Talk:Toronto Blue Jays

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Derek, "sabermetrically" refers to "sabermetrics", which is a term referring to the use of advanced baseball statistics to analyze baseball. It was coined from the acryonym SABR, for the Society for American Baseball Research. A quick google search for sites like http://www-math.bgsu.edu/~albert/papers/saber.html should give you a good idea of what is being referred to, basically that the Ricciardi is trying to use a more scientific approach to his job. Dze27 19:31 Nov 30, 2002 (UTC)

Wow, someone needs to fix the Level of Excellence. Hinske on the level already? Ha. --Madchester 03:52, 2005 Apr 20 (UTC)

Contents 1 Growing Pains 2 Brantley 3 Record 4 2003 Season 5 Rivals 6 See Also 7 Removed "Rivals" listing 8 Annual History 9 2006 Season 10 2006 Season Title 11 Recent History 12 Great Blue Jays Message Boards 13 World Series Predictions 14 Heading titles 15 Historical Corrections 16 Season-by-Season recrods 17 The Sabermetric Regime 18 Too Much Information 19 www.jaysfever.com 20 Fan Base

[edit] Growing Pains

"The Toronto Blue Jays came into existence in 1976 as one of two teams slated to join the American League for the next season (the other being the Seattle Mariners). Toronto had been mentioned as a major league city several times in the previous century and had been home to the Toronto Maple Leafs of the International League from 1930 to 1967. The San Francisco Giants were considering a move to the city until the team was purchased by Bob Lurie in 1976." Previous 'century'? Is this correct or should it be decade? Seems like a big jump to go from the late 1800s to 1976...

It was the Seattle Pilots . Not the Mariners why does this correction keep getting un corrected?! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Alderwood (talk • contribs) .

If you are referring to the Blue Jays expansion cousins, it was the Mariners, not the Pilots. The Seattle Pilots were an expansion team in 1969 that became the Milwaukee Brewers after only one year. Resolute 04:39, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm usually more careful. I do know that the Seattle Metropolitans were the first American team to win the stanley cup (Alderwood)

[edit] Brantley

I heard one a broadcast that Brantley was also the outfield coach; he basically tells the outfielders whether to play deep or shallow depending on the situation. Do teams really have an outfield coach, cuz I've never heard of that before. --Madchester 21:16, 2005 May 5 (UTC)

No there is no such thing as an outfield coach. Some teams however have a bench coach, which I guess do the simple things that the manager is too busy to do. Mickey Brantley is currently the hitting coach for the Blue Jays. Croat Canuck 05:02, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

"Outfield coach"? What a cushy job. Where do I sign up? I could spend all game just waving a scorecard, a la Connie Mack, sending them either out or in. d:) Wahkeenah 05:19, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

The Seattle PILOTS not Mariners The Pilots became the Milwaukee Brewers. You can look it up!

[edit] Record

Is someone going to be updating the record and roster on a regular basis? --Madchester 01:46, 2005 May 7 (UTC)

I've deleted the current year's record several times now. Information that changes this frequently does not belong here, it is of no use whatsoever. It should be added once the season is complete, since the data will not change after that point. Mindmatrix 01:15, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 2003 Season

This really shouldn't be in the present tense anymore.

Be bold--Will2k 19:37, May 31, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Rivals

With the new division weighted schedule, I don't know how much of a rivalry we have with teams outside of the AL East. --Madchester July 8, 2005 05:30 (UTC)

[edit] See Also

How do I provide a link to the new article "List of Toronto Blue Jays players" when on the edit page it only says {See Also: MLB teams}}? Croat Canuck 15:33, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

To answer your question direct, you can put your link directly under the template as such:

{{MLB see also Blue Jays}}

[[List of Toronto Blue Jays players]]

However, the list seems to be very similar to the "Players of Note" link. I would suggest maybe mergeing the two pages or linking the List off of the "Players of Note" page instead of this page. The "Players of Note" link is part of a template so that all 30 teams have a somewhat consistent format. Whichever route you take, remember you can always change it later, and so can other contributors. Be bold! --CrazyTalk 19:03, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Removed "Rivals" listing

I removed the "Rivals" listings at the top. We know who their division rivals are already because of the MLB template on the page. As for geographic rival, the Blue Jays did not play the Expos for the vast majority of their years together in the big leagues, other than for the exhibition Pearson Cup (which probably deserves a mention somewhere but doesn't neatly fit into the existing headers). The concept of a rivalry is a subjective one and while it could be given some treatment in the article I don't think that it goes well with the other facts at the top of the page. Dze27 16:42, August 22, 2005 (UTC)

The "Rivalries Fairy" struck all 30 ball team sites yesterday after a period of dormancy. It makes sense to have separate articles about specific and long-lasting rivalries, and that has already been done: Yankees-Bosox, Cubs-Cardinals, Cubs-Chisox, and especially Giants-Dodgers, the Mother of All Baseball Rivalries. Other so-called "rivalries" tend to be short-lived and situational. For example, I could argue for a Jays-A's rivalry... if it were 1989 right now. Wahkeenah 17:11, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Annual History

Ideally, I think it would be the best if 2004 and 2005 could be trimmed down to the length of the 2002/2003 seasons. Maybe in the future we could leave the immediate pass two years as a longer, more detailed history, but the rest could be stubs. Canadian popcan 02:58, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] 2006 Season

Will they stay in Toronto or will they move?, and what about added the 2006 Season to the article? anyone help thanks. Maoririder 20:59, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

• Where did you hear that they are even thinking of moving? This is not the Montreal Expos, and have a stable ownership and fan base. SFrank85 02:50, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] 2006 Season Title

Anyone have ideas on what we should label the new year? I was thinking 2006: A New Hope... - BTerran

[edit] Recent History

I plan on trimming the recent year articles by some margin. There are some notes to mention over the past couple of years, but the details are way too gory right now. If anything articles about the championship run should be at this length instead of the current status. Anyone object? I'll leave this up for a few days, before I make the edit final. Wxthewx99 17:50, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Great Blue Jays Message Boards

Seeing that the message board on the official Jays website is usually flooded with spam, I suggest you register and talk with other refugees from the official board.Just click on this link : http://diehardbaseball.com

[edit] World Series Predictions

Ken Rosenthal from Fox Sports has picked the Toronto Blue Jays to win the 2006 World Series. [[1]] Should this be included in the article somewhere? --M vopni 17:04, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Heading titles

Is it just me, or do heading titles such as "A New Hope" seem borderline POV. This is supposed to be an encyclopedia entry about the team - some of these make it seem more like a fansite. --mtz206 (talk) 20:23, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Historical Corrections

I corrected erroneous information under the "Getting Competitive" and "We're Heading to the Dome!!!" sections of the franchise history. In 1988, the Jays did not finish second in the division, but tied the Brewers for third. A visit to the Baseball Reference site or even the Wikipedia article 1988 in baseball confirms this. I accordingly also eliminated just as in 1988 from the part in "We're Heading to the Dome!!!" that said that in 1990 the Jays finished second to the Red Sox. Gujuguy 01:43, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Season-by-Season recrods

I think this would be an important addition to the article. Can anyone do that?

[edit] The Sabermetric Regime

Is it just me, or does the Sabermetric Regime section seem just a WEE bit too long? I mean, it's great to have detail, but season-by-season records just seem to be too much. The pages of other teams don't nearly have this much detail on individual seasons, if at all. I propose paring down the entire section to the size of the other sections, with a similar structure (just small/passing overviews of seasons and memorable occurrences from the period, in this case 2002 to the present day). Anybody object? Gujuguy 03:46, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Too Much Information

The lengthy, year by year synopsis of the 2003-2006 seasons goes into a fantastic amount of detail, that is all very irrelevent to the main Toronto Blue Jays article. I can understand more lengthy submissions about invidiual seasons like 1985, 1988, 1991, 1992 or 1993 when the team had much more significant moments.

I posted on this originally in February to no response, and I call out again to posters to give me some feedback. I seriously think it needs to be shortned or rerouted to their own individual, year by year accounts like 2003 in Toronto Blue Jays history (if posters are so inclined).

A current events section could also be added as it appears on other clubs pages. Feedback from folks with the same or opposing opinion, are requested. I do not want revert wars to begin.

--Wxthewx99 05:12, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, the page is currently at 37kb total. Check out Wikipedia:Article_size#Splitting_a_page, it may be helpful in considerations. Though I don't have much time to lend personally to research or work on this sort of endeavour, I'm inclinded to support any changes that make the page more closely resemble other MLB team pages while at the same time not "losing" any unique information. BigNate37 15:49, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

There shouldn't be a current events section. Wikipedia is not a news agency. As far as reducing the size of the article, the history section can be a summarized with a main article of the History of Toronto Blue Jays. Kingjeff 16:20, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] www.jaysfever.com

We are people from www.jaysfever.com. We would like to have our site url added in the external links of this article if all possible. Thanks.

Though small in terms of original content, your site seems to fit criteria #5 at WP:External Links#What should be linked to. Seems to fit the criterion, though I didn't check your articles against this one to see if the content there is provided here already. There are significant current-events articles on the Blue Jays already counting the websites currently listed under Toronto Blue Jays#External links. I'll leave the article as-is, and if another editor agrees that your site qualifies under WP:External Links#What should be linked to, then by all means add it there. BigNate37 01:53, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fan Base

The current entry claims:

"The Toronto Blue Jays are the third most popular professional team in Toronto, after the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Toronto Raptors."

If this or something to this effect is to be included, it has to include the manner in which this is measured (attendance? survey? television ratings? gut-feeling of the poster?). The truth, or appropriateness, of this statement depends entirely on how this fact purports to be measured. -- Matty j 02:01, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Blue Jays 2005 total attendance: 1,977,949 [2]

Raptors 2005-06 total: 699,242 [3]

Maple Leafs 2005-06 total: 795,747 [4]

Agronuats 2004 total: 232,318[5]

Well, 80 home games help Blue Jays top the total attendance in town. ccwaters 17:45, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Blue Jays have a greater seating capacity and the Blue Jays have more games. Kingjeff 17:46, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Exactly, there are many ways to qualify/quantify a fan base. That's why we are asking you to specify your criteria and back it up with sources. ccwaters 17:56, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

This isn't my claim. I never put the fan base in. Kingjeff 18:26, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Ok... then what exactly is your claim? ccwaters 18:30, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Don't you see I don't have a claim. I just added back a simple inacurate revert. Kingjeff 21:43, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Enough with the semantics. Maybe you didn't originally contribute [6] the disputed statement, but you are actively defending it and stating it is a fact [7], [8], [9], [10]. We're just asking for clarification and related sources. And no, reminding you of the 3RR policy is in no way a personal attack. ccwaters 22:31, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

I apologize if this is the wrong way to post a comment related to ths discussion, but I definitely disagree with the notion that the Blue Jays are the thirs most popular team next to the Raptors.

It's difficult to compare attendance numbers, so it's probably best to not steer the discussion in that sense. However, television numbers are extremely relevant. The Blue Jays average just under 400,000 viewers per game. These numbers are miles ahead of the Raptors who drew much less. I recall the Raptors drawing as few as 29,000 viewers last season. I'd love to get my hands on the official numbers, but I can't see the Raptors doing as well as the Jays in that aspect.

That's probably the best indication of how team's do in terms of fandom. It may also be worthwhile to investigate things such as merchandise sales.

If one wanted to look at attendance as means of comparing the two, while Raps ticket prices are much more expensive, to counter that, the Jays play double as many home games as them. And the ticket differential isn't as big as one might imagine.

I just can't see how the Raptors are more popular than the Jays. Perhaps this was back in 2000 or so when the Raptors made the playoffs, but alot has occured since then.

NB: The outfield coach for the Blue Jays is actually Marty Pevey.