User talk:Trödel/Sandbox4
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[edit] Atonement deletion
The concepts advanced by Atonement attempt to describe why the sinless Jesus lived, died, and rose from the tomb to live again.
[edit] Need for a Redeemer
The Atonement was necessary to compensate and reverse the fall of Adam, as noted in Christian scripture. In 1 Corinthians 15:22, Paul wrote: “As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.” Christ therefore submitted voluntarily as the mediating representative for both humanity and God to answer the ends of the law previously transgressed by Adam. Paul taught that “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; … this mortal must put on immortality” (1 Corinthians 15:50–53).
The Atonement is a perceived to be a crowning doctrine in Christianity that also attempts to answer why God the Son condescended to live upon Earth as a human man, born to the virgin Mary as the human baby Jesus, and the need for an intercession for the human family. The physical and spiritual mechanics of how the atonement was accomplished is thought to be outside the realm of human understanding, thus it requires faith to be believed. As a preamble to the Atonement, Christ ministered to organize His church, taught love, faith, hope, kindness, forbearance, pacifism, to bear one another's burdens, repentance, forgiveness, baptism, and endeavored to overcome the sins of the world through the Atonement by fulfilling the ends of the laws of heaven, which Christ is said to have established with direction from the Father. This was summarily accomplished through his preeminant example of perfection, overcoming temptation, descending below all things (including the Crucifixion), and overcoming the world by making all things new physically (resurrection) and spiritually (salvation). Many Christian denominations believe the Atonement was finished with the suffering and execution of Christ on the cross, and still others believe it was finished with the resurrection. Nevertheless, Christians largely believe the infinite Atonement is considered to be accomplished, forever unlocking the gates of heaven to the human family.
[edit] Perspectives
...
[edit] Bob Parsons 1
- Sunday, June 19. 2005
Close Gitmo? No way!! Think our interrogation methods are tough? Prisoners in the Middle East talk quick. Here's why.
[edit] May we never forget the day!
I still remember the day like it was yesterday. Planes, filled with innocent people, brutally hijacked and exploded into buildings. Countless people (some holding hands) decided to jump hundreds of feet to their death, rather than being burned alive by the scorching flames. And when they landed, they unfortunately killed other people who were on the ground trying to help.
On that day 2,819 people died. The vast majority of them were Americans, but the death toll included citizens from 115 other nations.
Of all those brutally and senselessly murdered, only 289 of them had their bodies recovered intact. Those who had the grisly task of digging through the carnage, found a total of 19,858 body parts.
It was indeed, a dark day for this country. As you might guess, I’m talking about the tragedy that struck America on September 11, 2001.
[edit] America did not deserve 9-11.
There are those that have since said we “deserved” this attack. They’ve said we “had it coming”. I could not disagree more. To me, saying that we “had it coming” is the same as saying that someone deserved to be raped – i.e., that they were “asking for it”. No individual, of course, ever deserved to be raped, and our country did not deserve to be attacked on 9-11.
Since 9-11, we have been fortunate in that there’s not been another terrorist attack on United States soil. I think there are a number of reasons for this. They are:
1. We’ve taken the fight to the terrorists in Afghanistan, Iraq and other places. 2. The terrorists, as a result of our country’s outrage and overwhelming military response to the 9/11 attacks, are disorganized and off balance. 3. Our military and intelligence services are now proactive in hunting down terrorist cells wherever they are and are destroying them.
[edit] To me United States' soil is sacred.
I believe that there is nothing more sacred than United States soil and that it deserves to be protected at all costs. If there is another country or a group who would do us harm, then we must be both smart and tough enough to first destroy them.
[edit] Gitmo serves an important purpose in our fight against terror.
One of the most important assets we are using to protect Americans both at home and abroad is our military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba -- “Gitmo.”
[edit] The prisoners at Gitmo are America's sworn enemies.
Presently there are over 500 prisoners there; once there were a few hundred more, but over 200 of them have been returned to their country of origin. Most of the prisoners there are “terrorists” and are, beyond any shadow of a doubt, enemies of the United States.
[edit] One of the Gitmo detainees is the so called "20th hijacker."
One of the detainees is Mohammed al-Qahtani, who is widely reputed to be the 20th hijacker. However, because of an alert INS official, Mohammed al-Qahtani was not allowed to enter our country. He did not participate in the 9-11 massacre only because he was turned away by immigration. Mohammed al-Qahtani was supposed to provide "muscle" for the team that hijacked United flight number 93 that crashed in Pennsylvania. Because of his absence, that plane was hijacked by a team of four -- not five -- terrorists. This lack of muscle may be why the hijackers on flight 93 were able to be overwhelmed by the passengers and prevented from completing their deadly mission. The other three planes on 9-11 were hijacked by cells of five terrorists, and each five man cell accomplished what it set out to do. Mohammed al-Qahtani was captured by our military in Afghanistan where he was fighting with the Taliban against our forces.
[edit] Time Magazine's recent article.
Time Magazine recently ran a large article where it talks in detail about the interrogation techniques our military is using to get Mohammed al-Qahtani to talk. Some who read the article, like Dick Durbin, the Senator from Illinois, were horrified that our military would use such interrogation techniques.
Senator Durbin likened the actions of our military at Gitmo to those of Nazis, Soviet gulags and the “mad regime” of dictator Pol Pot. I find this to be a ridiculous exaggeration and an inappropriate comparison, as many millions perished under the cruelty of each of the regimes Senator Durbin compares us with. Fortunately, many others also do not agree with Senator Durbin and resent his comments.
[edit] The interrogation techniques at Gitmo are very mild.
It’s important to note that to date, there have been no fatalities among the prisoners at Gitmo. Some of the “terrible” techniques we are being decried for using in Gitmo are sleep deprivation, solitary confinement, exposure to cold and heat (as in a cold room), mental games, constant questioning, etc. All of it, when compared to what has been done in the Middle East to extract information from prisoners is mild, indeed.
[edit] Interrogation techniques in the Middle East are incredibly brutal.
In the Middle East, it’s not uncommon to use murder, rape, extreme physical torture (like running a drill through a prisoner’s head), electrical shocks to the genitalia, pulling out fingernails, dripping acid on victims, or burning victims with a hot iron or blow torch. Yes, it’s a brutal crowd that we’re at war with over there.
Among the most infamous torture devices in the Middle East is a Syrian invention—they call it Al-Abd Al-Aswad--The Black Slave. The victim is strapped to a chair with a hole in the center. A red hot poker then rises from the hole and goes into the victim’s rectum. It goes in and out and can go as deep as the intestines. I suspect that Syrian interrogators find out rather quickly whatever it is they want to learn.
[edit] Senator Durbin strikes again!
In response to a hailstorm of criticism, Senator Durbin returned to the Senate floor and re-read his earlier "Nazi" and "Soviet gulag" comments verbatim. He then described what he felt were the alarming interrogation techniques being used on the detainees at Gitmo. He mentioned holding a detainee in such cold temperatures that he actually shivered, another was held in heat passing 100 degrees, some were left in isolation so long they "fouled theirselves" -- and if this wasn't enough, he told about a prisoner that was actually forced to listen to rap music. I can't help but wonder how rappers like Snoop Dog would respond to the accusation that being forced to listen to their recordings, is an unacceptable form of torture.
[edit] Key prisoners at Gitmo still have not talked -- because our interrogation methods are so weak.
Given the type of individuals we have incarcerated at Gitmo (all of them would love to gouge out your eyes --- and most certainly my eyes), the interrogation techniques we are using there are incredibly mild. All of the prisoners receive regular medical attention. In contrast, Americans who are captured in the Middle East have their heads hacked off. The point here is that there’s just no comparison.
[edit] Nevertheless, vital information has been obtained from some of the Gitmo detainees.
So even though our interrogation techniques are weak, and even laughable by Middle Eastern standards, our military has nevertheless been able to obtain vital information from the detainees at Gitmo. This information has been used to save American lives both at home and abroad.
[edit] Now there's a call to close Gitmo.
So it has come to light that our military has been unkind, and on occasion, even mean to our sworn enemies being held at Gitmo. And of course, as a result, there’s now a call to shut the prison down. Of course, those who would have us close the prison, as usual, have no alternative suggestions. They just think it’s terrible that our military would deprive a prisoner of sleep, or allow him to get cold enough to shiver, in order to protect our country -- so we should close the prison.
[edit] Put cameras in their cells?
I was watching The Beltway Boys (a political talk show on Fox) this evening. One commentator on the show even suggested that we install a camera in each cell at Gitmo to make sure there are no abuses. Once again, this man needs to remember that the people in those cells are our sworn enemies. Instead of transferring them to Gitmo, had we handed these detainees over to our Middle Eastern allies, and allowed them to do the interrogation, we would have found out whatever we wanted to know overnight. Then, of course, the terrorists would now be a shadow of their former selves -- assuming they didn't die in the process. In fact, fearing this very thing (i.e., being turned over to a Middle Eastern ally for interrogation) Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the terrorist who master minded the 9-11 attacks, upon capture immediately confessed everything he knew.
Our military did not turn these prisoners over to our allies in the Middle East, for interrogation, because we as Americans do not support the use of torture to get information. I also personally do not think we should ever resort to torture. That said, I do not consider the interrogation techniques that are being used at Gitmo (ie sleep deprivation, etc.) to be torture.
[edit] Let's put the detainees at Gitmo on trial.
Senator McCain recently came out and requested that we put the detainees at Gitmo on trial. That way those that are not a threat to this country, or who may be there in error, can be returned home. I agree with Senator McCain's recommendation.
[edit] Closing Gitmo would be a mistake.
I think that it would be a mistake if we closed Gitmo – most certainly if we did it just to be politically correct with our sworn enemies. I, for one, support what our military has done and is doing there. We can’t lose sight of the fact that we are indeed at war with very vicious people.
[edit] We need to decide as Americans what is right and what is wrong.
But maybe even the mild methods of interrogation being used at Gitmo are more than this country wants to have employed on its behalf. We have to decide as Americans what's more important. Should we do whatever it takes to protect our borders, even if it means using mild but unpleasant methods of interrogation? Or should we, unlike our enemies, simply refuse to resort to this sort of thing. Based on the comments I've seen on this Blog, and the completion of the survey, American's seem split 50-50 over which direction they want our country to take.
[edit] Why the invasion of Iraq happened.
As everyone now knows, we invaded Iraq because the intelligence community was flat out wrong about there being weapons of mass destruction there. One of the reasons we had such bad information goes back to the shackles put on the CIA by the Committee head by Senator Frank Church back in 1975. It's true that the CIA was literally out of control and needed to be reigned in, but the Committee went overboard in imposing restraints on the CIA's ability to gather intelligence. My friends in the intelligence community tell me that as a result of those restraints (and others subsequently imposed) the CIA has largely become ineffective as an intelligenge gathering service. The point to be made here is that once we soften our intelligence gathering methods (ie like the methods currently being used at Gitmo) there is no way back. Then our defense capabilities (because we don't have good information on which to base our decisions) become weaker, and we become more vulnerable to attacks both at home and abroad. So we need to be very careful in making this decision.
[edit] If I get enough requests, I'll post the video.
After writing this article, I once again watched a video showing people jumping to their deaths, one after another, from the World Trade Center. I’ve thought about making this video available for those reading this blog to see. The video can be found by searching on line, but finding it takes a little effort. If I get enough requests, I’ll make it available. I find that watching it helps me keep things in perspective. Compared to those Americans and others who were forced to jump to their death on 9-11, the detainees at Gitmo really don't have it so bad.
[edit] A special note to the reader.
Since this blog article was posted I have been accused repeatedly of supporting the use of torture to get information from prisoners. This is simply not true. I do not, under any circumstance, support the use of torture. I do not consider the use of interrogation techniques such as sleep deprivation or the playing of rap music to be torture. Posted by Bob Parsons in Hot Points at 00:47
[edit] Bob Parsons 2
- Monday, June 20. 2005
How to stir up a hornet’s nest. A self-review of my recent blog article. Plus Radio Go Daddy’s next show.
[edit] This past Sunday I decided to write an article about the Gitmo controversy.
As you may or may not know, this Sunday I got the bright idea to write an article concerning my slant on the controversy surrounding our military prison at Guantanamo Bay “Gitmo.” While I knew that the article would be controversial I had no idea that it would cause such a stir.
I was prompted to write the article after reading about Senator Durbin’s (Democrat – Illinois) public statement comparing the prison at Gitmo to concentration camps run by Nazis, Soviets and Pol Pot.
In my article I said that I thought that the interrogation techniques used at Gitmo were mild, that I did not consider them to be torture and that I supported their use.
[edit] I made an incorrect assumption.
One good thing about having an active blog is when you are incorrect you find out in a hurry. Many readers pointed out that the methods being used at Gitmo were not only inhumane but also were not very effective. So I checked the references that I was provided and sure enough I was wrong. It seems that interrogation methods that are based on humiliation and mild physical discomfort, aren’t nearly as effective as certain psychological techniques that take a completely different approach. Not only are the psychological techniques more effective, they are more humane.
[edit] I immediately corrected the article.
After learning that I was wrong, I immediately corrected the article and admitted the mistake in a special note to the reader. I also added that I agree with Senator John McCain’s request that each detainee be put on trial to determine if they belong at Gitmo or not.
[edit] But the damage had already been done.
But it appears that the correction was a bit too late. It seems that the original article was circulated in what some readers call the liberal blogsphere, and comments continued to stream in that addressed not the revised article, but the original article.
[edit] I do not advocate the use of torture.
One individual even posted a comment in a liberal forum that the CEO of Go Daddy supports the use of torture. Nothing of course could be further from the truth. At least it was never my intent to ever advocate the use of torture.
[edit] Many blog readers actually liked the article.
Not everyone was upset about the article. In fact, I heard from a good number of readers who were very supportive. Based on the survey that is taken at the end of the article, about 40% of those visiting the blog indicated that they liked the article. Those that disliked the article however were far more likely to comment. Many dissenting readers commented several times, and voted each time they commented. Adjusting for those who voted many times, my guess is that the split is at least 50-50.
[edit] I received a healthy dose of education.
While the article did get many people upset (people who I would rather not have gotten upset) I received a healthy dose of education. I got to see in an unvarnished and uncensored fashion how important this issue is to us as Americans. It is now obvious to me that this is no trivial issue and it is one that our Government (both executive and legislative branches) needs to consider carefully.
I know now that those involved with deciding what happens at Gitmo have a difficult task on their hands. It’s going to be interesting to see how the political firestorm ends up.
I sincerely appreciate everyone who took the time to read the article and those who also took the time to comment. To those of you who commented on the article, and even those who referred to me using various obscenties (there were more than a few of you), I want you to know that I appreciate the fact that you read the article and took the time to tell me your thoughts. You've helped me understand just how powerful blogging can be.
[edit] The time for Blog comments over the Gitmo articles is now over.
I think everything that needs to be, or can be said concerning the two Gitmo articles and the associated comments has been said. That being the case, no further comments dealing with Gitmo will be posted.
...
[edit] Ref for Jimmy Wales article
<ref>{{cite newsgroup
- | title = How can helping "Kids in Africa" be in my self interest
- | author = Trodel
- | date = [[2006-06-10]]
- | id = 1149950890.204481.35810@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
- | newsgroup = humanities.philosophy.objectivism
- | url = http://groups.google.com/group/humanities.philosophy.objectivism/browse_frm/thread/79fd9ef419914f2e/?hl=en#
- | accessdate = 2006-06-10
}}</ref>
