Talk:Tom Baker

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Someone needs to link to jelly babies from this article :) 66.92.237.111 06:28, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 Reorganisation 2 Somebody killed Tom on september, 2nd ;-) 3 False Alarm 4 Was John Stewart Baker Jewish? 5 Father inventor of steel beverage can 6 Little Britain 7 Post-Doctor Who TV works 8 Poor categorisation?

[edit] Reorganisation

I hope this article is more logically organised now. I removed a few tiny bits, for example the statement that his post-Dr Who career is unremarkable - see his CV on his web site! --TimPope 21:02, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Somebody killed Tom on september, 2nd ;-)

On http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_de_septiembre Tom baker is said to have died in 1986, is there any other actor called Tom Baker that may be meant?

I don't believe so. This is probably derived from the rumour that Tom died of a drug overdose in 1982 (mentioned in the article, by the way). --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 09:14, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

Gary Gillatt, former editor of Doctor Who Magazine, wrote an amusing little tale in one of his editorials for the magazine back in about 1998. Apparently, just a short while after HarperCollins' massive publicity drive for Baker's 1997 autobiography, he was phoned up by a journalist on a national newspaper who wanted to know in what year Baker had died. :-) Angmering 10:06, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

I remember the erronous report of Baker's death. I actually read about it in a reference book for doll collectors, of all things, under a listing for a Tom Baker Doctor Who doll or action figure. This was about 1985-ish and I remember being quite depressed because I had just gotten into Doctor Who. As it happened I actually remained under the impression that Baker was dead until Reeltime Pictures put out a Myth Makers interview video with him a number of years later. The funny thing is I had obviously forgotten that I had seen Tom Baker in an episode of Remington Steele (at the time my favorie show) in 1984... 23skidoo 00:09, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] False Alarm

Rest assured my dear friends that the best ever Doctor is alive and well, 71 now and somewhat heavier than his days of saving planets but far from dead! Anyhow, I just wanted to explain my edit. Minor though it may be, the filming sessions of Logopolis took place in December 1980 and so I stated that this was when Tom Baker completed his stint as the Doctor; apart from that, it is correct that the first episode of the story went out in February 1981. Inacuracy leads to imprecision and we can't have that on an encyclopaedia! Ragusan 11 October 2005

Location filming for Logopolis ran from December 16 and December 18, 1980, with an extra day on December 22. Studio work commenced on January 8, 1981 (the regeneration itself being filmed on January 9) and continued from January 22 to January 24, with a gallery-only filming in TC6 on January 28. Source: The Television Companion. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 23:25, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

Well I must have based the thought on the location filming. Still, its a bit close to 1980 wouldn't you say? :) Ragusan 13 October 2005

[edit] Was John Stewart Baker Jewish?

Here's a bit of a puzzle. The biography at Tom Baker's official website refers to his father, John Stewart Baker, as "a Jewish sailor". So does the rather extensive family history on this fan site. However, the genaeology provided at the same fan site lists ancestors of John Stewart Baker with the surnames Baker, Stewart, Grieves, Burnell, none of which sound at all Jewish. Furthermore, there's a pattern of naming sons after relatives that, according to Vulturell, is highly uncommon in European Jewry. Vulturell has emailed the author of the fan site, who says that it's well-known that John Baker was Jewish, but did not provide a specific citation.

Does anyone have any more concrete information about this? I'd normally say that the official site's biography would be sufficient, but Vulturell's concerns are worth investigating further. (There's been discussion about this here, here and here, and I thought it would be better to consolidate it here.)

If we're looking for a Jewish ancestor for John Stewart Baker, I think the best candidate is his paternal grandmother (Tom's great-grandmother), a notable lacuna in the genaeology page. We're told that John Stewart Baker's paternal grandfather was a farmer named John Baker — improbable as it may sound, it's not impossible that John Baker might have married a Jewish woman. That would have made Thomas Victor Baker Jewish according to the traditional definition, which means that his son John Stewart Baker might well have considered himself Jewish. (Who knows whether any of them were observant or not, but the discussion here is of ancestry.) Of course, all this is supposition, but I don't think we should dismiss the official site biography out of hand. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 18:07, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Also note that Baker does not mention any Jewish ancestry in his autobiography book, and says his mother was anti-Semitic (he could have brought up the fact that his father was Jewish in the same paragraph, but didn't). Vulturell 18:14, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

There is a photo of Tom Baker's parents here (you might want to turn off your sound before clicking). Arniep 19:02, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

I've taken out all the family background info for his father as there is clearly conflicting info between various sources so until one or the other is disproven we should leave it out. Arniep 00:27, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

What conflict? The family tree does not mention religion or specific ethnicity. We can thus say he was of "English and Scottish" descent without specifying that he was also Jewish, if that was the case. What is your reason to dispute the family tree? Surely, again, a site that has wedding photos of his parents did their research. Vulturell 00:30, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

As I said on your own page, without actually talking to a family, if you rely on official documents only it may not give the true picture of someone's ancestry. Arniep 00:49, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

OK, I'm taking that as a statement of admission that those ARE official documents. Those documents state that some of his ancestors were born in Scotland. Can we say that his father was a "sailor of part Scottish descent"? And for the record, throughout our discussions, you've used family trees and lastnames as reliable sources. Check your work on Marlon Brando and the Tyrone Power scenario. In Brando's case, you even told me that maybe he said he was part French because it was "fashionable", but disputed this ancestry because of a family tree you had. Vulturell 00:54, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

• Update:

The webmaster of the geneology web site sent me a link to this article, located on her site. It's from an article in Look Magazine - it says "Tom was brought up by his mother as a Catholic zealot, though his father was Jewish ("A contradiction in sperms," he says). He volunteered at 16 for a monastery and a life of virtue, because among the people he knew in Liverpool, a priest was a hero." [1], which leads me to believe that either:

• A. The article is completely in error, and could be the initial source (i.e. the patient zero) of all the other online errors
• B. That Baker's father was referred to as "Jewish", while he was really half-Jewish or (as Josiah suggested) had a Jewish grandmother, who was thus hard to track down geneologically
• Because
• C. if we trust the article, we also have to trust the site's geneology, which is distinctly non-Jewish on his paternal grandmother's side.
• Here's the thing - I looked through the other articles. Almost every one spends several paragraphs on his strong Catholic background. None even hint at a Jewish background or a mixture of faiths. One says that he was "was packed off by his parents to a monastery." [2]. Another says - in a direct quote - ""I'm very grateful for my entire past," he smiles. "I'm grateful to the Germans for having bombed Liverpool and relieved the tedium of my childhood. I'm grateful for the bigoted upbringing that passed for being a passionate Christian, like the hatred of the Jews or the hatred of Protestants." [3].
• So - in summation - what we had before was one vaguely reliable-looking source saying that his father was Jewish, and everything else saying a deafening "no". This is what I think we still have. Either his father had some Jewish roots - but was not fully or even half Jewish, or the article made an error for whatever reason, and it's been copied around ever since. But I think there is really no way, based on the geneology and the complete lack of acknowledgement of the subject in any of the full-length mentions of Baker's background, including his autobiography, that his father was "fully Jewish". I haven't gotten a reply from the official site yet. Vulturell 06:20, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

I recall (but can't cite, sorry) Tom Baker saying that his father was Jewish. The reference wasn't made ostentatiously, or even discreetly, just as a statement of passing interest. It doesn't seem to be a big deal to Tom, and probably should not concern us greatly in his biography page, as things like his Roman Catholic upbringing have had more effect on him. There seems to be a desire among a certain section of Wikipedia to classify everyone as Jewish or non-Jewish. This is problematic because it isn't really possible to define what a Jew is and is not (or the definition is subjective). DavidFarmbrough 08:53, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree it is not important. However, I think we should not include the other info about him having Scottish ancestry as his father's ancestry seems to be uncertain at the moment. Arniep 14:34, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Arniep. At the moment, we should just leave it as is, until we know beyond a reasonable doubt. Either the article made a mistake and his father wasn't Jewish at all, or his father had some distant Jewish ancestry and maybe "considered" himself Jewish, which is why (if he did) Tom referred to him as "Jewish". But either way, it's not that important to him and Tom is "barely" Jewish ethnically. Vulturell 17:48, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

As I said before, you are making assumptions that the family research is reliable. I would only consider it accurate if the person had actually spoken to family members as a version derived from official documents alone does not take account of illegitimacy, adoption or other possibilities. In my own family an ancestor of mine has a person down as their father on their birth certificate but it is known that the father was in fact somebody else by members of the family. Arniep 19:04, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Of course, you're always in trouble if you assume that anything may be even vaguely true on the basis that Tom Baker said it. :-) Angmering

LOL, indeed. Vulturell 21:31, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Forgive me, but who cares if he's Jewish? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.89.238.127 (talk • contribs) 11:36, April 9, 2006 (UTC)

Well, it may not be of vital interest, but if the article is going to say anything about his ancestry it should at least be accurate. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 23:45, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Father inventor of steel beverage can

I couldn't find a source for the above claim, so I've removed it. If someone can find a source, please feel free to add it back again. WLD 00:09, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Little Britain

I thought also that he did the voiceovers for the television series Little Britain Ericmakesthree 12:31, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

On a related note, re this quote "On 2006-11-17, to mark the start of Series 3 of Little Britain, Baker read the continuity announcements on BBC One from 1900 to 2130 UTC." This looks unlikely. That date hasn't even happened yet. Was this 2005, perhaps? (I am not a Little Britain watcher, so I have no idea.) Telsa (talk) 15:38, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Post-Doctor Who TV works

Tom Baker also made a great role in tv series Swiss Toni as eccentric film director who directs an advert for Swiss Toni's Cars, which contains a nun, goat and midget, as his every film did. I wonder if the highly eccentric role is a spoof of Baker's own real-life antics or even a homage. Eps 18:37, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Tom Baker also played Sherlock Holmes in a 1982 Hound of the Baskervilles. Can someone update the bio to reflect this? Thanks. (JT)

[edit] Poor categorisation?

I think that the classification of Tom Baker as an "atheist" is overly simplistic, as from what I've heard, he embraces what might better be called a holistic worldview (closer to Deepak Chopra or Joseph Campbell than to Richard Dawkins). For this reason, I am removing his placement in that category for now. 71.168.205.168 22:36, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

It seems as though, to a certain extent, Wikipedia exhibits a tendency to class everyone as either religious or atheist; for instance, the "Category:English atheists" page also includes H.G. Wells, who was a humanist, and Lord Byron, who was agnostic. 71.168.205.168 22:41, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

My mistake, Wells was a Unitarian. 71.168.205.168 22:43, 4 December 2006 (UTC)