Talk:Toph

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Archive #1

Contents

[edit] First Metalbender

Toph is not the first Metalbender. Watch the last episode again. When the Dai Li captures the Generals, you can see they're bending chains, with the metal sound effects as an added note. Though, yes this happens after Toph learns how to bend metal, I highly doubt the Dai Li somehow learned to bend metal in the span of one day. I believe they've known how to bend metal for a while now. Kulaguy 19:47, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

How do you know they're bending the metal? Did they say they were bending the metal? Did the metal freeze in the air or suddenly change direction with no outward force acting upon it? They're long chains and whatnot, the metal is never not connected to the Dai Li agents, it's just like a person controlling a lasso. JBK405 19:50, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

They don't have to say they're bending metal. It's pretty obvious they're bending metal. They threw the metal, and bended it to hold the Generals. And what do you mean the metal is never connected to the Dai Li? IIRC, they hid it in their sleeves, and then threw it, and the end of the chains had a handcuff like appearance that cuffed the Generals. Kulaguy 20:48, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
Website says she is the only one. Dai Li just threw them. H2P (Yell at me for what I've done) 20:58, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
Mmhmm... Then go on a post a link to it. If the website says she's the only one, go on and post a link to it so I can verify it. Kulaguy 21:00, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
Nick's site doesn't allow us to link to paticular pages. H2P (Yell at me for what I've done) 21:09, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
How convenient. Well then, just give me directions on which button to click on to get to the area where it says Toph is the only Metalbender. Kulaguy 21:25, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
I can't find it right now, someone quoted it verbatim before and I had to change it. I have to get to work, I'll find it later. H2P (Yell at me for what I've done) 21:33, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I said they cuffs were never not connected, meaning the Dai Li were always holding on to one end of the chain. They don't need to bend the metal, just pull or push like any normal human being in order to move the cuffs. Like I said, it's just like using a lasso, you hold one end, move your hands and arms, and the other end does things like wrapping around other objects. Not everything in Avatar has to be related to Bending. JBK405 22:07, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

It sounds like he was weilding the chain like a Chain whip. See [1] & [2] for example.(Ghostexorcist 22:49, 2 December 2006 (UTC))

Not exactly the same, those videos were primarily swinging, whereas the Dai Li were pushing/pulling, but it's the same basic concept, it's a chain of metal with one end controlled by moving the other end. No bending needed. JBK405 23:13, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I know those videos don't show it up close, but one of the chain whip’s techniques is flinging it out and quickly pull it back. Usually, the whip is concealed in the hand, with the chains being held in a folded “zig-zag” pattern between the fingers. When it is thrown out, the target can be stung with the Chain whip's dagger end or entangle in the chained links. One common hiding area for the Chain whip was either in the hand or in the sleeve. Granted, the chains have cuffs on the end, but it sounds like the same principle.
I’m just trying to establish a possible origin for the technique they use since the show is heavily influenced by Chinese martial arts. This would be “skill” and not “bending”.(Ghostexorcist 23:38, 2 December 2006 (UTC))

Then yes, it's the exact same thing (What the Dai Li do is exactly what you just described, the chains are held within their sleeves, they fling their arms out, the chains extend outwards and the cuffs snag their prisoner, and they draw them back in). It looks like a pretty good candidate for the origin of this little doohicky (Although we can't say that in the article since we have no source). JBK405 23:43, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

THANK YOU! Finally, someone could prove me wrong, rather than just say "Oh, the website said it was bending but I can't link to where it says it right now." I respect people who can refute my points with evidence. Yeah, it's odd I'm so happy I lost this arguement. Kulaguy 01:06, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

No problem. Here is some further evidence. I couldn't find a good pic that shows the Dai Li deploying the Chains, but here is one of the Generals in cuffs [the purple link below]. Note the similarities between the linked bars of the Chain whip with that of the linked bars of the cuffs ...

a chain whip
Enlarge
a chain whip

Image:Avatar220epshot.jpg

No metal bending at all, just a length of chain and LOTS of practice! Here is a better EXAMPLE of a Three Section Plum Flower Chain Whip. Notice the links are long and skinny like the chain used by the Dai Li.(Ghostexorcist 12:40, 3 December 2006 (UTC))

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Why in Toph profile said "don't put she's a metal bender"? [Unsigned]

Because Metalbending is just a subsection of Earthbending, not its own style. JBK405 00:46, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
Metalbending would be its own style if the show adhered to the five Chinese elements of Earth, Fire, Wood, Water and Metal. But it only adheres to the Four elements, leaving metal out. (Ghostexorcist 00:53, 9 December 2006 (UTC))

Well yeah, it would, but then Airbending wouldn't be here, and there'd be Woodbending, too. JBK405 00:58, 9 December 2006 (UTC) ----------------------------------

Directions to the website statement that Toph is the only Earthbender capable of bending metal: http://www.nick.com/all_nick/tv_supersites/avatar2 After the load screen, click on the point of The Guru near the wall of Ba Sing Se on the world map, then Gear and More on the bar and then in the iron coffin.[this comment was unsigned ]

After first watching the episodes I instantly believed, after seeing the metal cuffs, that they were not thrown, or bended but launched with a mechanical mechanism of some sort. Just what I think. I will rewatch the episode to confirm this. One2ManyIOUs 20:33, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

One quick note. I was the one that added what family Toph's Southern Praying Mantis style is. I read it on shaolin.com. A kung fu website. It's Chu Gar Southern Praying Mantis Style. Just in case anyone was wondering. DJ168.212.126.128 15:34, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

This is also mentioned in an external link about Toph. What was the exact page on shaolin.com? Was it a forum? Forums are not to be trusted.(Ghostexorcist 10:41, 16 December 2006 (UTC))

[edit] Rename article to "Toph Bei Fong"?

Since it's undisputed now that she has a last name, should the article reflect that? --Crisu 15:59, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I think having Toph Bei Fong as a redirect is sufficient, since she's hardly ever addressed with the full name, and its normal practice to name articles by a short version of a name if the person is overwhelmingly known by the short version. For example, "William Jefferson Clinton" is a redirect to "Bill Clinton".--Fyre2387 (talk • contribs) 16:14, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Name Etymology

There seems to be some differences in opinion about the Trivia section mentioning possible meanings of Toph. First, I wonder if anyone else is of the opinion we should add a small section on name meanings to clear up the clutter in the trivia, since it'd take out 2 of the larger entries. Next, there seems to be some debate about whether or not there is need for citations and if meanings are pure speculation and thus don't belong here. I think the many possible meanings are interesting and important, but the interpretations could be cut for the sake of remaining more "factual." (As in, mention that "Toph may be a play on the word 'tough'" and leave it at that.) Is that needed or should they remain as is? Imbrii 17:22, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I've discovered there are many sites referencing "Toph" and "Tophet" in the Bible, most sites focusing on translation variations (tambourine/timbrel/drum are the usual meanings) but no site sticks out as a good one to use as a reference. Two more of the more dictionary-line ones. [3] [4] Anyone have opinions as to where would be best to use? Imbrii 17:44, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Admittedly I'm biased in that I find etymology interesting while others don't deem it important enough to keep on the page, but Toph's name ties into terms that fit so well I think it's worth keeping. I don't think it's useless fancruft. What are other people's opinions? I don't want to start an edit war or anything. Imbrii 04:02, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I think etymology is fine, provided that we can source things in it. Unless we hear direct from somebody, it will involve a little bit of speculation, but its acceptable in this context, I think.--Fyre2387 (talk • contribs) 04:18, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dong

"In "City of Walls and Secrets," the names Katara and Toph used at the party were Kuā Měi (姱 美) for Katara and Dòng (侗) for Toph. Toph was not happy with hers because while Kuā Měi translates as 'fascinating beauty, Dòng means 'ignorant' or 'rustic.' "

I just wanted to note that Dong or Tong (侗) is also the first name of Zhou Tong (monk), the archery teacher of Song Dynasty general Yue Fei. That's not a very good first name for girl or guy!(Ghostexorcist 22:08, 6 December 2006 (UTC))

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