid. The NPOV no where says that 'Only transsexuals are qualified to write articles relating to transsexuality on the wikipedia.' Attacking the person who prevented this article from being homophobic and biased doesn't help your case.

Well, it's official:'''Foxxyboi has come out as a gay man. That's cool. We said that all along and wish him well as he moves into the gay male community. However, it's wrong for him to inject his own personal hatred of transgendered peoples or try to express his genderfuck ways as those of transsexual men or women at this site. Foxxyboi wrote:

As for "easier to be a girl than a boy", I suppose you have realize that I was in a very dangerous position prior to transition because I was such an effeminate gay boy and suffered a lot of harassment and physical abuse for my personality. With a few subtle changes with hairstyle and clothing and a name change, I could avoid practically all harassment stemming from my effeminacy. My detransition is an attempt to reassert my pride in being a femme gay man without slinking away and hiding in being seen as a straight girl"

"Isn't it likely that my transition was due to internalized homophobia embedded in me by my strongly homophobic parents as well as society? I went "femme + liking boys = girl" when the reality is "femme + boy + liking boys = femme boy who likes boys = gay boy". Anyway, I'm not in high school anymore so it should be a lot easier... right?"

All of this discussion is available at venusenvy.[1]

I've moved this page to tranny chaser, which is what they're actually known as. Searching for "tranny chaser" on Google comes up with 26,100 relevant hits. Searching for "transsensual" turns up 646 hits, many of which are not relevant. The former may be somewhat derogatory, but it's the common term; the latter is a neologism that makes no sense whatsoever. Ambi 08:35, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

That was my problem with it. I have added in a note that some see it as derogatory and that "admirer" or "transsensual" are preferred. I hadn't heard of "transsenusal" before this article. It's a nice neutral term but it's just not in common usage. Hopefully we can come to some sort of agreement with the person who has been vandalizing the article. Foxxygirltamara 09:08, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

(UTC)

-- Hi! I'm the one who wanted to add the term transsensual or transensual to the article. I don't really use the term myself, but I've seen it used many times as a sort of more neutral or politically correct way to say somebody who is attracted to trans people. I've also seen it used a for people who are attracted to FTM people. I believe the word should at least be added to the article.--Sonjaaa 23:05, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a tool for spreading neologisms. Ambi 14:59, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
Couldn't we just discribe it in a literal and logical sense as being a 'heterosexual penis fetish'? It seems pretty neutral and factual way to discribe a 'tranny chaser'. It also doesn't reek of homophobia, paranoia or excessive liberalism. -Ashley —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.196.131.95 (talk • contribs) 04:29, 30 December 2005.


The problem with terms is that they might be connotative or denotative, or that a denotative term might turn into a connotative one, or vice versa, through usage. Words evolve and change, just like people. In this specific case, tranny chaser designs, in our community, a man who is attracted to a pre-op transsexual woman BECAUSE of her male genitalia. PERIOD. A man who is attracted to male genitalia is homosexual, even though they try to deny it. There is nothing wrong with being homosexual, but that's not what TG women like myself want. I'm satisfied with the lexical juxtaposition "tranny chaser" because we needed something to describe, in an immediate and vivid way, a certain type of men we should be leery of. There are a lot of things to say about this issue, but the most relevant point is that these tranny chasers are in denial and need to see a penis attached to a woman (and that's how tranny chaser perceive us) to deceive themselves into thinking that they are straight. Let's set the record straight. A heterosexual man is someone who might be attracted to us, but who completely ignores our male genitalia and considers them as a de-sexualized part of our body (like the elbow or the wrist) in need of future corrective surgery. A real man doesn't care if our penis is big or small, functional or non functional, because he's not attracted to it. For a tranny chaser, by contrast, the penis is the "conditio sine qua non". This is what "straight" means. "Transsensual" is a kind of euphemism, I don't like this term at all, it's full of hypocrisy. This is such a contradictory situation. First and foremost, people with gender dysphoria like myself are very uncomfortable with their penis and become much more uncomfortable when it becomes the lover's object of attraction. How could tranny chasers possibly say that they are heterosexuals when all they want is to do a "fellatio in ore" and be sodomized? Transsexual women don't transition to screw men's asses, really! The other contradiction is that tranny chasers look for shemales (a very offensive, disgusting term) a mythical figure, a stunning feminine girl with a huge functional penis. And this is a contradiction, indeed, or a mythical figure, first of all because hormone theraphy renders the penis non-functional, and then because what's the use of going through the hell of transition (with surgical procedures, risks etc) if a tranny chaser seeks you for your male part? Another distinguishing trait of tranny chasers is that they suffer from BDD (body dysmorphic disorder). They have a distorted, unrealistic and non-realistic picture of their physical appearence. They are very demanding and exacting when it comes to the beauty of the transsexual woman and want a transsexual woman be more beautiful and more feminine than a genetic female, but they are most often average to ugly aging men, are going bald, are overweight and consider themselves very attractive or handsome. A lot of tranny chasers just don't click with genetic females (obviously, because they have a homosexual orientation) and consider transsexual women as easy, substandard women and want to treat us accordingly. In other words, most tranny chasers are losers refused by genetic women and want us as a substitute. The lead a double life, are married or in a long term relationship with a genetic woman, but look for trannies with huge penis to fulfil their insane obsessions.

Discription of a tranny chaser? Do you even know what you just said? Let's quote this... "Another distinguishing trait of tranny chasers is that they suffer from BDD (body dysmorphic disorder)." Okay, let's read about Body dysmorphic disorder. Essentually, they're convinced their ugly. Then you said "but they are most often avarage to ugly aging men, are going bald, are overweight and consider themselves very attractive or handsome." So, they are people who are convinced they are ugly as a result of a mental disorder. However, they are also ugly people who are convinced they are attractive? That's entirely contradictory. "They are very demanding and exacting when it comes to the beauty of the transsexual woman and want a transsexual woman be more beautiful and more feminine than a genetic female," So do most married men who wish their wives looked more like the girls on the covers of Maxim. This is the problem with you transsexuals and your gender politics, you forget to use common sense before saying anything. -Ashley

Excuse me, you missed my point. BDD is a distortion of your body image, for the worse or for the better. In the case of tranny chasers, they don't think they are ugly when they are handsome, on the contrary, they think they are handsom when they are very ugly, i.e. they have a distorted perception of their physical appearence! That's what BDD is all about! We always read stories about people who suffer from BDD and consider themselves to be more unattractive than what they really are, but we never hear of opposite stories, that is, people who are delusional and consider themselves stunning when they look horrible. This is the typical case of tranny chasers. They look at TS women as substandard women and want to treat us like garbage and think that we will accept anything and we have different standards of beauty. They think that just because we are not genetic women, we will consider them attractive. And it's ridiculous to make the comparison with married men who wish their wives looked more like the girls of the covers of Maxim. Your point doesn't make any sense. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 151.50.246.31 (talk • contribs) 23:19, 30 December 2005.

No. No it's not. There is nothing about people with BDD having a positive body image when they themselves are 'ugly'. You do not see mention of people with such a positive image because that is not BDD. I have the DSM-IV-TR sitting here on my desk. You read the wiki entry which actually lists the three diagnosis criterion for 300.7 Body Dysmorphic Disorder. You have no place on the wikipedia if you are just going to make stuff up that is obviously false and claim them as fact. -Ashley —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.196.131.95 (talk • contribs) 23:57, 30 December 2005.

Then, let's go back to the etymology of the word "dysmorphophobia". Dys is the prefix which indicates an undesirable state (as in , dysphoria which is the opposite of euphoria), morpho means "shape" (as in "morphology", "morpheme") "phobia" means fear (as in claustrophobia). Dysmorphophobia is a word from greek derivation. Of course, and as I have already put it, words evolve and sometimes terms containing phobia do not really mean "fear" but something else. In fact, homophobia, at the present day, doesn't literally mean that someone is frightened by homosexuals but something else. Here in Europe there are psychotherapists who adopt the term dysmorphophobia to describe people who have a distorted image of themselves, and this might be for the worse or for the better, i.e. not only to describe patients who perceive themselves as unattractive (or tend to magnify a physical flaw, such as people who suffer from anorexia nervosa) but also the opposite. BDD or dysmorphophoby is the umbrella term (hyperonim) which includes other hyponims (such as bigorexia). I'm not making stuff up! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 151.50.246.31 (talk • contribs) 11:10, 31 December 2005.

Let's say that since tranny chasers don't consider transsexual women as they consider genetic women, they think (mistakenly) that they can get away with a lot and that we have lower standards.


Do the statements repeatedly made that "tranny chasers" are closeted homosexuals, are "ugly", have BDD, etc. have any sources or are they simply opinion or original research? Foxxygirltamara 06:51, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Dear Foxy, it doesn't take a genius to understand that if a man searches a pre-op or non-op TS woman for her penis, this man is a closeted gay! Do you really think that we go through hell to become woman to use our penis? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 151.50.246.31 (talk • contribs) 12:11, 2 January 2006.

No, it suggests that our labels of gender and sexuality are too vague to describe the actual possibilities. There's more to sexuality than a penis (would you think straight men who like dildos are closeted gay, and gay women who use dildos are closeted straight?). Even then, referring to such people as "gay" is far too vague, since it would imply they are attracted people with penises in general, which is not true. Mdwh 16:41, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
So you are suggesting that it is self-evident fact that "chasers" are closeted gay men (actually, "closeted" just means you aren't out to everyone, not that you're confused)? If it is self-evident fact, why does it need to be an encyclopedia? Wouldn't it be just as self-evident to say that a man who choses not to use his penis during sex is still a man and is not instantly turned into a woman by disliking his penis? This also presupposes that transsexual women dislike using their penis during sex, which you state flippantly but which is not self-evident and which is contrary to experience. So, if your accusations are so self-evident, where are your sources? Foxxygirltamara 21:55, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Closeted and confused, both things, because tranny chasers are not out, they don't like their relatives and friends knowing that they want their sagging rears fucked.

It's far too easy to refute an argument by resorting to extreme exemplifications, as in the case of straight men who like dildos. The point we are trying to make here is that a truly transsexual woman, affected by gender dysphoria, feels like a woman and WANTS to be treated accordingly. That's legitimate, especially after enduring such a devastating process as transition. Now, what do you think is the part of our body we are most uncomfortable with? The penis, exactly. And it is very disgusting for us to be conceived as chicks with dicks. Do you really think that someone who feels like a woman and goes through hell to look like a woman wants to sodomize a man? Of course not! A tranny chaser will tell you that if he dind't like the penis, he would probably choose a genetic woman and not a TS one, to which I retort that if I was comfortable with my male genitalia, I would have sexual intercourses with gay guys and would not transition at all. What's the point of transitioning if I liked to sodomize men? And the most ridiculous part of the story is that these tranny chasers will tell you that they are straight, when they've been sodomized hundreds of times, in every possible circumstance. It goes without saying that they are closeted gays who want non-op TS women as alibi to cope with their homosexuality. They want to have homosexual intercourses in "heterosexual" disguise. Now, the fact that there are thousands of TS women who sodomize tranny chasers, out there, doesn't mean that they like to do so. If someone needs to save money for SRS and works as an escort, will obviously have to do things she doesn't like. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 151.50.246.31 (talk • contribs) 17:30, 2 January 2006.

You know, in my experiance, homosexuals are attracted to men. Attracted to things that look like men, act like men, and dress like men. In watching Queer As Folk I noticed an absense of men with breasts, hips (well, I guess most trans don't have hips, do they? Heh), wear womens clothing and other things that generally make them 'look like women;. I've noticed no people in the gay community who are attracted to such 'men'. By your own claims, the 'homosexual' tranny chasers are attracted to what would be considdered 'attractive women' (And really, that requirement alone rules out a good 50+% of transwomen) but it seems 'things that look like hot chicks' are not up there on the homosexual mans 'I'd hit it' list. It's almost as if homosexual men are (Gasp!) homosexual and attracted to men!

LET'S PUT IT THIS WAY, SINCE YOU ARE TOO STUPID TO UNDERSTAND ELABORATE SPECULATION. THERE ARE TWO TYPES OF GAYS: GAYS WHO ARE ATTRACTED TO MEN (REGULAR GAYS); AND GAYS WHO ARE ATTRACTED TO TRANSWOMEN WITH COCKS (TRANNY CHASERS). Both categories like cocks, want to suck cocks and take them into their asses. For those morons who say that gays like men, I would say that gays like men with cocks, in fact, I've never seen a gay guy who doesn't like cocks, otherwise he wouldn't be gay. I've never heard of a gay guy who wants to have sex with a man with a vagina (that is an FTM). For both categories of gays (regular gays and tranny chasers) the cock is the conditio sine qua non, the bigger the better. The fact that a tranny chaser or a gay might be married to a genetic woman and might penetrate a vagina, once in a while, doesn't make him less gay. In fact, so many fags are married to women just to pretend they're straight. In any case, the ultimate desire of gays (regular gays and tranny chasers) is the cock. A straight guy, on the other hand, might have sex with a non-genetic woman, pre-operative TS woman like myself. Stupid people (and there are enough on this forum) might say why would a guy pick you up if it was not for your cock? Well, because I'm not only a cock. I'm only a cock for a gay, but for other people, I'm a very beautiful woman, with beautiful eyes, plump lips, fantastic legs, great body. I'm much more attractive than genetic women. Secondly, my penis is dead (hormones have taken care of it). Logically, a tranny chaser would run away as far as he knows that a) my penis is very tiny and dead and b) even though it was not dead, I'm not willing to screw his ass and c) I'll get rid of it very soon. Now, I foresee morons' arguments. They will say that a tranny chaser might perform the top/male role with me and be still a gay/tranny chaser. But there's a huge difference. One thing is to do something you like, another is to do something just because... I've been an escort and I've had dozens of chasers suck my dick. It was disgusting and I didn't enjoy it, but for that matter, since I let them suck my dick, doesn't mean that I enjoy it.


It stands to reason that these men are heterosexual and this 'attraction to women' would support that. At least that would be in my definition of 'heterosexuality'. There are men who are attracted to asians, to chubby girls, to red heads and numerious other things. These men will sometimes specificly seek out the niche of women that they're attracted to. I believe that there are men, heterosexual ones, who like cock. A 'heterosexual penis fetish'. It explains the desire for a penis but the total lack of attraction to men. I think we can all agree that 'men being attracted to men' would be a major factor in being 'a gay man'. If you were to look at men who are attracted to other niches you'd find their behaviours are fairly comparable to that of 'tranny chasers'. Of course this would require taking your head our of your ass and using some common sense.
Also, just so you know, you remind me of the guys who called me 'faggot' in high school because I had long hair and hung out with girls. Then agian, I suppose transsexuals, like all good hearted people feel joy in accusing someone of being a 'fag' once in a while, don't they? -Ashley —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.196.131.95 (talk • contribs) 17:52, 2 January 2006.
Wow, you are an idiot. I'm a bisexual woman who dated a non-op girl for a while. Our relationship was lesbian because she had a woman's mind. None of my gay friends are into her - they see her as a woman. Many, many of my straight male friends are into her - they see her as a woman with an extra attachment. All of the men who chase after her identify as straight (~95%) or bisexual (~5%). I have yet to see a gay guy after her.
You are an idiot and one of the worst specimen! You don't understand that there is a huge difference between gays who like men and gays who like cocks attached to women. They belong to two different categories but both are fags! In fact, the key is that if someone visualizes a TS woman as someone with an extra attachment and likes her for the very attachment, he's gay. I would never term "straight" a man who gets his ass screwed by a TS woman. And it's not even fair for the gay community that tranny chasers should get away being labelled straight when they are obsessed with the cock.
You are a homophobe who knows nothing of what you speak. Since all you have are empty words and insults, I doubt that you are even trans, but merely a troll. Perhaps you want to be trans but are unpassable. Let me spell this out for you since you are obviously too dim-witted to understand it for yourself: When I use a strap-on a guy, I am not engaging in gay sex with him. He views me as a woman and I view him a a man. Similarily, when a non-op or pre-op mtf uses a strap-on/her penis with a guy, they are both straight as long as he views her as a woman and she him as a man. A lesbian using a stap-on on me is engaging in lesbianistic sex, even though we are using a phallic object. My ex girlfriend using her penis on me was still engaging in lesbian sex even though she was using a phallic object because I viewed her as a woman. The sex we had after I viewed her as a woman was different than the sex we had when I viewed her as a man. Finally, you assume that people who are into trans women all want to be fucked by them and are obsessed with their cocks. That is not true at all. From the websites you linked, there are several members of those communities who view the girls involved as women and wish to have sexual relationships with them as one would with a genetic female. And this is from websites that YOU linked which means that either you don't read your "cites" or you can't understand what they say.

Bold textYou make me sick, it means that you can sleep with anything, even with animals, perhaps. You talk about using dildos with men, being fucked by transwomen, geez, you're disgusting. First of all, it's so predictable to discredit someone like me saying that I'm not passable. I'm not passable if that means being confused with average women. I'm far more attractive than natal women. Then, it's so stupid of you to compare a real penis to any sex toy, you should be ashamed of yourself for making such a stupid, non-sensical comparison. Then, the most ridiculous part about your message is about "viewing". So, how do you measure up someone's manhood? While you're fucking him with a strap on you stop and say "Hold on a minute, how are you viewing me? Are you viewing me as a girl or as a boy? Because if you view me as a boy, you're gay, if you view me as a girl (even though I have a cock far bigger than yours, and even though you want to swallow my cum) you're straight!", Get real, you pathetic cybernut. I don't care how someone views me. Between someone viewing me as a girl and longing for my cock and someone viewing me as a boy and wanting to behave like a real man, I prefer the second one.

Could you please avoid the use of the term "fag"? Perhaps it would help you not to be seen as so virulently homophobic. As someone who has spent time in the gay male community, I would suggest that "getting away with being labelled straight" isn't much of an issue. There is some biphobia around people who are accused of taking advantage of straight privilege and so they don't really know what it's like to be gay. However, men who fetishize transsexual women are not trying to include themselves in the "GLB" category so it's a different situation. Also, a significant number of "chasers" are intense crossdressers and may end up transitioning or have a strong desire to transition. Would they be considered gay men as well and wouldn't that then make the transwoman also a gay man? You still need reliable sources for such claims. Foxxygirltamara 11:57, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Now, first of all, the one who should take his head “our” of his ass it’s you. I haven’t insulted you up to this point, but now I do: you moron, imbecile!. Homosexuals are attracted to men with cocks, they would never be attracted to a man without a cock, an homosexual would never tolerate the absence of the penis (in fact a gay guy would never date a FtM trannsexual for the lack of the penis, indeed), but you know, you are so stupid that you don’t understand such a simple thing and explaining elementary concepts to you it’s a waste of time. I think we can all agree that 'men being attracted to cocks' would be a major factor in being 'a gay man'. Every man who is attracted to a cock is gay. PERIOD. And I don’t give a rat’s ass if the penis is attached to a man who looks like a man or to a TS woman. Both categories of men are homosexuals, the only difference is that men who are attracted to men are gay, men who are attracted to cocks attached to female shapes are closeted fags. And oh my god, taking Queer as Folk as the basis to make your point shows the person you are. How come then, the majority of gay guys like very masculine men (straight-acting) but the majority of them are effeminate? A heterosexual man who likes cocks, as you put it, is an oxymoron, a flat contradiction in terms. In fact you’ll never find a gay guy who ignores the cock, no matter what, top or bottom, for the homosexual man THE PRESENCE OF THE COCK is absolutely necessary, and it makes sense to me. A straight man (A REAL STRAIGHT MAN!) who dates a pre-op or non-op trannsexual woman is not interested in the cock, it’s not his CONDITIO SINE QUA NON (ARE YOU LISTENING!!!!????) he sees us as women. A closeted fag (tranny chaser) would never date me if he knew that my penis is not functional, a real STRAIGHT man couldn’t care less about it and sees it as a de-sexualized object. While a straight man would have no problem ignoring my penis or having sex with a post op woman, a tranny chaser would like to sleep with me ONLY for the penis. Jesus Christ, you don’t understand such simple things you are mentally handicapped! It makes me sick that people like you can use the Internet to spread lies. Now, the crucial difference is that gay guys have no problem in having sex with other men, tranny chasers are in denial and need to have the illusion that they’re having a heterosexual intercourse even when they’re sucking a cock or when they’re having their sagging asses screwed. And do you think you are going to hurt me or other TS women by saying that we don’t have hips or that 50% of us are not attractive? ROFLOL. If you saw me in person, you would stick your dirty tongue and your dirty fingers in your dirty ass. Now, as far as the physical beauty goes, the tranny chaser is very demanding BECAUSE the more beautiful and feminine the TS woman, the stronger the illusion that he's having heterosexual intercourses. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 151.50.246.31 (talk • contribs) 20:57, 2 January 2006.

Wow, you're a real homophobe. o.O I doubt I would start fingering myself after seeing your apperance, I like guys. :)
I knew right away that you were gay! It's soooooo obvious!


Also, there are homosexual (bio) males who are in relationships with homosexual FtMs. So the requirement of the penis isn't necessary. Or are you advocating that those men in relationships are actually straight men who arn't willing to admit that they arn't gay? -Ashley —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.196.131.95 (talk • contribs) 21:36, 2 January 2006.
Listen buddy, how many homosexual (bio) males are in relationships with homosexual FtMs? It's a fact that gay guys (the classical type) are attracted to masculine men with male genitalia, whilst tranny chasers (the other category of gays) are closeted queens who need to see the cock attached to a woman, because they are in deep denial.
I just said that there are. I know in real-life, several bisexual and homosexual FTMs who have had relationships with biomen and other FTMs. You make it out to seem like a gay man is a man with a penis fetish instead of a man who is attracted to other men. I like guys for who they are, not because of their genitalia. I dated an FTM for a while and it was totally a heterosexual relationship to me and he was very much a guy no matter what he looked like down below.
It would be rather deep denial for a gay man to be attracted to women and not to men, indeed it would be reasonable to suggest that he is, in fact, not gay. Otherwise, all straight men could be labelled "closeted gay men" reductio ad absurdum. It is also not clear that you distinguish from men who date pre-/non-op trans women and men who specifically fetishize them. A far greater number of men would be open to dating or having sex with a trans woman than specifically fetishize them. Similarly, most men who fetishize trans women also are interested in non-transsexual women, thus they might be considered bisexual (because they are attracted to males who live as women) but not homosexual.
It's pretty clear that you have a lot of issues surrounded homosexuality and your fear of it. You believe that if you call other people "fags" and make broad, unverifiable and experientially contradictory negative statements about who you consider to be gay, then that will take the spotlight off of you. However, all you are doing is making yourself look like an idiot in front of dozens of clear-headed transsexual women. Just lay off for a while and organize your thoughts and sources into something that consists of more than calling people "fags", "gender fucks", "idiots", "mentally handicapped", and saying "Fuck off you dumb little high schooler!" because it just makes you look uneducated and does not help your case. Foxxygirltamara 12:22, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
Listen Tamara or foxxy or whatever your name is, first of all, I've never said to anyone "Fuck off you dumb little high schooler", so don't make things up to make me look like the bad one because the only thing you're doing is showing the idiot you are. I'm just sick and tired of people like you who claim those stupid, nonsensical things and show off about being able (and being obliged) to sleep with everything. Just because you are a polysexual perverted gender fuck and you are able to sleep with everything, you cannot force others to be like you. And it makes me sick that you justify your perversions or pretend to extend them to others, by saying that you like people. You repulsive hypocrite! Just because you don't know what your identity is, you cannot judge, sic et simpliciter, people who have a precise identity. What kind of sexual freedom do you promulgate if you are the first who is unable to conceive the existence of people (myself included) who are not able to sleep with everything like you do? We all like people, what do you think? I and many other transsexual women know what we like and what we don't like, even though "we all like people". And you even have the balls to say that you're a communist! You should be able to understand with your little brain that there is nothing wrong if we like men who behave like men and not men who fetishize the penis, also because, no one in his right mind would ever want a long term relationship with someone who fetishizes a specific part of their body. And when you make the comparison with men who like Asians or black girls you are just showing your level of comprehension. You're comparing oranges and apples. Have you ever heard of the distinction between primary sexual characteristics and secondary sexual characteristics? Then if your comparison is correct, I can reverse it and take it to my advantage and say that tranny chasers are gays, just like other gays and that there is no difference. There are gays who like muscular guys, gays who like slim guys, and gays who like women with cocks. The common denominator is the cock i.e. the primary sexual characteristic. By contrast, when you say the main different between men who like asians, black girls etc and tranny chasers, is that the penis is the discriminant. The first category do not deviate from the primary sexual characteristic, the second category deviates. See that your comparison doesn't make sense at all? One thing is to have specific tastes when it comes to the looks of a woman, a totally different thing is to say that men who like cocks are equal to men who like Asians, chubby girls etc! Then I see you all think it's just a problem of terminology. Ok, then I may agree that someone who likes women with cocks is not gay (in the canonical sense of the word) but HE'S NOT STRAIGHT EITHER!!!! And that's the big difference! So we need another term to design this category of men who like TS women for their cocks, but it needs to be a term that sheds light on their homosexuality. I would suggest "pseudoheterosexual". Now, it's very unfair to the gay community that these tranny chasers have their asses screwed million of times and get away being labelled "straight". And what you don't understand is that we need words to describe concepts. If I talk to a TS woman and she says that she likes ONLY straight men, she implies a lot of things and with that single word I understand a lot of things: that she feels like a woman, she's striving to look like a woman, and wants to find a man who conceives her as a woman, and not someone who objectifies her as a women with something extra. She likes only men who feels her feminine soul. In other words, a typical heterosexual relation where the penis of the TS woman is totally ignored. This wouldn't be possible with a tranny chaser and we all know why. If you and your frinds think that genitalia are not determinant, why do you think then, a lot of us resort SRS? If I put the emphasis on the physical aspect is because, believe it or not, being transsexual has to do with the body you are living with. That's elementary. And refrain from asking every time where do these sources come from. This is empirical evidence! Are you so insecure that you need bibliographical references every time someone makes such an undeniable statement? Go out and learn instead of asking for books
Since the people (person?) making these statements is anonymous, it is impossible to know who I am responding to. The person that made that comment "fuck off you dumb little high schooler" [2] is named "Lisa" and is the author of the "Tranny Chaser Anonymous" website. Also, I can't refrain from asking where these sources come from. It has nothing to do with whether or not I am "unsecure" [sic], Wikipedia does not recognize "empirical evidence". Again, please read Wikipedia:No original research for more information. --Foxxygirltamara 01:28, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Likewise, wouldn't MTFs who have relationships with GGs and claim they're lesbians actually be closeted heterosexuals? What about MTFs who have relationships with other MTFs? Are they gay men or gay women? Are GGs who date FTMs closeted gay women? Where do MTF/FTM relationships fit in (a rather common situation)? If you are going to propose a theory (which I hope you have sources for), shouldn't you extend it to other situations? Foxxygirltamara 22:01, 2 January 2006 (UTC)


Sources on Tranny Chasers as closeted homosexual or bisexual men. Consider that this is a deeply closeted community-they don’t go to Pride parades, community centers, etc. But there is quite a bit of information regarding them nevertheless. A brief sample.

"Unfortunately for you, your man (they're always male) belongs to a licentious pack of losers known as "trans-fans" or "tranny-chasers." I have another name for them -- scumbags. Regrettably, they seem to be abundant; countless Internet porn sites exist to cater to them. I have no clue what drives these people psychologically -- whether they're closeted gay men who can't come to terms with their homosexuality or what -- but frankly, they give me the creeps."

  • Helen Boyd, My Husband Betty (NY: Thunder’s Mouth Press, 2003) has a very interesting interview with a tranny chaser named "Ken" who admits his obsession with a "beautiful woman with a penis." 179-82.

These are the people that you are so fervently denying the existence of.....

Josephine is right.

Distinction between Gay men and men who desire homosexual contact. Gay men acknowledge to themselves and eventually to others of their same sex desire. It's true that very few openly gay men seek relationships with transgendered women. On the other hand, some men who do not identify as "gay" yet seek homosexual contact. These type of men are most often the married guys that get arrested in tearooms or abs. It's this type of male with a homosexual orientation who becomes a tranny chaser. They have little to do with the gay community and continue to insist that they are 'straight' even after they have exclusive contact with male sexual genitalia attached to a ts woman or another man.

Finally, although a minority of transsexual women may not like the term 'gender dysphoria' it certainly does refer to an intense dislike of having a body that does not fit that person's self image. I realize that "gender fucks" and such do not have this kind of self-image dislike. Nevertheless, I believe that such indivduals are in the minority among transsexual women. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.36.164.154 (talk • contribs) 03:21, 3 January 2006.

So your sources are 'stuff written by other transsexuals who share your opinion', a sex party website, some prostitutes, a single interview of someone, and a blog about someone that is written by someone else and is largely fiction? Wow... Just, wow. -Ashley

Now this "person" named Ashley should be banned or at least moderated because he/she's making stupid comments about TS women being unattractive or considering writings by TS women unacceptable. This "person" is making massive generalizations about TS women not having common sense. It's just as if I decided to say that all fags are HIV positive, they go to saunas and stick in their mouths whatever cock is passing by. Or if I said that all fags are effeminate and the gay relationships doesn't exist because a fag wants a fag who doesn't look like a fag, that is, a real man, in fact fags have coined the term "straight acting" to design that they're attracted by a non-fag. This Ashley is a real trans-phobe, perhaps because he's a transsexual herself but will never admit it. In fact, he/she has repeatedly admitted on being called faggot in high school because her long hair and her mannerism.

Now this "person" named Ashley should be banned or at least moderated because he/she's making stupid comments about TS women being unattractive or considering writings by TS women unacceptable.
No. It's a sad reality however it is accurate. A large portion of the trans community is rather unattractive and should imune to the 'extremely high standards' you claim that 'tranny chasers' have. I'm also confused to how you seem to ignore the generally accepted concept of 'guys like hot chicks' applies to non-trans women and non-'trannychasers', but let's not go there. Also, rounding up a bunch of home brewed websites by transsexuals who share your opinion are invalid because they are baised. It's just like how I could (and just have, to confirm I can) Google up various websites which claim and give evidence and ideas to support the idea that the Jewish holocaust during WWII didn't happen. Just because I can find a website that claims it doesn't mean it's accurate.
This Ashley is a real trans-phobe, perhaps because he's a transsexual herself but will never admit it. In fact, he/she has repeatedly admitted on being called faggot in high school because her long hair and her mannerism.
That wouldn't explain all the CES and cyprotone acetate I take. :/ And who said anything about my mannerisms? -Ashley
Please read Wikipedia:Reliable sources. Also, please note that some of your "sources" are contrary to your hypothesis that gay men are men with a penis fetish and don't care whether that penis is attached to a transsexual woman or a man. Some men have a fetish for pre/non-op transsexual women, true, just as some men have fetishes for large women, amputees, Asian women, Black women, etc. People generally don't like being the subject of someone's fetish and it is hardly the basis for a healthy relationship. However, my questioning had nothing to do with whether men who fetishize women with penises exist ("tranny chasers") but of your characterization of them, which your sources do not address. Foxxygirltamara 06:43, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
You ask for sources, but they are not good enough because they are written by transsexual women? Funny, the same kind of arguments used to be used by academia regarding black history. According to this line of thought, knowledgeable white scholars were more capable of being 'objective' than African Americans. I think we've got the same dynamic here.

It's amazing that some of these writers have no clue what a tranny chaser is. If you don't know maybe you should go to a transclub, or something. I don't think most of these writers have ever met or seen a tranny chaser. Seems to me they are internet transsexuals. If tranny chasers weren't such dick lovers, why aren't they into post-ops too? If you have looked at the hung angels board or SER and still don't know what a tranny chaser is, you are either clueless or you are one.

Have you considdered that the experiances one would have at sex sites and clubs might be somewhat unique in comparision to the real world? -Ashley

Actually, you internet 'genderfucks' are the clueless ones. You don't go to any places where these people tend to congregate. Tamara has admitted as much. Do you know that every transclub in NYC gets shut down because of tranny chasers and their sleaze? You probably have no idea what we are talking about, (quick: look-up "Edelwiess" on google) but want to pontificate to push your own views. Just because you 'gender fucks' like to sodomize tranny chasers doesn't mean that the majority of gender dysphoric transsexuals feel that way. Yours is a minority view. In fact, you don't even seem to be aware who the tranny chasers are; what they do and where they share ideas. We are talking about a specific community of men that tend to congregate on the websites mentioned above. Maybe if you aren't a woman of color; maybe if you don't go to transclubs; maybe if you never were a sex worker you wouldn't know anything about it. You don't have to demean the experiences of excorts either because a large minority of ts women in urban areas have those experiences. You guys want to pose as the 'open-minded' ones, but in fact, you are the prudes. Besides, where do you get off suggesting that our community is "not attractive?" (Talk about "hate") Speak for yourself. Lisa

The issue here is you are not describing a specific community of men. You are describing, with an extremely broad brush, an entire range of men who are attracted to transsexuals due to their genitalia 1) Desire to be sodomized. 2) Are secretly homosexual. 3) Are bald. 4) Over weight. 5) Spread sexually transmitted diseases. (Wouldn't the transsexuals they're sleeping with be guilty of the same?) While these accusations could be applied accurately to some people who would be described as 'tranny chasers' it can not be applied to nearly all. This is why this information is not being allowed on the wikipedia. You are describing a group within what would be described as 'tranny chasers' and applying it universally to all of them. You are also guilty of declaring that all transsexuals think exactly as you do and those who don't are either some sort of 'gender rebel', 'gender fuck' or at the least, being in the extreme minority. You are essentially demanding that it is your way or the highway. You have expressed bigotry, homophobia and greatly abused the word 'fag' to defend your ideas. You have challenged the gender identity of people who's opinion is different from your own and even relabeled them as 'genderfucks' to suit your ideals. The wikipedia is a place for accurate information and not the hostile and bigoted rants of hateful people who disreguard any opinion different from their own. -Ashley
Please knock it off, you two. This really isn't the place or time for this argument. Ambi 21:35, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pre- or pre

I really don't want to start anything over something this silly, so I'm more than willing to let it go as is. However, I'd like to mention that as best as I've been taught as far as English goes, while "pre-" is technically correct, whether to use the suspensive hyphen here or not is more of a stylistic point. It's a device that's often encouraged to be used very spraringly, and most typically to avoid confusion. [Example: "The right- or left-handed scissors" would be necessary as it would clarify that we're contrasting two different pair and not a single one that works both ways] It would be very difficult to state that any confusion would be created by its abscence in this situation, as one cannot be both pre-operative and non-operative. So I guess with that said, I'll leave it to any future editors to decide if Mr. Hyphen should stay around or not. You know my vote. But as it stands now, Tamara versus myself in Hyphen War '06 won't get us anywhere. :-p -- Zoe 11:03, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Tranny chaser, there is no such thing as 'transsensual'

Really, that should be 'nuff said. Transsensual is a horrible misuse of psudolatin. By breaking it down, it seems it would apply more to someone into S&M, B&D, or something.

A Tranny chaser is a man who frequents trans-friendly clubs and internet chats, looking to hook up with transwomen for quick sexual fixes. They are abnormally obsessed with the penis, and with how femenine any given transwoman looks. Straight men may talk about how good looking this or that woman is, but seldom if ever will you hear to straight men discussing which woman is more womanly, nor whether or not it's a shame that their penis doesn't work. These discussions have been had by chasers. Trannychasers display behavior in line with that of Closeted homosexual males, such as a complete denial of their homosexual tendenceis, and an overcompensation of finding 'femininity' attractive, to such ends that most chasers have unusually and unrealisticly high demands of beauty and femininity.

A tranny chasers Modis Operendi is more akin to that of a pedophile than a homosexual male, although the psychological drive is probably more similar to a homosexual male. Most Transwomen, particularly when still in transition, are very much like pubescent women. Thanks to hormone therepy they are often overly-emotional, frustrated, often insecure, and extremely curious about their newfound gender and in exploring their sexual identity with their new gender.

Chasers take advantage of these insecurities and curiosity in much the same way that pedophiles do with young children. In clubs and chats, chaser mentality and behavior towards transwomen is startlingly similar to that of a pedophile trying to groom a child. If you're insulted by this comparasin, do some research on pedophilia and see for yourself. Remember, I'm not saying that chasers are child molestors, just that their behavior towards transwomen is extremely similar to that of a child molestor to a child.

As an aside, neither pedophiles nor tranny chasers like very much being called gay.

A tranny chaser is a man who always insists they are hetero-sexual, with an extremely keen interest in the secondary feminine sexual characteristics, such as hair, smooth skin, and feminine faces, while being attracted sexually to the primary masculine feature of transwomen, that being the penis, and in particular whether or not the penis functions. And, whether or not the transwoman wants to or is willing to use it.

Most if not all of these chasers are always hunting to be with a T-girl who they feel is ideal. Whether it is online or in real life. Chasers are not interested in forming relationships with Transsexuals for the most part, although I've personally encountered three (out of literally thousands) who wanted to have long term relationships, only one of them wanted specifically someone who was either post op, or wanted to be post op in the near future, or only biological women. All of the others wanted only sexual release, and 75% of them were either married or had serious long term relationships with genetic women. Neither the Spouses or girlfriends knew of their lovers interest in transwomen. About 50% of the chasers had actually been with transsexual hookers and escorts, and it seemed about 80% were willing to pay for sex as well, but hadn't for various reasons, usually pride. Every single one of them expected to have sex with a transwomen if they went out to a tranny club, and 90% of those online expected to have sex with a transwoman if they were to meet one for the first time. None of them had such expectations in regards to genetic women, and many even said they had no real interest in genetic woman, and absolutely no interest in a post-operative transsexual. Akinokaze 00:08, 4 January 2006 (UTC)The Autumn Wind

What in god's name have you been doing in life that has lead you to encounter 'literally thousands' of men who are sexually interested in you? DJ Izumi 00:51, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia policy

I'd like to remind all contributors that Wikipedia has a strict policy against personal attacks and that Wikipedia is not a battleground. Thanks :) - FrancisTyers 22:13, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Hi all! I know this is an emotional topic for all of you, but please try and be at least a little civil. Debates go so much nicer then :) - FrancisTyers 00:49, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
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