Talk:Trainz

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This article is part of WikiProject Trainz, an attempt to expand, update, and improve all articles relating to Trainz on Wikipedia. You may edit this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of objectives for the project.
A fact from this article was used in the "Did you know" section of Portal:Trains on March 2, 2006.

Contents

[edit] advertisng??

who's been writing in all this advertising? It's got to go.

Trainz is just a "wordprocessor" to build imaginative and creative worlds There is not that much in the box, could it then be said that a text file is an advert for Microsoft

I meant opinionated comments in the article in the article -- read Wikipedia:point of view -- so for example, something I deleted earlier said "Trainz Railroad Simulator 2004 (known as TRS among users) is an:
incredibly immersivegame for creating, driving on, and operating a railroad"
Incredibly immersive is Point of View -- not everyone will think the game is 'incredibly immersive' tommylommykins 09:39, September 5, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Plural of Scenario

Updated the article maintaining the appropriate plural of scenario - scenari. See Scenario Captain scarlet 10:42, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Hi. TBH, I have never, ever seen the word "scenarii" before. I would ask that you wont rv it if I change the wording back to "scenarios" tommylommykins
I'm afraid I will. Ignorance is not an excuse and this article is written in english. I have included a link above to the Wikipedia article concerning our dissagrement in the hope that not beeing aware of this grammatical particularity you would understand the use of such spelling. It is also deemed appropriate and correct to sign messages in discussions with ~~~~. Captain scarlet 09:05, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
Hello again. I have corrected my oversight with the tildas. I would suggest googling the two different plurals... even though the wiki page does say "scenari" I feel it to be a little over the top. tommylommykins 17:47, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
I understand you might think it is pushing it but this simply is correct. I have kept the erronous spelling in brackets anyway, hope it is at your convenience. Regards. Captain scarlet 11:49, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
The Latin (and French) plural of scenario is scenarii. The Italian plural is scenari (and is used thus in scenario since it is referring specifically and technically to Italian stage directions). The English plural is scenarios, as any decent dictionary [1] will confirm. Scenarios is the correct plural for the english wiki. FiggyBee 08:29, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
We'll agree to disagree. The plural of scenario is indeed scenarii and this seem to cause much distress to many wikipedians who are unaware of the etymology of many words and use a bastardised English. I fail to see how the French plural of scenario is relevant to this English article. It is quite correct to use original grammar for words that are used outside their home language. There has also recently been a lot of editing by unregistered people, it is perfectly ok but it is impossible to trace their history and therefore verify their background. Rather than truncating the article it would probably be profitable to remove lower quality screenshots, which are a clear attempt to promote poorer content and badly illustrates the possibilities of the game. Captain scarlet 10:08, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
'We'll agree to disagree' - No, we won't, because you're wrong. Show me an english dictionary which states the plural of scenario is scenarii. Also, I edited the article to make it clearer, I did not "truncate" it. If you think I've removed something important, edit it back in - do not simply revert my entire edit. FiggyBee 10:24, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
Since you've truncated the article a second time it is quite unappropriate of you to ask me to include your something. I have no problem with more information added, that would be preposterous. Do not truncate the article, add what you think is relevant or I will be forced to refer you as vandalising this article as you are clearly removing relevant information. This article has come leaps and bounds since it's creation and you are firstly narrow minded at the possiblity that some Wikipedians think outside the shell, do not speak Noah Webster but Queen's English and do not try to impose themselves onto other Wikipedians and shorten articles which is preposterous considering what you have included. Read Help:Contents#Editing_Wikipedia_-_The_Basics. Regards, Captain scarlet 21:00, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
Please don't patronise me or make ridiculous threats. If it will help, I will explain my reasoning behind each of my edits below. This article is not your baby, Greg. As it says on the edit page, If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly or redistributed by others, do not submit it. - me editing this article is not Vandalism. FiggyBee 10:04, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
Your behavious is unbelievable and your cheek is without limits. Firstly It is patronising of you to call me by my name so you may call me Captain_Scarlet which is my username, you clearly have something going on the Trainz' forum which you are dragging onto here trying to impose your own view on things which is I'm afraid vandalism. I put it to you that if you do not want other members contributing to Wikipedia, do not edit articles. You are rude and out of place and narrow minded. Captain scarlet 12:28, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
Why have you removed my previous post to this talk page? It was not a "private conversation", it was me attempting to explain to you why I made the edits that I did. I am willing to work towards consensus on this article; why aren't you? FiggyBee 13:25, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
I am fine with a concensus which is why in my last revert I have included vast parts of what you had editied in. As you posted this rpely I was posting in your tlak page so we can work this out. Captain scarlet 13:43, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
This is most ridiculous. Of course it's 'scenarios' - I'm sure rail fans appreciate not being force-fed obscure and irrelevant linguistics lessons in a rail article. Is this what wikipedians must waste their time on? 213.112.249.111 17:24, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A call for calm

I've been watching the content dispute here for the last week, and I must say that it's time for calm. I removed the notice at the top of the article where one editor alleged vandalism by another as the article space is not the proper place for such a comment. On the next content dispute edit, the page will be protected until a consensus can be reached here on the talk page. Everyone, please take a moment, think about what you would like changed, and discuss it here. Slambo (Speak) 13:55, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Slambo. I'm restoring my explanation for my edits; there's no reason to discuss this in 'private', Captain scarlet. FiggyBee 14:47, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] reasoning behind my edits

[edit] Surveyor section

1) removed This module of the game is appreciated for its simplicity. as it is not NPOV

2) added Here, the user can shape and 'paint' the landscape, lay tracks, and place buildings, scenery and trains., a description of what Surveyor actually is.

3) removed Items included with the boxed game are not the only items available for use in the game; Auran offers a download station (or DLS) which hosts over 10000 custom built objects, including decor elements as well as drivable trains. as advertising. Mention of third party content is added below.

4) general grammar and tidy up.

[edit] Driver section

1) added a reference to explain the link between Surveyor and Driver (bearing in mind that this is descriptive of all versions of Trainz).

2) general grammar and tidy up.

[edit] Scenarios section

1) removed Scenarii are beeing replaced by the more popular session concept which requires less scripting and can be created in 'Surveyor' rather than having to be fully scripted from a third party application. because

a) it's disputable. Scenarios still exist in the game (as a discrete module, and it is the module which is being described here).

b) it's confusing, and I don't imagine it conveys much meaning to anyone not already familiar with TRS.

And a note on the whole "scenarii" thing - whatever you personally think is the plural of scenario, the game module is called 'scenarios'. So it makes sense to refer to it as such in this article, no?

[edit] Additional features section

1)removed the header, as most of that described were not 'Additional features' of the game.

2)removed the paintshed section - with hindsight, I guess a description of paintshed should be readded, and I will do so. added a new para on Paintshed.

As a matter of accuracy I had mentioned that Paintshed was a full software at one time, that ought to figure in the main article (as a seperate article for Paintshed would be unappropriate). Captain scarlet 14:46, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

3)removed Trainz Discussion Forum, as pretty much all games have a discussion forum and it's not a notable feature. A link to the forums is at the bottom of the article.

4)removed Language Beta Translation Group - there were translations which were created, but subsequently not used? What relevence has that to anything? If anything, it sounds like a subtle POV - a complaint from a member of the LBTG that their work was not used, perhaps?

5)removed Content Creation Group, for similar reasons as the LBTG. It's confusing to someone who doesn't already know what it is, for one thing. also, an additional reference to third party content has been added, see below.

6) removed Trainz on the Road - certainly an interesting phenomenon but it doesn't really say much about Trainz itself. Auran rewarded demonstrators with premium access to its DLS facilities. sounds a bit funny. Advertising?

This was an attempt at showing the involvement of the game's editor at a personnal level. Captain scarlet 14:46, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] History section

Generally tidied up and made more readable.

[edit] Other changes

removed the little box graphics - they don't mean anything to anyone who doesn't know what they already are, they don't add anything to the article, they look untidy and they are inconsistent (there is no icon for scenarios, for example).

No icon for scenario was added as there is none. Captain scarlet 14:46, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

added Trainz also has a large content creation community, who use modelling software such as Gmax to create additional scenery and rolling stock models for use in the game. The more recent versions of Trainz include a lot of third-party content, and registered owners of the game can download (and upload) third party content via the Trainz website. as a NPOV description of the third party community. Captain scarlet has incorporated this para into his latest edits so I guess it's acceptable.

What do you think of the current version? I have incorporated sections from both "versions", including the information on the LBTG and CCG (under what I think is a more suitable heading of "Community Involvement"). FiggyBee 14:39, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

All good ! Thanks. Captain scarlet 14:46, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Linux and Mac availability

In the infobox, supported platforms are Windows, Linux and Mac. However, in the text body, it says that Linux and Mac are experimental/yet to be released. If this is the case, should the infobox really include these? Hertzsprung 16:59, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bugs discussion

Wouldn't it be appropriate to mention some of the most major and persistent bugs of the game somewhere?

Just as a sole example (I don't want to edit the main page before asking here) the "driver AI" still doesn't work, even after all these versions, patches and service packs; meaning that the pathfinding makes severe errors, the drivers ignore signals and direction markers, and that blocked trains will "lose their patience" and end up dead-locking each other or become coupled to each other (effectively destroying one driver and his orders) 213.112.249.111 17:30, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't know how other articles about software manage it, but such information seems appropriate to me as a form of "criticisms" section. The only issue I'd have is that it should be presented in a neutral manner. I've run into the path problems you mentioned when using one of the prepackaged scenarios; yeah, it gets annoying, but this is still one of the very few programs where I've purchased every upgrade that has been released. Slambo (Speak) 18:14, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, Slambo. Btw, I agree with your assessment - this would not be nearly as frustrating if the software wasn't so excellent otherwise... ;-/ 213.112.249.111 15:43, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] External links discussion

Should the external links include the major non-profit usergroups/fansites for Trainz, such as Trainz Pro Routes and the Razorback Railway? I put in a link to Virtual Railroader's Train Sim Webfinder http://www.virtualrailroader.com/HTML_Version/WebFinder.htm (a huge list of links to trainsim sites for all the major programs) but it got zapped for being regarded as advertising.Unsigned comment was added by John259, 10:14, 17 November 2006 GMT

Fansites do not constitute what is deemed appropriate as external links. this is an encyclopedia, not an advertising service, external link exist only to provide sources to an article. Reference notes are added to source particular statements. Whether websites are non-for-profit or commercial websites, fansites are not appropriate for inclusion. The only non-official and personnal website link left is kept as it is a source of impartial and verifiable information for the article's substance. Content or download download websites do not. Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons 11:06, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Notes about the forum up/down status

I've removed the comments in the External links section about the official forum's up/down status. This information isn't really encyclopedic. Yes, there have been problems with Auran's forum upgrade, but WP:NOT a status monitor for other websites. Slambo (Speak) 18:34, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ugh!

Goodness, this page is really irritating me. Why?

  • Many things on the page are extremely outdated, yet editors fail to recognize this.
  • There is barely any detail on any of these things.
  • This series of games is just notable. 220,048 members on forum right now.

I think that pages for Ultimate Trainz Collection, Trainz Railroad Simulator 2004 and Trainz Railroad Simulator 2006 should be made. :) --RedPooka 02:57, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Trainz Driver Edition

Captain Scarlet: Trainz Driver Edition is NOT just a regional edition. As the review that I linked to clearly explains, TDE is a special cut-down version sold in the USA at a low price and is totally different to the regional editions. It is therefore my opinion that the following entry should be restored please:

  • Trainz Driver Edition (TDE) is a cut-down version of TRS2006 sold in the USA. A full review is available on V-Scaler. John259 17:17, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
If it is sold in one country only, it is a regional version, the spanish version, translated into spanish and sold in spain only (different publishers for Latin America) also make it a regional version... It's in the name: TDE is a special cut-down version sold in the USA. And when you sourc,e don't use some guy's website [2], that's advertising, try looking for the publisher's. Basically, there is no need to elaborate on a particular local version or the list, currently incomplete, would become a directory, which Wikipedia is not. Also if I put Trainz 2007 IS sold here, there and there it's because it's been checked, don't go changing it to may be if I made a point to add it, you did ask for a fact check!. Further more, the sim isn't sold solely in the Francophone region of the countries but IN the countries, it also not a local version but a step above previous versions. Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons 19:48, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Captain - Thanks for making the changes, what you now have seems a very reasonable compromise to me.John259 20:29, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I think it does indeed. cheers, Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons 21:43, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
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