Talk:Tiananmen Square protests of 1989

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[edit] Article has been censored

This article has been censored by those who insist on removing images that depict the results of violent protests against the PRC government. The images removed are public domain images and depict burned out busses. The false reason cited for removing this evidence of violence against the legitimate PRC government is a false claim that the images are not public domain material. The truth is that the images were removed by advocates of a nation that sheds blood in the streets of Baghdad while making idle accusations against more peaceable governments -- in this case a government that patiently waited weeks while its capital city was occupied by protesters and which eventually dispersed the out-of-control assembly in proper fashion - by forcing the crowd out an exit of the square, left open in keeping with standard riot-control tactics practiced by responsible forces worldwide. I would fix the article, but I have no interest in playing Web war with Wikipedia administators who have nothing better to do with their lives than harrass and abuse donors they recruit to the so-called encyclopedia "anyone" can edit if they have the approval of Jimmy Wales and his quixotic cabal of fanatical anarchist administrators. Oroja 17:34, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] He says, she says

I thought I'd asked this before, but I can't find such a post, so my memory must be playing tricks on me. Anyhow, here's a question that's been on my mind for years. I believe there was a massacre, but many people in China aren't so sure. I was still in China with my family at the time, and my mom, who lived through the Cultural Revolution, believes the Party's version of events: thugs attacked and killed some troops and any bloodshed was the result of that. The lack of any footage of actual assaults on the students only reaffirms her belief.

How would you respond to that? You can't of course point to reports by the BBC or the US embassy. Xiner 02:25, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Did she take part in the protests or watch them? If not then she has no direct evidence to back up her opinion. John Smith's 17:00, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

And this Wikipedia article refers to no direct evidence to support an opinion to the contrary. We can respond to that by acknowledging that the wisdom of crowds has failed to identify any direct evidence of a massacre at Tienanmen. What's more, Wikipedia lacks well-informed articles about urban warfare sufficient to allow readers to compare the combat tactics of the Peoples Republic Army in June, 1989 in Bejing with those of the United States Army in Panama City on Dec. 25, 1989. A review of PRA combat tactics in 1989 Bejing can only be conducted in light of US actions in Panama that year, and of US urban-warfare tactics in Iraq, 2003-2006. How many Iraq streets have US troops sprayed with automatic weapons fire and worse, explosive munitions? How many civilians have been gunned down by US troops at checkpoints simply because the civilians didn't understand orders?

Wikipedia lacks any citations of direct evidence of a Tienamen Square massacre because there is none to be found. Wikipedia's article on the government's eventual response to the lengthy and disruptive protests reads more like the content of the advocacy documentary The Panama Deception than like a neutral representation of what happened when the government of the largest nation in the world restored control of its capital city.

How would I respond? I would respond by investigating the likelihood that thugs did in fact attack and kill PRA troops -- this is a widely-reported fact Wikipedia refuses to acknowledge, and for which Wikipedia refuses to cite any of the abundant sources from reputable Asian publications. Guess what -- a careful and concerned investigator will eventually produce the names of PRA troops attacked and killed. Of course reports of such attacks against the PRC government are censored from the Western press, but the rest of the world has a fair idea what happened. Unfortunately, Wikipedia and its cabal that pays homage (and donates free labor) to its libertarian-capitalist founder have no interest in reporting the truth as understood by reputable, established non-Western, non-capitalist publications. Oroja 18:41, 15 December 2006 (UTC)