Talk:Threefold repetition
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- In another amusing game, one of the players claimed a draw by repetition which his opponent disputed by saying that in the previous instances of the postion the positions of the two white rooks had been interchanged! What followed was a painstaking replay of the game by tournament officials on an alternate board to verify the claim.
I have removed this, as even if this very unlikely situation were to occur, such an interchange of rooks would not be an issue under modern FIDE rules. To quote part of article 9.2 of the FIDE laws of chess (see [1]):
- Positions as in (a) and (b) are considered the same, if the same player has the move, pieces of the same kind and colour occupy the same squares, and the possible moves of all the pieces of both players are the same.
Note in particular the part I have italicised. It does not say "the same pieces occupy the same squares" but rather "pieces of the same kind and colour". Therefore, even if such an interchange of rooks as described occured in a game, a draw could still be claimed.
I suspect, therefore, that the story is apocryphal. If it really did occur, the game must have been played under some other ruleset (or the arbiters were incompetent, which wouldn't really make it worth mentioning in the article). If this is so, there should be a note of explanation saying under what rules this incident occured, and that under current FIDE rules it would not. I think the story could also do with a source, as it sounds rather unlikely to me.
I also have my doubts about the Karpov - Miles story. Do we know when and where this game was played, or do we at least have a source for the story? A quick check through my database (which is not completely comprehensive, but which is pretty large) turns up no games between the two where this sort of thing happened. --Camembert
- Hi,
- Totally sure about the Karpov-Miles game. I remember that I read it in the "Chess Mate" magazine, so I could find the reference, but I have something like 200 copies of the mag, which would take hours, so I'm unwilling to do it.
- About the other game, it was some local tournament in India; either my memory is wrong or the arbiters were incompetent, either way, as you say, it shouldn't be in the article.
- Arvindn 13:30, 28 Mar 2004 (UTC)
No problem on Karpov-Miles - if you're sure it's right, I believe you. Do you have any idea about what year it happened, roughly? I want to try and track down the score (it would be good to quote in the article). --Camembert
Aha! I think I've found it: Karpov-Miles, Tilburg 1986 [2]. I'll add the reference to the article. --Camembert
- Wow, nice find :) Still, I have a lingering doubt: I seem to remember that it was Karpov who had lost the right to castle, whereas in the game you gave it is Miles! (and therefore the article is inconsistent as it stands.) Miles is apprently a jolly guy, is there a chance of emailing him or something? :) Arvindn 15:34, 28 Mar 2004 (UTC)
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- Ah, good point. Should've noticed that really. I'll take the reference back out for the time being, and see if I can dig up something more comprehensive. No chance of mailing Miles, I'm afraid - he died a couple of years ago - but I'll have a poke around and see if I can come up with anything. We'll get this sorted out eventually, I'm sure :) --Camembert
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- Oh, sorry, didn't know Miles died, about 7 years since I played tournaments; haven't kept up with news since then. Yes, it'd be real nice to get this sorted out :) -- Arvindn 15:52, 28 Mar 2004 (UTC)
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- You were right - It was indeed Tilburg 1986. So that issue is resolved :) [3] -- Arvindn 09:16, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Castling - temporary
The article says "Positions are not the same if a pawn that could have been captured en passant can no longer be captured or if the right to castle has been changed temporarily or permanently. "
I don't see any way for the right to castle being changed temporarily if the position is the same. If that is correct, "temporarily" should be removed from that sentence. Bubba73 (talk), 23:57, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Karpov-Miles
According to Chessgames, Karpov had white, so it was Miles' king that could castle in the first of the three positions. The article says it was Karpov's king. Chessgames.com is probably right. Bubba73 (talk), 01:41, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
- I changed it from Karpov to Black. Another thing, in the position shown, with the moves I got from ChessGames, under the rules, it should have been Black that was claiming the draw, not White (Karpov). Right?? Bubba73 (talk), 03:14, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Karpov-Miles, Tilburg 1986, position after 22. Nb5
As far as I know, it is impossible to have a white pawn on the A row. Is there something wrong with this game? Erikina 09:22, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
