Talk:Tiamat (band)

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[edit] Reverts

There seems to be a "war of reverts" going on in this article (which is quite odd, considering the limited mainstream popularity of the subject.)

Here's one version:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tiamat_%28band%29&oldid=18545126

Here's another:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tiamat_%28band%29&oldid=18655371

The first version had nothing significant that would require a revert (bias, vandalism, need for spelling/grammar cleanup) whereas, the second version is needlessly long-winded and scattered with obvious typos and incorrect internal links.

This has been going on for a matter of days and demands some attention/discussion. Danteferno 02:14, July 15, 2005 (GMT)

Here's an idea... why don't you contact me instead of stating that a revert war has been started? Revert wars do not constitute of two reverts, in case you have never watched an actual one unfold. This is a collaborative project. I am helping you. Or do you truly believe that an article which contains a sentence with "almost celestial synths" conforms to a neutral point of view? Do you actually understand that "preceed" means come before? I had made quick fixes to the article earlier, but now I have updated it to a proofed version. If you think there is something wrong with it, discuss it. Better yet, just change it, but state a good reason for doing so, intead of stating that something was "a redux which wasn't necessary". It was necessary. It still is, since the article is still lousy. It needs expansion, not quibbles over some non-material which barely qualifies as an article. If you want to claim ownership for it, do it when you make it a kickass article. Feel free to do whatever changes you want to it, just make sure you are actually following the rules and standards of the Wikipedia. Also, stop using HTML code on articles. It is useless and needless. --Sn0wflake 07:50, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

1. "almost celestial synths" has no NPOV problem. "Very beautiful synths" would. "Constant use of synthesizers" is very misleading, and anyone who heard their music would agree. Other quips:

" Tiamat is a symphonic and gothic metal band originally assembled in Stockholm, Sweden in 1988. "

Considering symphonic metal and gothic metal are two styles used together by many bands, there is no reason why there should be an "and". So symphonic/goth metal fits more.

"Edlund modified the band's sound substantiyally,"

Last time I checked, "substantiyally" is not a word.

"The album Wildhoney from 1994 is considered their transition album, combining death grunts."

The first draft of my article consisted of "harsh vocals" vs. "death grunts".Wildhoney had no death metal vocals. The closest Edlund got to extreme vocals was on "The Ar" and "Visionaire" and it was more of a deep yell, not "death grunts". Sumerian Cry was really the first and last death metal Tiamat album.

That said, I still fail to see (save for occassional HTML use) why a significant revert was neccessary. There are thousands of articles on Wikipedia that are a mess in terms of NOPV, spelling, and formatting (and I would imagine even one or two of those would at least have correct spelling for the word "substantially".) Danteferno 10:14, July 15, 2005 (GMT)

You made a valid point regarding the vocals on Wildhoney, so I stand corrected regarding that. Otherwise, you should realise that you are writing for an encyclopedia, not for a fan site. All I did was make the tone of the article more fitting for the Wikipedia, and yet you insist on reverting it, instead of working upon my version in order to build something better. If you fail to see how "almost celestial synths" is biased, there is probably nothing I can do to help you. If you want this bad for your prose to be the only on the article, I will not insist on wasting my time fixing it. Have fun reverting the article instead of doing research and improving it. --Sn0wflake 01:45, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

A bit of sad news for you: Most Wikipedia sites for bands are written more as a "fansite" than a non-biased informative. (The Tool page being the worst example,going so far as to mention books the band recommends). Why you have chosen this out of all is beyond me. And I can't see how describing Tiamat's synths as "celestial" is biased. The Gene Hoglan article describes his percussion skills as "technical" and "complex" - how is that any different? You have good intentions (and if you know about Tiamat, good choice in music) but like I said, such efforts are better applied when appropriate and truly warranted. Best of luck with future edits of other users' articles, --Danteferno 2:12, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

I haven't "chosen" this article. I have been working on articles about bands for over a year to fix this sort of situation you describe. Why you take the worst articles as a rule instead of the best ones is beyond my compreehension. --Sn0wflake 07:47, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Tiamat - Gothic Metal or not?

3 reputable websites confirm it:

[1] [2] [3]

Contrawise, a search on "Tiamat gothic doom" came up with no relevant results that would reflect the "gothic doom" tag had even been debated or discussed as their genre in the first place. (There is also still no website that lists how it would even be a different genre than gothic metal.) The same could be said for the Type O Negative and Moonspell pages, whose genres were changed to "gothic doom".--Danteferno 12:08, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Genre

Why the hell Tiamat is called "symphonic metal" or even "symphonic black metal"? Not a single its song has anything to do with "sympho", not to mention "black"!!! "Sumerian Cry" is death metal, "Astral Sleep" is doom or maybe death doom (and a wonderful one!), the same may be said about "Clouds". "Wildhoney" is doom, maybe athmospheric doom, but still - keyboards per se do not make the band "sympho"! "A Deeper Kind of Slumber" is doom also, but closer to psychedelic rock, all songs being about drugs. Other albums are gothic metal or gothic doom. Actually, I've never seen Tiamat defined as symphonic metal before. Finally, who called Tiamat "symphonic black metal"? Any reasons???

Cf: Tiamat at Encyclopaedia Metallum - no "sympho black"!

Blacklake June 19, 2006