Talk:Timpani
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Timpani appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on April 13, 2005. |
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Timpani has had a peer review by Wikipedia editors which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article. |
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[edit] Rewrite
I tried to take this article to the next level. Let me know if I got a bit overzealous with the organization into sections, or if it's too technical. (I got logged out when I was making that edit. I am User:68.0.215.210.) – Flamurai 09:33, 29 Sep 2003 (UTC)
- I think it's great stuff. --Camembert
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- Thanks. Obviously, the history section is lacking. I'm hoping someone who knows a little more about pre-orchestral history than I do will fill it in someday. I might take a crack at the history starting in the 18th century. – Flamurai
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- I added a little more information to the marching tymp reference...namely the fact that they had fibreglass bowls...as well as the last usage of the marching variety in DCI
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[edit] Timpani/Tympani
I always thought that "Tympani" came from Greek, hence the alternate spelling with the "y". I also always thought that the correct singular was "tympanon". Yet, I don't want to edit that into the article, for fear that I may be wrong... Gus 01:38, 2004 Mar 24 (UTC)
[edit] Bartok Violin Concerto
Anyone know which violin concerto the passage played at the edge is in? I forgot the source I used when I originally wrote the article, and I don't have access to the score anymore. — Flamurai 07:26, Dec 11, 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Peer review comments
Holy cripes this is one long article, but that is great. I made a few minor typo corrections. see ya Jaberwocky6669 21:28, Dec 11, 2004 (UTC)
[edit] "Taps"
I didn't write the bit about taps. I've never actually heard that term used. Does anyone know if it applies to general tension rods or just to ones with a T-handle? – flamuraiTM 16:08, Feb 6, 2005 (UTC)
- I've only heard it used (in the UK) for the T-shaped handles. Lupin 02:01, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Timpani manufacturers
Lupin suggested this article include a list of timpani manufacturers. I'm not sure that's a good precedent. Let me know if you think this list should be included, and feel free to add to the list before it goes in the article. – flamuraiTM 00:50, Feb 7, 2005 (UTC)
- There's no reason to put this in the article - there many lists on many eclectic topics in wikipedia with an article all to themselves. I suggest you move this list to List of timpani manufacturers and link to that page from this article. Lupin 01:49, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Added repertoire
This is an article replete with great timpani information. I added some additional repertoire to the multiple timpanist section. I don't want to step on your feet by editing too much, but I'd love to help improve the article little by little. --Waterboy12 08:58, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- That's cool. The only think is there are a lot of works in each category... it'd be too much to list them all. Really the idea is to just give a few examples. – flamurai (t) 12:24, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Berlioz, Holst, Sibelius
The article mentions Grande Messe des Morts twice, which seems appropriate given its lavish use of timpani. But in the section on Timpanists, it really needs to be mentioned when talking about multiple timpanists. Perhaps it could be lost from Timpani in the Orchestra. (NB in that section it claims there are 10 timpanists, when I believe there are only 8).
It would also be good to point out that in Uranus (from The Planets Suite) the timpani echo one of the themes. I am sure that this happens in some Sibelius symphonies but cannot say which.
- Scherzo of the First is the big one. David Brooks
Hope this helps. Great article. VirtuousCircle 00:01, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Good points. I'll have to see where The Planets reference can be worked in. – flamurai (t) 20:42, Feb 13, 2005 (UTC)
- I checked some sources, and the Berlioz Requiem does indeed require 10 players playing 8 sets of drums. Also, isn't it Jupiter in which the timpani echo one of the themes? Once I check on that, I'll edit the movement in. – flamurai (t) 20:08, Feb 17, 2005 (UTC)
Checked my score of The Planets and you're both right, after a fashion. There's a brief stretch in Jupiter where the timpani play along with the main melody (not the "I vow to thee, my country" section, though, where the range of notes is too large and only some can be played). That's the part that requires two timpanists to accomplish. In Uranus, one timpanist frequently plays an E-flat B F G sequence that is strongly thematic, sometimes as a solo and sometimes alongside other melodies. I would avoid the word "echo", however, as it suggests an effect where the theme would be played first by other instruments and then repeated in the timpani; that's not particularly what's involved here. --Michael Snow 07:08, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
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- Jupiter: in the "I vow to thee" section the timpani play the bass line. They also play two distinct themes, the opening syncopated theme and the 3/4 tune, although in the latter one note is faked. I just played it a few weeks ago :-) And, in Uranus, while timp 1 plays the 4-note theme as noted, timp 2 plays two notes (C and G I think) as part of the bass line. A full performance probably needs 7 drums, if you think of the layout problems. David Brooks
Another fairly well-known thematic use of the timpani is the Turandot movement of Hindemith's Symphonic Metamorphoses. In the coda, the first 10 notes of the theme are repeated by the timps, with percussion accompaniment. Piston quotes it in Orchestration. It's easier to play this piece on 5 drums than 4, btw.
And, while I'm dispensing trivia, there's the thunder effect in Symphonie Fantastique, using 4 drums. My preference is for two percussionists to cozy up to the 2 timpanists so the rolls are close, not tremolo. David Brooks 19:28, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
[edit] First recorded orchestral use
In section 5.2 (Timpani in the orchestra) it is stated that
- The composer Jean-Baptiste Lully was the first to use timpani in the classical orchestra in his 1675 opera Thésée.
How sure can we be that this was the first use of timpani in an orchestra? I imagine timpanists very often improvised their parts by ear, or with guidance from a trumpet part. If Thésée was simply the first occurence of timpani in a score, I wouldn't assume it's the first occurence ever. Lully might just have been the first composer meticulous enough to produce a written part. An inventory of some kind would weigh more heavily, though. Perhaps it should be stated in the article that this was the first occurence in a score? --EldKatt 29 June 2005 17:30 (UTC)
[edit] Improvement drive
A related topic, Percussion instrument has been nominated to be improved on WP:IDRIVE. Come and support the nomination there or comment on it.--Fenice 06:52, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Zarathustra
Any thoughts on mentioning Richard Strauss's Also Sprach Zarathustra in this article? It may not be that notable from a timpanist's point of view, but to the general public no other orchestral segment showing off timpani has the recognizability of the Introduction to ASZ. (Thanks to 2001:A Space Odyssey, of course.) The Dallas Symphony Orchestra and the BBC's websites include sound samples from ASZ to illustrate timpani [1], [2]. Classical Music for Dummies refers to it too [3]. (By no means am I suggesting adding another sound-sample here on WP, just an honorable mention, perhaps.) ---Sluzzelin 11:52, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
