Talk:Timeline of Grand Theft Auto III canon

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Timeline of Grand Theft Auto III canon article.
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Contents

[edit] Photos and events

i think it's important that the timeline come complete with important photos...if those with ideas could list them and describe them, that would be good. Also, because photos take up a good amount of room, I think the timeline also needs to enclude some more events, even if they arnt as important. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ganfon (talk • contribs).

[edit] Palmero??

Is there any substantial evidence to prove that during the mid 80s, Salvatore took over the Leones?

I was the person who put that in the article. And yes i have evidence http://www.rockstargames.com/libertytree/apr2001/story1.html. Straight from the horse's mouth. This proves what i said as fact and not opinion. Ive added quite a few things to this article because i think its an excellant idea for an article and i can assure you that all i've added is fact. --Greene01

And I was the one who put it back after it's removal...research bud.-Ganfon

Oh thanks for that. I didn't even know it was removed. At least there's a couple of people on here who know Grand Theft Auto well. Most people just put in an opinion which doesn't even add up.--Greene01

Woah, I just needed the proof is all lol. Sorry if I offended you in some way...though a reference/footnote might've been helpful at first. Anyway, keep up the good work. NSRegentPark 01:26, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

No, its ok, im not offended. I'd just appreciate people to post their doubts on sections of the article in the discussions instead of just removing them.--Greene01

[edit] What's all this then?

I just saw that the article was being considered for deletion. I put a comment in the debate voting to Keep the article but i can't see why this article is being considered original research, What exactly isn't fact in this article?--Greene01

Why long articles about cusses and fictional cities if there is no chance for storyline articles to survive? As same as the Grand Theft Auto vehicle page! I enjoyed this article a lot and I hope more people are thinking like me. ProSieben 17:16, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Everybody should go into the deletion debate and vote to Keep this article. We need to keep it alive. Thanks.--Greene01

[edit] Suggestion

I was thinking that it might be a good idea to change the Name of this Article from Grand Theft Auto Series Storyline to Grand Theft Auto Series Timeline. I think it would be more self descriptive and this article is most definetly a timeline. Its just a suggestion but i think it should definetly be strongly considered. Thanks.--Greene01

It used to be the timeline...was changed.- Ganfon

No offense but i think that was a bad idea. In many ways this is not a storyline. Its a timeline. This is why you are being asked to rewrite because other storyline articles are paragraph by paragraph and this is listed year by year. I think it might help save the article if the title was a bit more exact.--Greene01

Tell me about it, I wasnt the one who changed it. I changed it back once but it was changed again and I didnt feel like an edit war.-Ganfon

[edit] KEEPING IT ALIVE

Go to the articles for deletion page (see top of article) and vote to KEEP the article. Its very helpful and should stay so please vote. Thank you,-Ganfon

  • STOP: AfD is not a vote if you are interested in keeping the article, look at the problems people are citing, and fix them first. Simply adding more keep votes to an article with problems will not help. AfD is about informed consensus, which is based off analysing the merit of an article against such things as WP:V, WP:NOR and WP:NPOV. LinaMishima 00:46, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Improvements needed - and a new name!

Firstly, there is one big failing with this article. It is clearly about GTA3 and onwards, not the original two GTA games. The current name for this is hence wrong, as it implies it covers a universal timeline. Either include what little timeline is in the original two games, or rename the article (move the article to the new name).

Secondly, I see no references cited. There is no idication of which historical piece came from which game, and at what point in the game. WP:VERIFY is not optional. Without references, this article is likely to fail the AfD. LinaMishima 00:46, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


Okay, sources for mission events added. and the title will be changed...however, the events of GTA, GTA II, and the GTA: London's will not be encluded. This article describes the events of the GTA3 trilogy, plus the added facts gathered on LCS, and VCS when it comes out. hense...the proped new name is Timeline Of The Grand theft Auto III Saga -Ganfon

Sounds good. I just think it should be slightly changed from Timeline Of The Grand theft Auto III Saga to Timeline Of The Grand theft Auto III Era. As Era is the official name. But it is definetly a good idea to change the Title.--Greene01

I have to voice my 2 cents. As far as discussions related to the series' storyline is concerned, "canon" is the best choice of word to describe the universe in which this storyline and its events are set in. "Era" and "series" are more suited when discussing the technical and gameplay aspects of the series, that is, when discussing the real-life aspects of the video game series. Hence my intention to rename the article as such.
I have to note that both the "era" and "series" wordings are not an official term for the games; in fact, I was the one who originally coined them. After a comment from a fellow editor, I agreed to him that the existing "era" term is not appropriate and even borders the use of neologisms. "Series" is more conservative but appropriate as an alternative, and has replaced the use of "era" in both the Grand Theft Auto series article and the navigation box. ╫ ２５ ◀RingADing▶ 14:53, 25 September 2006 (UTC) ╫

[edit] Something to salvage

An anon editor just included an elaborate storyline of the entire series in Grand Theft Auto (series). It has been reverted as it does little in explaining the gameplay of the series, which is far more crucial in the series' article than any storyline in the series. Rather than removing it outright, perhaps this entire section can be salvaged and merged into this article. The section is already written in prose, a good start.

The contents are provided in the nested section.

[edit] Analysis

Grand theft auto was a world of crime, corruption, betrayal, racketeering, narcotics, and revenge. People were doing favors for powerful local crime bosses, smalltime criminals earning respect through local gangs & crime syndicates. In the 1960s of London, there were gangsters working for strong mob-bosses against rivals. Problems were mainly around San Andreas, Liberty, and Florida in the United States. San Andreas was a state on the West Coast consisted of it main cities. Los Santos of the sprawling ghetto. San Fierro of the city for hope. Las Venturas as the gambling town. Liberty City was on the East Coast of the state Liberty and was the worst place in America and was currently under Mafia control at the time. Vice City of Florida full of gangsters, powerful drug barons, and corrupt politicians.

In 1986, the Forelli Mafia family, a Mafia family based in Liberty City, wanted to expand down South. They sent Tommy Vercetti, a member who was recently released from prison after 15 years, down to Vice City and to keep him out of Liberty. Vice City’s crime syndicates got rich off the cocaine trade so once Vercetti was set up nicely, the Forelli family would move in and take control. Once arrival, Vercetti was ambushed and lost everything, the money and the drugs during the transaction. Don Sonny Forelli wanted his money back but Tommy swore to find the money and the drugs, and then nail those people responsible. Most of Vice City wanted Tommy dead. Tommy helped mob lawyer Ken Rosenberg from facing consequences from the mob. He met Colonel Cortez who helped set up the drug deal. He met various underworld figures in the city. Tommy met Lance Vance, who was involved and lost his brother. They both met Ricardo Diaz, a local drug kingpin who liked their style and offered them some work. They soon discover Diaz was behind the busted deal and the murder of Lance’s brother. Lance attempted early and was captured by Diaz’s men before Tommy came to the rescue. The duo stormed into Diaz’s mansion and killed him out once and for all and claimed the mansion as their own. Now all that once belonged to Ricardo Diaz now belonged to Vercetti. He made the city know he was the new bad guy. With a little assistance from the Forellis, forming his own crime ring in progress, he built his own criminal empire. He earned respect from Cuban and biker gangs, and the Love Fist rock band. He owned the Malibu Club, produced porn films, robbed banks, had a protection racket, a counterfeiting operation, and a drug-trafficking business. The Forellis, after hearing Tommy going solo, came to cut into the profits (unsuccessfully) of Vercetti’s organization. They paid the last visit at his mansion. They also were going to fit Rosenberg with cement shoes. Tom planned to rip the mob off. However, Lance betrayed him. It had been known that Sonny Forelli set Vercetti up 15 years ago and left him to rot in prison. Tom fought hordes of goons and killed Lance Vance & Sonny Forelli. Ken remained on Tommy’s side. Vercetti believed there wouldn’t be any more heat from up North anymore. Vice City was under Tommy Vercetti’s control.

6 years passed to 1992, Carl Johnson returned from Liberty City – after 5 years when his younger brother was killed – to Los Santos after his mother was killed. Upon returning home, he was found by old friends from his gangbanging past, corrupt police officers Frank Tenpenny & Eddie Pulaski, both hard working members of LSPD’s anti-gang unit, CRASH (Community Resources Against Street Hoodlums). They framed him for the murder of Officer Ralph Pendelbury. The newest member Hernandez was forced to kill Pendelbury on order from the main men of CRASH. Tenpenny had a lot of control over CJ. They dumped him in Rollin Heights Ballas country. Ballas – consisted into 4 sets are, Rollin Heights, Front Yard, Kilo Trays, and Temple Drive– were main gang rivals of the gang Carl once represented 5 years ago, the Grove Street Families. The Families were falling apart and had split up into 3 distinct sets – Seville Boulevard and Temple Drive, but Grove Street remained the dominant set within the gang. Carl met with his older brother, Sweet, and gang homies, Big Smoke and Ryder. CJ helped Grove Street get grip on the neighborhood again. The Johnson family was falling apart when sister Kendl was dating a member of the rival Varrios Los Aztecas, Cesar Vialpando, soon to be friends with CJ. Smoke & Ryder collaborated with the Ballas and CRASH in the murder of Beverly Johnson, Carl’s mother. Sweet was arrested and CJ was left in the badland hills by CRASH, forced to do their dirty work whenever needed. Los Santos was dangerous now. Ballas controlled Grove Street (and a majority of Los Santos) along with the Vagos. CJ had to make sure his sister was safe first. Carl met Cesar’s (who’s gang was now falling apart) cousin, Catalina, who later went to Liberty City with another man. CJ met an aging hippie called The Truth and they went to San Fierro to his new auto repair shop he won at a race at the badlands. There were drug transactions between Big Smoke’s narcotics and San Fierro’s Loco Syndicate. CJ infiltrated the drug-ring and later took them down, including killing Ryder, and their drug factory, disbanding the group once and for all. That stopped the flow of drugs into Santos. CJ earned respect from local Triad gangs – consisted into 3 factions, Mountain Cloud Boys, Red Gecko Tong, and Blood Feather Triad – while in SF. He helped them open the Four Dragons Casino in Las Venturas, a Mafia-run town. Their rival casino was Caligula’s Casino and Ken Rosenberg – who was abandoned by Tommy Vercetti and disbarred from the law because of his drug abuse – was running it for the mob. The Sindacco, Leone, and Forelli families – although their main base of operations were in Liberty City – once united their organizations at Caligula’s and Rosie was stuck in the middle to keep their hostilities under control or he would’ve died. Carl got him out of death row, along with his pals, Kent Paul – an English man from Florida who managed Love Fist – & Maccer. CJ got in with Mafia Don Salvatore Leone before betraying him and robbing his casino with his cohorts. The Four Dragons became a success. CRASH decided to end their association and departure, permanently. Their meeting was set in the outskirts of Venturas. They killed Hernandez after he sold them out. CJ killed Pulaski after Tenpenny left to the precinct. He met famous gangsta rapper, Madd Dogg, who lost a rhyme book and manager back in LS, along with the success of his rival, OG Loc, ex-friend of Carl’s. CJ helped him get his career back on track and weakened Loc’s career. They decided to head back home to Los Santos. Mike Toreno, a government agent who part the Loco Syndicate, had CJ do a few jobs, using CIA connections to get his brother out of jail. Sweet was released. Carl tried to get Sweet in his successes but he wanted to go back to the ‘hood. They cleaned up the ‘hood and helped rebuild Grove Street Families’ dominance. Tenpenny and Pulaski’s trial was on television. The public now knew they killed Officer Pendelbury when he threatened to expose them. Pulaski was missing. The charges against Tenpenny were dropped. Since he wronged so many people in Los Santos, the whole city was in riots! Carl helped Cesar get his gang back together. The Johnson boys found Big Smoke’s drug factory (and home) after getting information from rival gangs. They killed Smoke, who became successfully wealthy. Tenpenny collected his cut of Smoke’s drug money and nearly attempted to take a flight from San Andreas. The brothers tracked Tenpenny down through the riot. He died in a traffic accident right in front of Carl’s neighborhood. City riots ended. CJ and the group decided to keep a low profile of what they had accomplished. San Andreas was Carl Johnson’s to explore!

5 years passed. Crime was all over in USA, especially in the city of San Andreas, Vice City, and Liberty City! El Burro, who was porn producer and member of the Diablos, a local street gang in Liberty City, was part of the crime scene. He was under police investigation at that time.

Mid ‘98, Toni Cipriani returned to Liberty City to continue life of organized crime with the Leone Mafia family, a Mafia organization he was with before his leave in exile – after he done a favor for the family. However, he had to start at the bottom within mob again. Cipriani’s mother was forever comparing him among Liberty’s residents since his return and decided to call a hit in her own son. Liberty was a Mafia playground and 3 mob families were fighting for Mafia dominance. The Leone family was engaged in a was with the Sindacco family. Luckily JD O’Toole, a weasel among the Sindacco ranks, helped the Leones weaken them. The Sindaccos moved operation to Forelli territory, where they faced conflict with the Forelli family. JD was killed at his “made” ceremony because of Salvatore Leone’s distrust. Toni was made a Mafia big-shot in Don Leone's organization, on which Ms. Cipriani was so thrilled and called of the hit. Mayor RC Hole, who was on the Forellis’ payroll and hassling the Leones, was assassinated. A businessman, Donald Love, stepped in for the mayoral election for the Leones, but lost it to Miles O’Donovan, when the public learned his links to organized crime. Love was clearly bankrupt but Cipriani helped rebuild his fortune. A Sicilian Mafia – who were believed to ease tensions between the Mafiosi – wanted a war between the 3 families and came to take over once the dust settled. The Leones kept quiet so the rival mob organizations destroyed themselves. Don Salvatore was arrested and sent to prison. He blamed both families and ordered hits on Paulie Sindacco and Franco Forelli, Dons of both organizations. The Sindaccos were finished in town and the Forellis’ main base of operation was obliterated. That ended Liberty City’s long-running Mafia feud. But then the Yakuza were going to take over the city. After all those years of mob control, they had finally flushed it all down the crapper! Cipriani foiled their plans, with the help of their Waka-gashira Kazuki Kasen's angry wife, Toshiko. Sal was released. The Sicilians tried to intimidate Mayor O’Donovan into convicting Leone on racketeering charges. The strategy was never fully executed due to the fact that Sal and Toni killed Massimo Torini, the Mafioso mastermind from Sicily behind all their troubles. Since the Leones saved the mayor, they owned. The Leone family ran Liberty City. The Sicilians acknowledged defeat to the Leones, as both of the organizations agreed for peace. Sal still didn't trust his old uncle, as he replied, "Every dog has his day."

2 years passed. Liberty City became a turmoil and war zone. 2 partners in crime, Vinnie & Mike, were finishing up their last jobs for the Mafia so they could prepare for their leave of the city. Vinnie was allegedly killed in a car bomb. Mike left the came, but came back to avenge his partner’s death. Mike tried to see Jonnie, a bartender in Liberty City’s Red Light District, for information of Vinnie’s killer. He died soon. Mike teamed up with 8-Ball, a bomb specialists who later damaged his hands and got arrested. Mike met several people, and a few crime bosses. He became friends with Cisco, the leader of the Colombian Cartel. He also died and the Cartel blamed Mike for his death and they then were after him. He had drawn negative attention from gangs in the city, and now the Mafia wanted him dead. Mike met Asuka, co-leader – along with her brother Kenji – of the Yakuza family and young siblings of the late leader Kazuki Kasen. Vinnie, still alive, was found by Mike during a car chase. He had betrayed Mike. He planned to escape Liberty with Mike’s share of the money. Mike had changed since his supposed death. He killed Vinnie permanently. Then Mike fought with local Yardie gangs, the Cartel and the Mafia. The Yakuza didn’t take part of it. He kept killing the Yardie boys and until their hurt leader King Courtney, Vinnie’s real boss, until he acknowledged defeat. Having defeated his enemies, the police was closing in. Mike took Cisco’s plane and fled far away from the city to where ever, because he was then free. Mike had thought of all the people he was associated with.

Things had changed between 1998 and 2001 in Liberty City. The Callahan Bridge construction was completed. Ferry services ran out of business for a road-tunnel project. The Leones had declined in power, although they still remained one of the power crime syndicates in town. The Forellis’ influence was weakened even further by the Leones. The Yakuza gained foothold of Liberty City ever since the ending of the Mafia war in ‘98. Other gangs moved into former Mafia-controlled territories (thanks to Massimo Torini). The Colombian Cartel produced an illegal drug called Spank, which was was popular in Liberty City, which strengthened them. It caused several problems for the city’s criminal organizations and the local police department. Catalina betrayed her lover Claude, a silent man whom she commited several robberies 9 years ago, for money from a robbery and left him for dead. He survived but got arrested. Claude was going to serve 10 years in Liberty Penitentiary after the trial. He escaped with 8-Ball after armed Colombian men surrendered the po-po. Claude wanted revenge. The convicts were stranded after the Callahan Bridge was destroyed. He and 8-Ball got their career straight, working for Salvatore Leone’s family, with Claude as their main agent. However, they decided to betray Claude. They were offering his death as a deal with the Colombian Cartel. He was saved by the Don’s dumb wife Maria, who had a thing with heads of biggest criminal organizations and was to blame, and met her friend, Asuka Kasen, remaining co-leader along with Kenji of the now powerful Yakuza. They escaped to Staunton Island. Road links were repaired. Claude broke his Mafia ties, killing Leone, in order to strengthen ties with the Yakuza. The Cartel and Uptown Yardies had an alliance which infuriated the Yakuza. There were links between Yakuza and police so the cops likely left them alone. Claude met Ray Machowski, a bent cop on their payroll and media millionaire Donald Love. He wanted a war between the Yakuza and Cartel, which was to kill Waka-gashira Kenji Kasen with a Colombian-gang car. Claude confronted Catalina & her new partner, Miguel, at the Fort Staunton construction site (formerly Forelli territory that was destroyed 3 years prior) while on an errand for DL. She betrayed Miguel, who failed to escape, and escaped. The Yakuza blamed the Cartel for Kenji’s death and were going to hunt down and kill the Colombian dogs. Claude helped stop the Cartel’s Spank manufacturing and distributing business in the city. They murdered Asuka and Miguel, and kidnapped Maria. Claude had to give Catalina $500,000 at the Cartel’s mansion in for the hostage. In the final confrontation, it was revealed that she was just using him. She double-crossed him again. Strapped from all his weapons, Claude managed to re-strap his self and fight through hordes of Colombian gangsters and killed Catalina. He & Maria fled from the scene. Though Claude likely killed the slut, who wouldn’t stop whining about her nails, after all the shit she had caused him. His reputation boosted higher.

12 years later in 2013, a man named Claude Speed wan in an unknown town, performing various jobs for criminal organizations there. Claude was killed by an assassin from the Zaibatsu Corporation, whose van and merchandise were previously stolen by Claude, as he attempted to break into a sports car. Grand theft auto violence never ceased to stop.

  • Sorry but that is really badly written. Some bits don't make sense, some aren't spelled right and its generally just terribly written.--Greene01

[edit] ENLIGHTEN ME!!!

12 years later in 2013, a man named Claude Speed wan in an unknown town, performing various jobs for criminal organizations there. Claude was killed by an assassin from the Zaibatsu Corporation, whose van and merchandise were previously stolen by Claude, as he attempted to break into a sports car. Grand theft auto violence never ceased to stop.

Is that a joke or is that one of those evil bits of Rockstar humor that they have hidden throughout the series' instalments and the web of their official websites?

[edit] Storyline, and recent overhaul

With the amounts of edits that have been placed recently, and the fact that it is...and always was a timeline of events, I'm not so sure if including the storyline would be right. However, it could be added at the bottom of the page under a heading of "Written Storyline" or something like that, but I'm not so sure if it would even get read. Perhaps it could get it's own article, but with this one already out there...it seems a little redundant. If it's going to to stay, I'd say add it to the bottom of the page.

Also, i think the time is now for this to be removed from the deletion page. All of said 'problems' have been fixed and attended to so the article has absolutly no reason to be deleted now. There shouldnt be a problem now...unless your not...informed.-Ganfon

The way AfD works is that all AfDs run their course until consensus is reached, and are normally required to run for a minimum of five days. A witten storyline would probably be a bad idea, potentially introducing NPOV issues. There are still some issues with the referencing of entries, as not every date appears to have it's events referenced. Perhaps a different means to summarise that events from this date range come from this game, this range from that game, etc (at the top of the article?). LinaMishima 22:05, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Is that what you had in mind?-Ganfon

[edit] The Author

Fuck you then people! I'm the author of the storyline. You can do what you want, but I got others. A lot of others. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.214.25.118 (talk • contribs) 20:39, September 1, 2006 (UTC)

I'm afraid you are the original author, not the owner of anything here on wikipedia (except, perhaps, your userspace, granted on the principle it will be used fairly). LinaMishima 22:03, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Fuck you who ever you are! I'm not saying I own Wikipedia, I own the storyline, dumbass. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.214.25.118 (talk • contribs) 07:47, September 2, 2006 (UTC)

Right there on the edit page it states "You agree to license your contributions under the GFDL". The nature of the GDFL means if you post something on wikipedia, the wikipedia copy becomes effectively 'owned' the community. Unless, that is, you are from rocksatr games and claim original copyright. But given you are freely ignoring the rule against personal attacks, I doubt it. LinaMishima 12:22, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually, assuming you can read, you don't own ANYTHING on Wikipedia...even your precious, typo-riddled, run on sentenced, horribly transitioned, and all around bad storyline. We've been trying to tell you that there's a chance it'll be put on the site...not anymore. Learn some manners pal.-ganfon

Let me get this straight this guy owns the rights to the Grand Theft Auto storyline, lol. This page's creation was inevitable. So you don't own anything.--Greene01

Actually, that guy just made that written storyline above, I started the page.-Ganfon


  • That would explain why the page he wrote is so badly written. It is really just painful to read.--Greene01

OK! You win all right? I was just trying to fit in and help out! You win OK? You satisfied?

  • Telling people to Fuck off isn't exactly helping out.--Greene01

NO! I mean editing the story. It may no be as good as a story, but what the hell.

[edit] Title Changed

Not sure why the title was changed. The title reflects what the article is. Sionce some of you are having trouble comprehending what the article is, a new title was disscussed, and the current title is what was determined. The article is not a storyline. A storyline is a written plot analysis. this is a timeline sorting out the events in the order which they occur. The title was agreed upon before it was changed, it should not be changed again, period. if you have a problem with the title, discuss it first, dont just move it.Ganfon 18:00, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

  • No offence but you wrote Timeline of The Grand Theft Auto II Era instead of Timeline of The Grand Theft Auto III Era
    • I think that's because you can't move ontop of redirects. Ganfon should have requested an admin's assistance rather than making the name more incorrect. I prefer "cannon timeline" myself, as it is more accurate, and clearly will not include fanfiction or unauthorised works. LinaMishima 18:29, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

What on earth are you talking about?! I got the Grand Theft Auto III Era! I was trying to connect the entire series!

  • Right, my fault I appologize for that, but none the less title should stay. I think it sounds better than cannon, but thats just me. I think it's right now, but if not...feel free to fix it instead of saying what I should have done. Just because I made a mistake, doesnt mean you can't fix it. Ganfon 19:09, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

OK! I removed the storyline title and changed it into analysis. You sastified?

  • Argh, no! Don't say it's analysis, that will sound like you are trying to do original research - which you're not, but it will only encourage the article's deletion as such. LinaMishima 21:35, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
  • I thought we came to the agreement that it couldnt go in? Apart from that, does anyone else have any problems with the actual article??Ganfon 00:50, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Screw it people! Just take it off there. I don't care anymore.

[edit] Grand Theft Auto Plot

Just as an FYI, another article designated for the series' storyline was created three days prior to this article's creation, and is also not the result of an article split. I'm not about to side either this article or the "Grand Theft Auto Plot" article, but the Storyline-Timeline articles issue should be resolved soon enough, because it's creating confusion to both the readers and editors.

Cheers. ╫ ２５ ◀RingADing▶ 17:04, 15 September 2006 (UTC) ╫

Article has been deleted. ╫ ２５ ◀RingADing▶ 14:27, 25 September 2006 (UTC) ╫

[edit] On the timeline

On the timeline, it said that Paulie Sindacco was Johnny Sindacco's father. Was he really Johnny's father? Paulie looked like he was in his late 30's move to 40.

  • Yes, age may be a concern, but because Johnny Sindacco was supposed to be the son of a don who was never named, it can be assumed that Paulie was in fact his father and was the Sindacco Boss in 1992.

[edit] New additions

If these new additions are not vandalism, they need to be sourced. Otherwise I'm going to site the vandalism and rv the article back to the way it was.Ganfon 19:32, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

  • Half of the birth headings are untrue, Nobody knows Tommy's exact age although its possible he could have been 35, its not fact, Remove it. Also i don't remember hearing Avery's age. I also think that the

headings more than 50 years old should be removed. Is the date of Liberty Citys establishment really necessary.

[edit] A PURPLE HEART????

For killing a village? I thought that was awarded for wounds and deaths.

  • Indeed, that does dound extremely wrong.Ganfon 02:07, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
  • That

may be true, but then it's a mistake Rockstar made.

On http://www.rockstargames.com/vicecity/ go to the bulletin board and navigate to the "Big" Mitch Baker photo. Click on the photo and a police report will pop up stating that he was awarded a Purple Heart for killing a village full of Vietcong.

  • He also says he did it in the game itself--Greene01

[edit] The Deletion of Unnecessary Infortmation

There are a lot of thin gs on the time line now that don't really effect the main story line. I hearby propose that the majority of 'pre-GTA:VC' information goes. Perhaps taking a vote wouldnt be a bad idea.Ganfon 20:14, 23 October 2006 (UTC)


You shouldn’t just delete all of the information before Vice City just because some of it is irrelevant.

  • Tommy Vercetti earning his nickname of “The Hardwood Butcher” by thwarting an ambush on him seems pretty significant, since it is the reason for the hostility between him and Sonny, who was a major threat through all of GTA:VC
  • “Big” Mitch Baker killing a village of Vietcong, seems appropriate background information to include.
  • Also the birth dates seem important to me as well. These are major characters who have impacted the GTA world quite significantly. Should we give some way for the reader to determine their age at various points within the game series.
  • Sal Leone taking control over a major criminal organization also seems important to me.
  • Because the Ballas were such an infamous gang and because were the primary antagonists in the GTA: San Andreas, it seems all right to mention when they were established.
  • Liberty City being established seems very important to me since it is the most referenced place in the entire series.
  • The Blackfield Badtrip and the 66th Cavalry information are pointless bits of Rockstar humor. I don’t care if they are left in or not.
  • You could argue that the Francis International Airport being established did impact Liberty city quite a bit, but you could argue that it doesn’t affect the characters very much. It’s still an interesting fun fact that I believe could stay.

Can you clarify whether this is a timeline of GTA III canon as an alternate reality or simply as walkthrough of events that have taken place within each individual game. Because if the pre-GTA: VC character information is not included in this page than, by the same principle, the character information provided between each individual game, would be not be included either. This would make for a very poor site.

69.29.65.77 -October 23, 2006

    • I'm not saying to delete all of it. But some has to go in my opinion. I mean, the site doesnt need to include when Liberty City was founded.Ganfon 01:09, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
  • I can see your point. It's not really important to any of the featured characters or any of the individule games' storylines, but it is really important to GTA, as a world. I understand why it would be taken out, but I would personally like to see it stay. But I wouldn't miss the Blackfield Badtrip and the 66th Cavalry information at all. Thease arn't even important to the GTA world.

-69.29.65.77 October 24, 2006

  • I also think the Birth dates should be removed, not only are they unimportant but some of them are inaccurate or made up.--Greene01

How do you know they are inaccurate/made up? I listed the sources that prove the current birth dates are correct. What sources do you have that prove they are incorrect?Now I know some of them do not make sense. Like the fact that Lance Vance is born before Victor, despite Victor being referred to as the older brother. But these are mistakes Rockstar made, not me. And you believe the birth dates are unimportant? You honestly believe that the birth of Tommy fucking Vercetti is unimportant to a timeline of Grand Theft Auto? Correct me if I’m wrong, Greene01, but aren’t you the same guy who wrote this:

I think that Tommy Vercetti more than deserves an article, Ive seen much shorter article's and i believe that Tommy is one of the most popular GTA character's ever if not the Most popular.

And I think his birth date more than deserves a place on this page. And if his is allowed on the page, than why wouldn't Victor’s be as well. He is a main character too. And what about Lance. He may not hold as much importance in an individule game as his brother will probably end up having, but in the overall series, he probably does, considering his srong supporting roles in both Vice City games. The importance of Avery Carrington's and Ken Rosenberg's birth dates, however, are debatable. I would personally like to see them stay, but I don't have any real reasons to validate this request (other than the fact that they are major characters in the series).

-69.29.65.77 October 25, 2006

  • 69.29.65.77 You need to settle down. Yes, you sourced the information you added. Yes, they are not you're mistakes...but they are mistakes. This is an article in an encyclopedia, it is not your article by any means. We understand how you feel about the additions you made, if you didn't think they belonged...you wouldn't have added them. However, this article was created as a timeline of all the differnet connections and events in the series from Vice City to GTA III. The "mistakes" that have commonly been referred to will be removed. For example, not only is it not important to the series...but you cannot be awarded a Purple Heart for murder (yes, we know it's not your mistake, calm down.). These additions need to go. This discussion has gotten out of hand...so let's put it to a vote.Ganfon 02:54, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

I approve of deleting all the information prior to 1971, Liberty City. it is not neccessary to the original purpous of the timeline. Sorry, 69.29.65.77Ganfon 02:54, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

All right, I will settle down. But for the record, I never declared it was my article. I was defensive simply because I believed this was a timeline of the important events that have taken place in the Grand Theft Auto’s alternate reality, in which case the information I justified previously would have definitely stayed (except for the mistakes, of coarse). However, now that you have finally answered my question, and have clarified the fact that this article was created as a timeline of all the different connections and events in the series from Vice City to GTA III, I now understand why the information is considered to be unimportant. Although, I would have appreciated this being made clear earlier, so we could have avoided this lengthy “discussion.” Oh, and I may have come off as a bit overly defensive because Greene01 accused me of making up some the information. I’m sorry, but I don’t like being called a liar. Especially by a guy, who attacked another editor just for requesting justification on an event that was never mentioned in the actual games, even after the other editor apologized. But anyway Ganfon, I now understand what the your original intentions were for creating this site, so I won’t attempt to thwart the removal of the information I submitted any longer. This entire discussion was just a misunderstanding. Except for Rockstar’s mistakes. You are right; they wouldn’t belong in either interpretation of the site.

-69.29.65.77 October 26, 2006

  • Ok, i don't know what you're problem with me is and i don't care. Im sorry if you thought i was attacking you but i wasn't. While you provided a source for the info, it is an extremely unreliable source as it is a Vice City walkthrough created by a fan. The info could be made up. I was saying the guy who wrote the walkthrough was wrong not you. As the source is unreliable i think some of the birth dates should be removed. Some have been proven correct and some are unproven. Don't get defensive, im just making a point. Oh and about the attack on another member, I don't recall this 'attack' and if i did, i more than likely apoligised. What was this 'attack' about--Greene01

I was referring to the incident with NSRegentPark in the Palermo section. I apologize; I thought the walk through was a credible source because information it provided has been on the Tommy Vercetti page for a while now and seemed to be accepted by everyone on the site. I didn’t have a problem with you until I thought you claimed that the birth dates of major characters in the series were not important to the GTA World. But now I can see that you just thought they weren’t important for continuity within the series. I apologize for interpreting the point of this page incorrectly. Then I thought you were accusing me of making up information, but now you say that you were not trying to do this, so I am sorry for making this assumption too quickly. Thank you both for correcting me on these mistakes. All I wanted were valid reasons why the information I submitted wouldn’t be included on the page, and you guys did exactly that. Good work.

-69.29.65.77 October 26, 2006

  • I wasn't attacking NSRegentPark in the Palermo topic although i'll admit the way i answered his question was a little intimidating but i wasn't attacking him. Anyway we obviously had a misunderstanding, it doesn't really matter now as the page is back to normal. Sorry if you thought i was attacking your additions, i was just making a point.Thanks. --Greene01

[edit] Alright

  • I have deleted the additions made. I didn't mean to say that you actually said it was you're article, you just appeared to be acting this way. no article on Wikipedia belongs to anyone. I'm glad to see this misunderstanding has finally been resolved.Ganfon 20:26, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Good job, it looks alot neater and more precise. --Greene01

[edit] The Return of Unnecessary Information

Why, may I ask, has the same Unnecessary information returned to the page? The birthdates of minor, and even main characters are not important to the timeline of significant events, as previously agreed upon on this page!!! I have re-deleted these additions, and don't expect them to return. they are simply not significant enough to be listed in the article.Ganfon 03:33, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree. If all possible, I'll help remove such additions as well. It's a timeline and nothing else. BishopTutu 19:39, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
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