User talk:Timwi/Archive/May 04

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Contents 1 Interfering 2 South Caucasian languages 3 Cryptic break tags 3.1 Short partial answer 4 Sound recordings 5 Vocabulary Project 6 Swap a page with its redirect 7 Fixing a table 8 Double redirects 9 Sort algorithms table

[edit] Interfering

Hi. Could it be that you are less important to me than you think you are? Let me ask you again to leave my user page alone. I wouldn't dream of changing yours. Whenever you delete your name you just prove my point that you'd like to rewrite history. Face the facts and don't avoid responsibility for your own actions. Wikikiwi, Agony Aunt, 1 May 2004

Dear Wikikiwi. Could it be that you are unable to comprehend that by placing polemic remarks about other Wikipedians on your User page, you are hurting their feelings? Personal attacks are disallowed on Wikipedia, and as such, I am entitled to remove my name from your User page if I feel the context you use it in constitutes a personal attack. Face the facts and don't pretend that your User page, which is generously hosted by Wikimedia (as opposed to yourself) and editable by everyone (as opposed to only yourself) was in any way your property or anything. Thank you. — Timwi 14:41, 1 May 2004 (UTC)

[edit] South Caucasian languages

Hi Timwi, I see that you have shunted many links that previously pointed to South Caucasian languages so that they now point to Georgian (Kartvelian) languages.
Thanks for the work, but unfortunately the South Caucasian languages page had been moved inappropriately. The names "Georgian" and "Kartvelian" for that family appear to be less used in English literature than "South Caucasian". Moreover, they are somewhat politically charged (while the Georgian/Kartvelian language is the most important member of the group, and three of the four languages are spoken mostly in Georgia, the fourth language is spoken almost only in Turkey, by people who also speak Turkish and consider themselves Turkish citizens). It may also be historically inaccurate, since those languages apparently split apart well before the country got that name. I have asked for the redirect to be deleted so that the full page can be moved back.
All the best,
Jorge Stolfi 15:10, 2 May 2004 (UTC)

Fixed, thanks :-) — Timwi 15:50, 2 May 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Cryptic break tags

You commented on one of the LoPbN WM: items,

I'm not sure why you put '<br>'s in here?

Fair question. IIRC, it had to do with the effects of combining several pages of partial table markup (which you edited, i assume to move the breaks) by a series of subst: calls, and then pasting that combined markup into a single MW: page that will be called via msg:. Roughly, new-lines that were needed in the markup invoked by the msg: call were getting lost, and the breaks avoided the "collapsing" of the markup into something that no longer worked right, IIRC without any negative effect.

I don't remember if it is the pasting that makes a difference, but at the time, an extra paste step, documenting the effect of the history of changes of the component pages' changing content, seemed worthwhile.

All that was before i read of the changes in, what is it, 1.3?, that will affect these macro facilities, which is why i never finished documenting the method: when we can nest msg: calls, i expect that the breaks will no longer be needed (or if they are, at least that you and i will be able to agree on the need).

Let's both remember to experiment and/or talk when 1.3 goes into production here(was that 2:00-3:00 today??!!!) and see if we aren't then in agreement on how to get from the pages, e.g.,

List of people X Links

List of people Xy Links

List of people Xyz Links

to the page

List of people Xyz

IMO, the breaks are not worth discussing before then; even if you were just irrationally irritated by them (which i doubt), and even if (to keep my head straight) i have to put them back into the Separator and the Bottom you presumably stripped them from, i'd be happy to hand-remove them from, e.g.

List of people Xyz

before saving them.

Will that cover us for now? If not, say so & let's talk further; and i can probably stand to put off the need to generate more breaks in the meantime.

Tnx for the query. --Jerzy(t) 07:57, 2004 May 12 (UTC)

I really don't know why your comments always seem incomprehensible and incoherent to me, Jerzy. Could you try to be shorter and more to the point in future, perhaps? — The mistake you made was to write several "subst"s into one row. The {| and |- table mark-ups only work if they occur at the beginning of a row. You tried to fix that by using <br>s, but the correct way to fix it would have been to write the "subst"s with linebreaks in between. — Timwi 16:40, 12 May 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Short partial answer

Tnx for the info, which i can apply in satisfying your apparent standards. --Jerzy(t) 19:04, 2004 May 12 (UTC)

[edit] Sound recordings

I just did Numbers in various languages and List of tongue-twisters for the Albanian ones. Let me know how they came out. Also, I see you still haven't done the German numbers :) Dori | Talk 18:19, May 18, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks! :-) Yeah, I'll do the numbers after my exams (two weeks). — Timwi 23:54, 18 May 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Vocabulary Project

Hi there, since I saw you registered as a translator I would like to know if you are interested in this. I have written a program for learning vocabulary. It is based on the belief that it is best to learn foreign words by learning typical sentences. I currently have files in English, French (with sound), Spanish, and Portuguese, Catalan is in the planning. The program can also be used for learning other stuff that works with the question/answer scheme, e.g. the theory for the driving licence or anatomy. It also uses images and sound files for alternation and in order to work on the pronunciation. If you are interested please check my page and let me know. Good luck with the exams. Get-back-world-respect 00:52, 22 May 2004 (UTC)

I now saw you also contributed to the salsa article. So perhaps you are interested in wikibooks about rueda de casino commands as well? english german Get-back-world-respect 12:43, 24 May 2004 (UTC)

Hi. Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. Thanks for your messages; I'll have a look at your stuff after my exams. Before then, I'm afraid I have to prioritise revision. — Timwi 17:10, 24 May 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Swap a page with its redirect

Would you please move the page Space Cruiser Yamato to Space Battleship Yamato for me? I've determined that the latter is the proper Americanization of the name of the anime series, but I can't movie it because the former already exists as a redirect to the latter. I see you're an admin, so you have the capability to swap these, right? If you'll do that for me then I'll go correct all the references in that article and in articles which link to it. Brian Kendig 20:23, 25 May 2004 (UTC)

Never mind, I found someone else to make the swap. Brian Kendig 14:06, 31 May 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Fixing a table

I've been told that you might be able to help me format the page Canadian federal election, 2004 (candidates) so that the Green Party (we're running a candidate in all 308 ridings) has its own column in the tables. If the table is fixed, I can make sure that Canadian Greens fill in the details. (They'll need thier own column for results, eventually). Thanks in advance! I'm very interested in the Wikipedia concept, but not adept at understanding or writing code...

Hi there. In future, please sign your messages (you can do so easily by just typing ~~~~ (four tildes)). — Yes, I guess I could do that, but not now, because my laptop is broken and I have an exam in a few days. — Timwi 12:55, 26 May 2004 (UTC)

Hope you don't mind but I tried this for Nova Scotia: let me know what you think. posting this here for now because I have no clue yet who posted the original question --Phil | Talk 16:24, May 26, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Double redirects

Howdy. I just learned that you run a bot to eliminate double-redirects. Unaware of this I've created a report of double redirects in the May 22nd database dump. It seems to have picked up a fair number of them. If your bot's active, it may be the case that I'm using a slightly different mechanism than yourself.

See the list at User:Topbanana/Reports/This_is_a_double_redirect, happy to discuss or swap notes if you're keen. - TB 09:22, 27 May 2004 (UTC)

Thanks a lot. That list will come in handy. I'll try to do something with it, but as you've probably noticed, my bot is a little prone to error. :) — Timwi 19:59, 27 May 2004 (UTC)

And no, I'm not currently running the bot actively searching for double-redirects. I try to find them in database dumps every once in a while, but I have exams coming up next week, so ... you know. — Timwi 20:06, 27 May 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Sort algorithms table

Why did you remove the sort algorithms table? The category-only layout removes useful information (classification of algorithms by complexity) and degrades overview and ability to navigate. Unless the category system can be improved to display as much information, it should be used as a complement, not as a replacement. Fredrik 21:40, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

I undeleted it, and then listed it on Votes for deletion. Please participate in the discussion there before putting it back into articles. Notice that the distinction between "O(n^3/2) or worse" and "O(n log n) or better" can still be achieved with categories. — Timwi 22:57, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

Thanks. Fredrik 01:37, 31 May 2004 (UTC)

Sorry if this annoyed you (I got the impression, though I could be wrong :) Fredrik 22:34, 31 May 2004 (UTC)

I'm not annoyed at you in particular, but I am annoyed at the general way in which people irrationally stick to previously-established but now-obsolete traditions (the boxes in this case) and completely oppose absolutely everything that deviates from it in even the slightest way (here, categories) even when it is obviously the better way of doing things. — Timwi 22:40, 31 May 2004 (UTC)

But again, my issue wasn't with just sticking to an obsolete table, which I agree is a worse way to do it than the category system, but that the table contained useful information beside being a plain list of articles. Now, would you support changing the current list in sort algorithm to the table on the talk page?

Cheers! Fredrik 23:04, 31 May 2004 (UTC)

The only "useful information" you have specifically mentioned so far was the arbitrary separation into two groups of complexity classes, and I've already told you numerous times that you can split the categories up in the same way if you want. Please let me know how many more times I need to tell you that before you get that this is no argument for the box. — Timwi 23:23, 31 May 2004 (UTC)

I was referring to the table on Talk:Sort algorithm, not Template:Table Sort Algorithms, and with the intention of placing it in Sort algorithm only. That the Template:Table Sort Algorithms is obsolete, I agreed with several posts ago, and with the Talk:Sort algorithm table in Sort algorithm, splitting up the category is unnecessary. My apologies again for being unclear. Fredrik 23:57, 31 May 2004 (UTC)

This thread started with you asking, Why did you remove the sort algorithms table? The only table I have ever removed was the MediaWiki template. The other one I only found out about just now. I have never seen it, never touched it, and never even suggested to remove or delete it. — Timwi 00:01, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I didn't say you removed it. But it had been in the article earlier and gotten removed, I was merely wondering if you had an opinion as to whether it'd be a good idea to put it back. Fredrik 00:04, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Ah. — Yes, I think it's a good idea. — Timwi 00:06, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Good. End of this silly quarrel :) Fredrik 00:08, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Yes :) — Timwi 00:13, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)