Talk:Traditional animation
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[edit] The Simpsons
"The last major feature film to use traditional ink and paint was The Swan Princess (1995); the last animated series to do so was Ed, Edd n Eddy, Allthough The Simpsons still uses traditional ink and paint."
This statement is contradictory. Which part is correct?12.107.224.195 20:28, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
Is this statement intended to refer to US animation only? For example, Inuyasha was cel animated (at least in the early series,) and it aired in 2000, whereas Ed, Edd n Eddy began in 1999. Fio Vaya 01:16, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
That statement is wrong. The Simpsons uses digital ink and paint. --FuriousFreddy 09:17, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Japanese Terms?
Would it be worthwhile to add to this article a section explaining the terms used in producing japanese anime? Douga/Genga/key cel,book cel... those kinds of terms. Gront 09:57, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
- I think those belong better in the anime article. Greetings, --Janke | Talk 12:48, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
- What's the point? The process behind creating an anime is generally the same. KyuuA4 09:35, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Cel-shading
Aren't large parts of Futurama cel-shaded 3D? boffy_b
- A certain amount of it is. The opening titles are almost entirely cel-shaded 3D, and 3D gets used a lot for vehicles (spaceships particularly), as well as the backgrounds of some establishing shots and "glamour" shots. I'd estimate maybe two or three minutes of cel-shaded 3D per episode tops (excluding the titles). ~ Matticus78 22:12, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
I removed this:
One note of digital animation, is the Pepper Ann series, where the opening title scenes are regular cel work, but the episodes from season two shows the final scene in digital ink work.
...I don't really see the point of its inclusion. What cohesive point does this trivia fact have with this article? --FuriousFreddy 17:57, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Live-action hybrids
Like rotoscoping, this method is rarely used, but when it is, it can be done to terrific effect, leading the audience to believe there truly is a world where humans and cartoons co-exist. I'm not quite sure of the validity of that statement.How many people truly believe this there's a world where humans and cartoons co-exist? Optichan July 8, 2005 21:18 (UTC)
- I thionk the implication is that your belief is suspended so that you think humans and cartoons coexist in the world presented in the film. No sane person believes there's a REAL world cartoons & humans actually exist, but films create worlds of their own. --FuriousFreddy 8 July 2005 21:22 (UTC)
- That was indeed my intention. But I'll go back and clarify that phrase in the article. Thanks for the suggestion. Garrett Albright 9 July 2005 00:55 (UTC)
It seems the person attempted to describe cases when animation and live-action film are mixed. For example, Who Framed Roger Rabbit and Mary Poppins. KyuuA4 09:36, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Digital Cell Animation
I think its important to note that Digital Cell Animation is another important feature that has been around since the early 90's, which was introduced with movies such as Ghost in the Shell. Digital Cell Animation doesn't rely on the same methods that Digital Ink & Animation does, because it is almost a combination of 3D Animation and Digital Ink together. Digital Cell Animation (DCA) is first wireframed like a 3D Animation, and multiple layers are used to create a 3D effect that traditional cell animators would do, but in this case it is done digitally. An animator would then flesh out the cells with further digital inking and coloring. Finally, any additional 3D compositing is applied, and combined to form the final product.
With today's computers, DCA can be produced in a shorter timeframe than that of a true 3D movie/show such as Appleseed, but still retain the high quality product that one would expect from a animation. DCA is primarily used by studios such as Production I.G. (the original co-develoeprs) in Japan and their offices worldwide, and various other companies.
--DaisukeNiwa 06:06, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
- What you are referring to is called cel-shading, which is already mentioned in the article. --FuriousFreddy 13:59, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
- I don't know if this has been done already by using this technique, but what about making a computer animated movie in 2D with an even more traditional look? Instead of using 3D objects that looks like they are the real thing in 3D, why not make the objects look like just simple black lines? Just like a cel from for instance One-Hundred-and-One Dalmatians would look before being colored? No tones or colors, just black lines. And just as a computer working with 3D characters remembers how the characters backs looks like if we turn them around, even if we are only seeing their front for the moment, the computers would be able to show how the characters made of black lines would look from a different angle and distance (since they already are 3D objects made up of simple lines). Remember the ball-room scene in Beauty and the Beast? Not just characters, but also the other objects, surrounings and backgorund and so on. Doing this by hand would be impossible, but with the help from computers it could work. And then everything is toned and colored by using the CAPS process or something. Each single frame would look like it was made by using traditional animation, and it would still look like traditional animation when seen as a movie. But there would be much more depth and such in it. If this could be done, I don't think it would be possible to improve 2D animation more than this without turning it into 3D animation. --15 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] The APT process
It is said that David W. Spencer was awarded an Oscar for his development of the APT (Animation Photo Transfer) process, which was a technological breakthrough in cel animation andin 1986 the most important one since xerography. So why is there so little information about the subject and no description of the process? All I have found so far is this; "The Animation Photo Transfer (APT) process is a lithographic means of generating images used in animated motion pictures. Cells, ready for inking, are created with improved dimensional stability at considerably lower cost than through means previously available. Multiple exposures can be made on the same plate without deteriorating the drawing and thereby a broader range of painting styles has been available."
- I have added and modified some items in the ATP section. Please expand and modify as you see fit. --Janke | Talk 07:29, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, I will if I should find some interesting information. I don't know what was going on in another animation studios at the time, but if the APT process replaced xerography, would it mean that The Fox and the Hound was the last Disney feature to use xerography (I have also heard that The Fox and the Hound was the first animated Disney feature since The Jungle Book that didn't use line overlay)? Oliver & Company, which was made later, seems to have been made in an old style, like using line overlay again. Then we have Fantasia, where it was used a lot of new animation techniques. Did any of those new techniques became a standard for the following movies?
- Fantasia 2000 was composited digitally, thus no cel copying at all. That technique was first used in the final sequence of Mermaid, and all features from Rescuers D/U used it exclusively. --Janke | Talk 07:53, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
Well, it was actually Fantasia from 1940 I had in mind. Any way, just a little sad a new version of Fantasia wasn't made earlier. Then we would have a Fantasia from all the most important eras in Disney animation; hand inking, cel copying and CAPS (and later maybe a pure CGI version).
- There really weren't that many technical innovations in the original Fantasia other than Fantasound. Multiplane and other camera effects had already been used on SW and Pinocchio... --Janke | Talk 21:22, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
I havn't read the book myself, but a book written by Frank Thomas and Ollie Johnston is quoted like this when it comes to some segments in Fantasia:
"If there's one thing the book makes clear, it's that there's a lot more to animation than just drawing little animals and cartoon characters and having them hop around. The artists experimented for weeks with the fairy sequence, and eventually used a whole arsenal of techniques to get the desired effects: not only straightforward drawing and traditional animation, but foreground and background matte paintings, gels, trick dissolves, multilayered paintings and other special effects. The effortless magic of the sequence hardly suggests the painstaking work that went into it."
I understand that most of these techniques were used as special effects, but I just wondered if there were some who meant a new step forward in how to animate. It probably wasn't.
[edit] Xerography?
Is it xerography they mean, or something else? "1960 - Technical Achievement Award to Ub Iwerks for the design of an improved optical printer for special effects and matte shots." and "1959(32nd), Class III, Laboratory, UB IWERKS of Walt Disney Productions, for the design of an improved optical printer for special effects and matte shots."
[edit] History section
I don't have the time to pull it together myself, but this article needs a separate section for the history of the use of these techniques, especially considering the way it is titled ("traditional animation" vs., say, "hand-drawn animation"). GreetingsEarthling 05:20, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
