Talk:Tlaloc

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Contents 1 Matlolcueitl 2 The picture 3 Teotihuacan 4 Derivation 5 "also known as Nuhualpilli" 6 "Tlaloc in El Savador?" 7 God of Lightning?

[edit] Matlolcueitl

• The reference to Matlolcueitl was removed because 1) "She of the Jade Skirt" is the Chalchiuhtlicue and 2) I could find no reference to Matlolcueitl which wasn't itself a reference to this page. Corrections welcome. -- Dystopos 19:03, 28 November 2004 (UTC)

[edit] The picture

• The picture is REALLY FREAKY!

• I think the original artwork depiction of Tlaloc is rather good, but that a PD Pre-Columbian depiction would be more appropriate. Other thoughts? -- Infrogmation 21:11, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

• I agree that a Pre-Columbian depiction would be more appropriate. I looked myself -- not extensively but I looked -- when this drawing was posted. I couldn't find anything that was not copyrighted (understandably) and I couldn't even pull up a good "fair use" image. Also, note that a JPG was pulled earlier this year for copyright problem. Someone did add a link at the bottom, which helps somewhat. In the end, my thoughts were that this drawing was better than no drawing. -- Madman 00:40, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Teotihuacan

• How can you possibly know if sacrifices were done to the rain god by the Teotihuacanos? Wasn't Teotihuacan occupied during classic period? -- Tlalocatecútli 14:41, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Derivation

• I have read that Tláloc is short for Tlalocatecútli - agglutination in Náhuatl of the stem words tlál(li) - earth, ócan - paradise and tecútli - lord. This literally means that Tláloc is the lord of Tlalócan, the wattery paradise beneath the earth. Is this correct? -- Tlalocatecútli 14:20, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

• Where did you read this? The derivation seems quite likely, though the assumption that its literal meaning is also a religious meaning is suspect. If you can provide a citation, we can add the etymology and its reference to the article. --Dystopos 22:38, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "also known as Nuhualpilli"

• According to who? I can't find this in any of my many books about the Mexicans. -- Tlalocatecútli 17:33, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

• The name Nuhualpilli is used in reference to Tlaloc in the Song of Tlaloc from the Florentine Codex. Although referenced as the name of the god of stone workers, it is, indeed, on of Tlaloc's names. 02:18, -- 71.56.236.98 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Tlaloc in El Savador?"

Since he was the MEXICAN rain god how could he have been worshiped in El Salvador? Do they speak Náhuatl down there? I don't think so but maybe some similar Uto-Aztecan language like Náhuat. All Meso-American cultures have a similar rain god like like Cocijo (Miztec), Tajin (Totonac) or Chac (Mayan). Is this really correct? -- Tlalocatecútli 21:56, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, Nahuatl-related languages were (and are still) spoken in areas of mid-Central America, and a number of peoples with cultures and traditions closely linked to those common to the central mexican plateaux were living in the Salvadoran region by at least Postclassic times; see for eg Pipil, whose language Nawat is indeed Uto-Aztecan. Classical Nahuatl was also quite a lingua franca of the region and traders, and considerable traffic and migration along the Pacific Guatemalan coast into the Salvadoran region from the Mexican uplands ensured a dynamic cultural exchange between these two separated areas.--cjllw | TALK 00:13, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] God of Lightning?

According to The Aztecs - People of the Sun by Alphonso Caso, Tlaloc is also the god of lightning so the text that said so should have remained.216.67.161.230 16:08, 5 December 2006 (UTC)Tlalocatecútli

Yes indeed, Tlaloc also had association with lightning and thunder, and quite a few other phenomena associated with water- storms, flood, etc. Can easily be readded (was it removed?)

Article also needs some rework to emphasise Tlaloc's significance to central mexican precolumbian cultures generally, and not just the Aztec/Mexica who were only relatively recent newcomers on the scene.--cjllw | TALK 23:04, 5 December 2006 (UTC)