User talk:Tigeroo

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Contents 1 License tagging for Image:300px-Ghaznevid.JPG 2 Muslim community 3 Categories 4 Campaignbox templates 5 Welcome to the Military history WikiProject! 6 maps 7 Historiography of early Islam 8 History of Hinduism 9 Re: Transclusion 10 Re Aisha 11 Muslim conquests / Umayyad 12 Domestic behaviour in Islam 13 Crusade sources 14 Hagarism 15 Buddhism 16 Blocking 17 hey 18 Three reverts? 19 Unblock Request 20 quran and ramadan. 21 Decent edits 22 Muhammad introduction 23 Ibn Hazm 24 Question 25 Filipino muslim community 26 The Way To Say Something 27 Crusades 28 Talk

[edit] License tagging for Image:300px-Ghaznevid.JPG

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Welcome!

Hello, Tigeroo, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

• The five pillars of Wikipedia
• How to edit a page
• Help pages
• Tutorial
• How to write a great article
• Manual of Style

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome!  BhaiSaab ^talk 17:55, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Muslim community

Hi, I've started a discussion about your addition of Yoruba to Category:Muslim communities on Talk:Yoruba (at the bottom). Briefly, it boils down to the problem that the category system simply isn't fit to adress issues of cultural identity. — mark ✎ 07:31, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Categories

Hello, Tigeroo, I have seen that you are editing the categories about Spanish history. I have written some collaborations about Al-Áldalus and its influence in Spanish history. It is undeniable, but it is also mistaking to put under the category Al-Ándalus articles about different non-Islamic historical moments and places, like Castile, Cortes Generales, and the different medieval Christian kingdoms. I don´t know why you have deleted several categories like Middle Ages, that are informative of the historial moment. I would ask you to stop for a moment and explain it. Your edits should also be accompained of a summary, explaining the reasons of the changes. Thank you very much for your understanding. Yours sincerely, --Garcilaso 13:00, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Hello again, it is a pleasure talking to you. Your interest in tagging the topics related to Islam is necessay, from my point of view. I have also categorised some articles before for the same reason. But categories are, as far as I know, almost a definition of the article, and tagging Castile (for example) as Al-Ándalus would be mistaking. I have talked to an administrator who knows more about categories than both of us, and he will help us to fix what is necessary. Only let me do a parallel example: if somebody categorises the countries and subjects of Latin America as Category:Spain, of if somebody writes Category: Roman Empire to most of the cities of Europe, it would be an error. Threre must be written in the articles, for example, Kingdom of León, a mention of what was happening in the rest of the peninsle, or even, if you want, in "See also". Others, like Cortes Generales don´t have any justification to the allusion. Other article, Inquisición Española, develloped its "activities" in Spanish territory, and most of the time, when Al-Andalus didn´t exist anymore. About Mudéjar, I thought before about the link to islamic culture and that is why I left the tag "Al-Andalus" to the article, although it is inexact. I think that a possible sollution is to create a new category, something like "Arab influence in the Iberian Peninsle", or "Arab influence in Spanish culture", and that is where articles like Mudéjar and some others, like Arabic influence on the Spanish language could be located, as they are not referred neither to Al-Ándalus nor to Islam directly.

Other point is the reference to actual Spain as Al-Andalus. Spain, in arab is saidإسبانيا (Isbania), and there is an autonomous community in it called Andalucía, that is a named derivated from Al-Ándalus, but it isn´t even the territory of Al-Ándalus ( that took at the begining much more lands, and, with the reconquista, decreased gradually until 1492 when dissapeared). The reference to Al-Andalus in Andalucía is purely ethymological. Most of the cities and territories of Spain have names derivated from Latin or Arabic, and we don´t call León Legio Septima Gemina or Gibraltar Jebel-Tariq. So you probably have heard the name Al-Ándalus referred to actual Spain, but it is used by a small number of fanatics: I have some Moroccan and Egiptian friends and the only time I heard that aception was in TV, vindicated by Al-Qaeda, and it is as "justified" as vindicating Europe for the Roman Empire, or most of Asia for Gengis Khan heirs. I will be delighted to work with you whenever you want. I am very interested in this topic (I am learning Arabic for pure delight, and form part of the Wikiprojects Middle Ages, Architecture and Spain). Cheers!--Garcilaso 10:41, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Hello, Tigeroo, I am glad to see that we both agree in the main subjects. I thought that Reconquista was fine for the kingdoms as it it include in Category: al-Andalus. Due to my bad English I don´t understand exactly what is your proposal about Spanish Inquisition. Correct me if I am wrong: you say that we should include the topics about that time after 1492 and before the Moriscos expulsion in the category Spanish Inquisition. If it is the point, I think that it would be a poor vision of that times. Although it is not well known, the relationship between the moorish and the christian population after -and before- 1492, was not always of war and enmity. Before, we have splendid collaboration moments under the Caliphate of Cordoba, under the Alfonso X the Wise in Toledo, or even later, the relationship between Pedro I and the Nasrid kings of Granada, that brought as well the Alhambra and the Alcázar of Sevile, at both sides of the fronteer. But after 1492, and up to 1609 or even up to today, Spanish Inquisition was not the only link between Moorish and Christians, and Mudéjar architecture testifies it, as well as some of Spanish cooking, and Arabic influence is present in our language. That is the point for the creation of that category: there could be referred bad things (the expulsion, the Revolt of Alpujarras, the Inquisition...) but also good things. That is more encyclopedic, as it shows two faces of the same reality. I would work hard in creating articles about the subject (for example, a proper article about neo-mudéjar, or working harder in the article Arabic influence on the Spanish language) if the category was created.

About Mudéjar, as it is now, it has the categories "Muslim communities", because Mudéjares, as a group, were muslim, and it also has "Category: Al Ándalus", although it is inexact, precisely because of the very strong influence of Moorish architecture, and I think it is fine like this (until the new category is created). But it is not Islamic architecture. Of course, I know that Islamic architecture is not only mosques, and Alhambra, or the palaces of Ispahán testify it, but Mudéjar architecture has a very precise religious adscription: Civil works were houses and palaces for christian owners, and some of them had a chapel in it. (I have been inside of a couple of this domestic chapels, and they are absolutely charming for their tiny scale and fine work). Relligious constructions were always churches, cathedrals or monasteries, except for the few sinagogues remaining, pure jewels of architecture (I know three: Santa María la Blanca and El Tránsito, in Toledo, and the Sinagogue of Córdoba, which has the geometric and palm decoration, and the inscriptions are in Hebrew). So Mudéjar architecture is a eminently relligious style, but not of Islam, but of Christianity (and Jewish religion in a minor extenct). That is exactly the definition of the style: the architecture made in the Christian Kingdoms, for non-muslim purposes and owners, made mainly (but not only) by moorish architects and workers. It has both techniques and aesthetics of Moorish and Christian architecture, and we often speak about Romanesque-Mudéjar, Gothic-Mudéjar or Renaissance-Mudéjar. I think that as it is now, with the links to Al-Andalus and to the Muslim communities in the categories, it is well defined, from my point of view.

Well, that is what I think and what I have read and seen, but I will be delighted to share more informations and to widen my point of view with your data and opinions on the subject. I think that that new category is necessary to include all the influence of Moorish culture in Spain. Yours sincerely, Garcilaso 12:46, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Campaignbox templates

Hey! Just to let you know, standard convention is to avoid giving dates in campaignbox templates, and never to add categories directly to them. There is more information about them here that you might find helpful as well. Thanks! Kirill Lokshin 03:09, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Welcome to the Military history WikiProject!

[edit] maps

I took a pd map of Eurasia off of Wikipedia, removed the boundaries, colored the sea black and the land white for clarity, and then just fill in borders as appropriate.

Give this blank map a try:

Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 13:34, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Historiography of early Islam

Tigeroo, you not only ironed out my language, you removed some of the sense of my sentences. I think it's relevant to a discussion of Wansborough to note that he has a dense hermetic style. I have the impression that you feel that "big words" aren't appropriate for an encyclopedia article. Care to discuss? Zora 07:33, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

I suppose the problem is that language that seems perfectly ordinary to me seems ornate or dated to others. I read a great many Victorian novels and I also proof them, for Distributed Proofreaders (we make free e-books). Thanks for being nice about it. I will restore the bit re his style. That's MY impression (I have one of his books and I just can't read it) and I'm sure I've read it elsewhere ... I just need to come up with a cite. Zora 07:43, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] History of Hinduism

Hi, the mention of the Islamic attacks on Hinduism and the subsequent defeat of the Islamic rulers in the 18th and 19th centuries are essential for this article. And ok, "quest" may not have been the word I was looking for.--^Babub→Talk 10:10, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

You say: "Please also try not to rely too much on Ram Sita Goel, expand your horizons for reference material." There is no wikipedia policy on excluding Sitram Goel as a capable historian of Hindu history. Except for ad hominem attacks on him, his historical accounts have never been challenged in public.

You say: "As you can see the editors were not even sure if the Marathas should have gotten a mention at all as they did lower down in the article." Just bcos the editors weren't sure, it doesn't mean that this issue is irrelevant.--^Babub→Talk 08:24, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi! Thanks for the clarifications. Cheers to you too. --^Babub→Talk 09:51, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Transclusion

Campaigns of Muhammad
Badr – Banu Qaynuqa – Uhud – Banu Nadir – The Trench – Banu Qurayza – Hudaybiyyah – Khaybar – Mu'tah – Mecca – Hunayn – Autas – Ta'if – Tabouk

It just means the content of the box are included in the page (as shown at right) rather than the box merely being linked to (like this). Kirill Lokshin 12:24, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re Aisha

Hi Tigeroo. My edit was a removal of something saying that (All the historical references to the Aisha's age at marriage reinforce Aisha's pre-menarcheal status, and, implicitly her virginity). [1]. If you go to the references section you'd find that there's only one reference and not many as the note i removed claimed. So for me, at this stage, only D. A. Spellberg claims that and not all. We don't know who are the all. -- Szvest 16:13, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Muslim conquests / Umayyad

I lifted the content I inserted into Muslim conquests — which you found objectionable — from Umayyad and from Muslim conquest in the Indian subcontinent, so you may want to check those for similar objections. Calbaer 14:09, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Domestic behaviour in Islam

Salaam, I edited Domestic behaviour in Islam. I think this article still needs some attention. If you can improve it alittle bit, that'll be great. Secondly, I don't know, what is the problem with the references, why they are appearing twice. TruthSpreader^Talk 11:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Salaam, can you please give use your feedback changing Women in Muslim societies article to Women in Islam, in which later is based purly on jurist opinions. If you can help, that'll be great. TruthSpreader^Talk 05:49, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Crusade sources

The Catholic Encyclopedia is a bad source because it cannot possibly be neutral about the crusades. I find it odd that you do not realize this. Also, if you are using the online version, that is almost 100 years old and ridiculously out of date. As for Karen Armstrong, she writes popular junk, not the kind of quality that I think we are all looking for. It is difficult enough to define a crusade, we should not grab any old definition out of some book written by a non-specialist. Adam Bishop 06:27, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Thats OK that it cannot be neutral, it can still be referred to for definitions and concepts. It's a matter of what it is referred to for. The Crusades were fought for the Church, for various reasons, they were known as Holy Wars to the Crusaders who coined the name themselves, I think these sort of things can be cited from those sources and its better than no sources. If there are specific problems most the referenced information is common knowledge and can be easily referenced from better sources as well and we can take these up, please note what it has been referenced for, and frankly it was the easiest source for me grab to include common historical facts, so that they were not simply edited out.--Tigeroo 06:36, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

They didn't invent the term "holy war"! Where are you getting that from? Adam Bishop 15:10, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hagarism

As you have been involved in editing this article, I think it's important for you to comment on recent developments on the talk page of the article. Thank you. BhaiSaab ^talk 16:53, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Buddhism

Please have a look at the talkpageGreetings, Sacca 14:35, 14 September 2006 (UTC) Bold text

[edit] Blocking

Looks like your IP is shared with that guy ythat got blocked. I've unblocked it. You should be OK now, if not e-mail me with your IP. --Doc 13:47, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] hey

what do you think about User:Lionee.. judging from his contribs he seems like a sock and a parody of your SN to me. ITAQALLAH 11:03, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Didn't think of it like that but he seems to have been created solely for reverts.--Tigeroo 11:05, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

question is by whom? can't go for WP:RFCU unless we have an idea of who, right? ITAQALLAH 11:10, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Try from their position and edit history or just call him out as a vandal. I have no clue how this works really beyond 3RR.--Tigeroo 11:20, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Three reverts?

Tigeroo I think you might be over three reverts but itd be a real drag to report you. You might consider self-reverting?Opiner 08:17, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads-up, just checked no I haven't commited 3RR, "yet". Any rate check the quote on the talk page for the NPOV issue.--Tigeroo 08:34, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Tigeroo you have certainly violated the three revert rule. I have counted and have the diffs. Please self revert.Opiner 08:42, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unblock Request

We can't unblock you at this time, because you haven't given us the information we need to even look into your block. You yourself were not blocked; if you were prevented from editing, you must have been autoblocked or blocked because of your IP address. I'm removing your unblock request because there's nothing we can do without this information. If you still want to be unblocked, feel free to add the {{unblock}} tag back to this page, and be sure to include the message you saw when you tried to edit, including the IP address. This is what the message looks like. Without that information, we can't help you. --  Netsnipe  ►  14:05, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

All the autoblocks from that block have expired, and I have undone the original block (as it seems to not be necessary, and was causing collateral damage). You should be able to edit now. Mangojuice^talk 14:38, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Your request to be unblocked has been granted for the following reasons: Autoblock of 213.42.21.81 Request handled by:  Netsnipe  ►  17:14, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] quran and ramadan.

Does it mean that for the first 22 years, only a part of quran was recited (as it continued to grow till he died.) Thanks.--nids(♂) 07:59, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Good question I am not sure at what point it started, but it used to be a month in which the revelations todate were reviewed. --Tigeroo 11:24, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Decent edits

Thanks for clarifying the bin Qasim thing in Persecution of Hindus. It's fairly NPOV and mentions both views.Hkelkar 11:08, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Muhammad introduction

Tigeroo, if you are to pass judgement on other editors' prose ("horrible"), consider that your second, third and fourth sentences are passives ("He is regarded as a prophet…", "Muhammad is believed by Muslims…", "His mission is regarded…") - a textbook example of poor style. Take a writing course; this is one of the very first things you will be taught to avoid. If you cannot maintain the subject of the article as subject of the predicate, consider that your narrative may be off-topic - to wit, it's about Muslim belief rather than about Muhammad himself. There is already an article about Muslim belief..Proabivouac 00:57, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

I know your interest in Muhammad article. That is why I thought that you might also be interested in the on going mediation about Muhammad pictures in the article. I think you are gifted with conveying things very clearly and impressively. That is why may be you could help there by joining it .. --- ابراهيم 16:24, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ibn Hazm

Hi, I reverted your edit. You make a good point that elongated isn't proper.... I changed it to "full". However, the reason the full name was pushed to later was because having a huge Arabic name in bold is not useful and does not make for a better article. He is not called by his full name so pushing it back a little makes the article look nicer and emphasizes that he is called ibn Hazm, not Abū Muḥammad ʿAlī ibn Aḥmad ibn Saʿīd ibn Ḥazm. Is that alright? I see the point you were making but I (and Striver) think that it's problematic putting the full name right at the intro. Striver made a new section called "name" which I thought was overkill but I think adding to the end of the intro works well. Comments? Questions? Revert war? :) --gren グレン 04:43, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I'd buy your way if you don't bold the full name. I think doing that just makes it distracting. So, if you want to rever to that I won't contest it. Also Template:Stamp says that the stamp can only be used if it's for illustrating the stamp... which in that usage it wouldn't be. I didn't mean to remove it (I originally uploaded it) I just didn't pay attention in my revert. However, I won't re-add it because of the copyright issues... but, I wouldn't really remove it if you add it. Although, we should find a better image but my few searches haven't found any. gren グレン 05:05, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Question

Hi, left a couple clarification questions at Talk:First_Crusade#Background_Issues, thanks. -- Stbalbach 16:13, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Your request to be unblocked has been granted for the following reason(s): Autoblock of 213.42.21.81 lifted/expired. Request handled by:  Netsnipe  ►  11:56, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Filipino muslim community

Are you Filipino or muslim? The Filipino muslim situation is complex and needs to be well analyzed and not put into one fix-all category. Before fixing that category, please reason out at the discussion page like I did, wikipedia is well known for maintaining a harmony despite edit wars. Putting the filipino moro culture and ethnicity into the Islam religion category is like putting American culture and ethnicity into a christian religion category (or English religion category if there is an English religion). Please work with me on this one. At least debate down there at the Islam category where your arguments will have longterm and effective results.--Jondel 03:23, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Way To Say Something

What do you mean when you say info added ?

Looking forward to your opinion,

with respect,

(Lunarian 12:13, 18 November 2006 (UTC))

Thank you for a swift reply. My concern was for the complete section that appeared to have been oblitterated in the process. In other words "info deleted". A minor detail ?

with maintained respect,

(Lunarian 11:26, 20 November 2006 (UTC))

"The way to say something" indeed., we must entitle ourselves a laugh once in a while. Si quieres ver a su amigo andar parraste a mojar. You are way ahead already. (Don't bother to understand)

 :D, (Lunarian 14:36, 20 November 2006 (UTC))

[edit] Crusades

What happened to WP:BOLD? And where are your comments on the talk page? It would make reverting a perfectly appropriate edit a bit more palatable if you'd have made some kind of comment other than "redo it." Kaisershatner 01:10, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Hi, since we've established each other's good faith I will edit and note this on Talk:Crusades rather than leaving you notes here as I go. Hope that's ok. Kaisershatner 15:00, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

That's fine. Better place to do it, where other editors can come it too.--Tigeroo 15:56, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Talk

My friend, If we have a discussion instead of reverting each other's edits we might contribute to improving the article. The article's outline as suggested by you was outstanding, and it stays. Now if you would send me a list of the issues you want addressed then we might end this edit conflict quickly, and contribute to a good article in the process.

Kindly tell me:-

• Sunga's actions are disputed. I can provide authoritative citations that they are. Will linking him to the acts alone not be enough instead of detailing those acts and disproving them in the next line, thereby resulting in conflict and confusion for the reader.
• The report, why does it belong in the "Political and military influences" section which addresses Buddhism under Indian rulers? Why not just shift it to later sections?
• A period of Guptas to Muhammad bin Quasim, includes both Shahis. We can write Turk and hindu or just Shahi. Your call.

Cheers!

Freedom skies 13:19, 12 December 2006 (UTC)