Talk:The Who

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the The Who article.
A particular revision of this article has been selected as a candidate for inclusion in the Wikipedia OmniMusica.

I reorganized this page into sections because it was getting unmanageable. I did not try to separate the discussions of the histories of the band's name and membership into separate sub-topics, because they are entangled in such a way that it is difficult so figure out who said what and who was replying to whom. (Please get into the habit of indenting replies one level deeper than what you're replying to, and put them after any other same-level replies, and put your signature on each paragraph you write so authorship will remain clear when future replies separate your paragraphs. Also, if you're the author of any orphraned replies on this page, please consider relocating, indenting, and attributing them as appropriate.) — B.Bryant 14:37, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I suggest leaving the above paragraph and any replies to it on the page for a while, to see whether anyone objects to the reorganization, but then removing the discussion to archive if there hasn't been any outcry. — B.Bryant 14:37, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Issues

[edit] Autodestructive?

is it really right to call the guitar smashing and explosions autodestructive? its seems to be wrong,because it was the band members that were destroying stuff. Lord revan 16:25, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List of add/change requests

It would really be nice if someone could come up with the date for the use of Tommy material in March of Dimes fundraising commercials many years ago, and add it as a "However..." sentence after the existing mention of how some fans think the use of certain songs in commercials is a sell-out. — B.Bryant 14:25, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

IMO, the photo from the cover of The Kids are Alright would make a better group portrait than the cover from Ultimate Collection. However, I'm not going to change it unless someone else agrees. — B.Bryant 14:25, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I agree. I used the cover to the Ultimate Collection because you could see the members better, but The Kids Are Alright picture is more recognizable.~Shiri 02:29, Feb 20, 2005 (UTC)

I think people would find the EPs an interesting addition to the bibliography, if anyone can dig up the details. — B.Bryant 14:25, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I'll work on that, and start to make pages to their more popular ones. ~Shiri
IIRC, there are some notes about one or two early ones in the liner notes to the Delux Edition of My Generation. I remember that there was one with four tracks from Tommy, but I don't have any info on it. I vaguely recally that they released one in Germany, too. Also, it might be worth mentioning the unreleased EP that can be partially reconstructed from Pete's notes on Odds and Sods. — B.Bryant 05:06, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Need to add By Numbers to the history, and steal the following text about the departure from concept material. — B.Bryant 15:51, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Need to add famous festival performances to the history section, and possibly mention the Tommy tour and the 1970 live album. — B.Bryant 15:51, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

The history section probably merits a more detailed discussion of their hit singles. Also, was "Pictures of Lily" actually a 'hit'? It seems to me that there were far more important singles that aren't mentioned at all. (And for that matter, is it really psychedelic? I would think "I Can See for Miles" is a far better exemplar of the genre, to say nothing of being a bigger hit.) — B.Bryant 15:51, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

All Music Guide says it "made the Top Five in the U.K. in mid-1967, but, perhaps hindered by the controversial subject matter, stopped just outside of the Top 50 in the U.S." So it was at least a hit in the UK. However, I agree that it's really not very "psychadelic" - AMG calls it "a straightforward, catchy tune". I have no idea where "one of the most accomplished of all European contributions to psychedelic music" came from, so I removed it. Axlrosen 06:04, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

A few things: The piped links to years in music (Such as [[1967 in music|1967]]) need to be removed or replaced with something like, in [[1967]] (See [[1967 in music]]). This is standard to Wikipedia:WikiProject Albums. ~Shiri 03:06, Feb 20, 2005 (UTC)

Also, I think there should be a seperate page for the discography (a la Bob Dylan Discography or The Beatles discography). I think The Who put out enough music over the last four decades to merit another page for it. ~Shiri 03:06, Feb 20, 2005 (UTC)

OK by me. — B.Bryant 05:06, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)
A highly sparse list is here: The Who discography. It needs to be expanded heavily. ~Shiri 06:36, Feb 20, 2005 (UTC)

Does anyone object to Template:The Who I've put on various pages? I think it could use a bit of work, myself; it's a bit cumbersome. ~Shiri 03:06, Feb 20, 2005 (UTC)

It's fine by me, though I don't know know the conventions for such templates. — B.Bryant 05:06, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

All in all, I think this particular article is well on the way to featured status, and I plan to help with it until it is. ~Shiri 03:06, Feb 20, 2005 (UTC)

I moved that paragraph to improve the flow of the history, and also to group it with the other paragraph describing some characteristics of the band, but I'm still not happy with it. I think we should have an introductory section that characterizes the band and their music, then the history in its own section. — B.Bryant 05:06, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Like I say, well on it's way. It could certainly use work. ~Shiri 06:36, Feb 20, 2005 (UTC)

One more thing; the article needs to talk about who The Who (heh) have influenced with their style in the long run. I know that David Bowie , Green Day, etc. have covered their songs, so perhaps some mention of that. Shiri 05:05, Feb 21, 2005 (UTC)

We should make an article for some of their songs. I mean, The Beatles have an article for each of their songs, so why can't we make articles for songs like "Magic Bus" or "Substitute"? Also, we should also add "Then and Now" to the list of compilations. I haven't seen it on the list as of yet.

Kudos to whoever fixed the Marshall Stack section. It was so wrong before. I took a wack at correcting it. The new version is vastly superior to my effort. Clashwho 06:49, 21 April 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Images

There is a photo of an ARP ad featuring Pete Townshend at [1], which might be worth including if it falls under the fair use umbrella. — B.Bryant 09:32, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I'm not too clear how that falls under fair use, if you'd like to clarify for me. ~~ Shiri 20:31, Mar 19, 2005 (UTC)
Er...never mind, it's promotional, isn't it? ~~ Shiri 01:29, Mar 25, 2005 (UTC)

Photos — Since the portrait photos were taken at different periods of the band's history, we should add dates to the photo captions if we can determine them accurately. (If not, we should look for replacement photos that we can date.) Also, Keith's pic clips the edge of his face, so it would be good to find another photo to use for him. Finally, it would be nice to decorate the history section with a chronological sequence of period photos. — B.Bryant 00:18, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

  • Higher resolution: [2]
  • [3] A poster of Townshend smashing stuff up. Probably stands out on his own.
  • [4] Promotional photo of Roger Daltrey in 1975. I can probably get a higher resolution image.

There's more, but I'll put them later this week. I'm off to bed. ~~Shiri — Talk~~ 04:40, Apr 24, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Sound samples

I can upload some short sound samples here that are covered by fair use (Most of the featured music articles have a few). Any suggestions as to what songs to use? ~~Shiri — Talk~~ 23:56, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC)

Should we use warhorses, so people will say to themselves "Oh, yeah, I've heard that", or try to feature stuff that people are less likely to have heard? Either way, some variety in time and style would be nice. — B.Bryant 04:03, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Dec. 3rd, 1979

This was a nice edition, but a little NPOV and poorly placed. I have moved it here if anyone wants to tidy it up and put it back in.

"It is incredibly amazing how we missed one performance in particular - Dec. 3, 1979 in Cincinnati. 11 people were killed and several more injured when a stampede occurred outside Cincinnati's Riverfront Coliseum (since renamed). The concert was ticketed as first-come, first-served seating (festival, general admission seating). The doors did not open until the soundcheck inside Riverfront was complete. The crowd thronged outside the arena, hence pressing everyone against the closed doors. When the doors finally opened, the crowd rush inside was too much. People were knocked over as others tried to get inside. VH1 did a nice piece on this tragic concert about five years ago." - MightyMoose22 04:24, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV issues

The article contained several "recommendations". This is not acceptable per NPOV, however, if these can somehow be made neutral, they could be restored. I also removed horizontal lines and empty sections, as these are nonstandard and look ugly.

The comments in the tables could also use some stylistic/NPOV touch-ups.—Eloquence 00:53, Jan 1, 2004 (UTC)

I find it's sometimes valuable to summarize critical observations about a work of art in an article. For instance, observing the shortcomings of Tommy while recognizing its place in rock history would be valid, or noting the Who songs which are generally considered of historical or groundbreaking import. But I agree that a simple list of recommendations doesn't belong here. -mhr 07:07, 1 Jan 2004 (UTC)
Yes, lots of the stuff you removed was mine, and you did the right thing. I also agree with Michael's comments. — B.Bryant 14:25, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Discography issues

How come no foriegn albums are listed. I have a double vinyl set from Japan called the Perfect Collection (it seems to be part of a series). Although there is no refernce to a date at all, this stuff would be intersting to a who fan. Though I have to say the mastering job on The Perfect Collection varies highly from song to song. It has a very muddy sound overall.

There are a vast number of Who collections not mentioned in the bibliography. To avoid excessive clutter I only listed the "Period Collections" which are considered by many fans to be classic Who albums. The flood of additional collections started later, as the band became less and less active. — B.Bryant 13:50, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

What does V? stand for?

See the key at the bottom of the table it appears in. — B.Bryant 13:50, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Wasn't there a movie to go along with the Join Together tour album? Or maybe a live broadcast of one of the concerts? — B.Bryant 16:31 Dec 26, 2002 (UTC)

Yeah, I have it on VHS. It's called Who/Live Featuring the Rock Opera Tommy. Also, the recent DVD release has that show.

[edit] My Generation (song)

Can anyone confirm or deny that on "My Generation" on Live At Leeds Roger Daltrey replaces "Why don't you all f-f-f-fade away" with "Why don't you all f-f-f-fuck off". This point is in dispute at Talk:My Generation (song). Are there any other live recordings of "My Generation" where "fuck off" is used? --Bruce1ee (Talk) 10:01, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

I have always thought "f-f-fade"-part as an early piece of The Who- humour: You would think that Daltrey says "fuck" after prolonged "f" but he just says fade. --84.248.188.215 06:38, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Patti Smith's "My Generation" is about the most aggressive; can't think of it offhand. May listen to it later tonight.

[edit] Merge "popular culture" sections?

I have added tags suggesting merging the "Who songs in popular culture" section of the discography page to the "The Who in popular culture" section here. It seems we've grown some redundancy since last time I checked. Also, the section on the discography page always seemed to me like it should have stayed here when the discography was split out to begin with. – B.Bryant 01:02, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

I've merged them, but together the section is way too big to be on either page, so I've split it off to its own article. MightyMoose22 >Abort, Retry, Fail?_
11:27, 7 September 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Sounds and performances

I'm aware that the new "sounds and performances" section is somewhat redundant with the "history" section, since it includes some timeline elements. However, my intent is for the new section to tell the reader "what they sounded like", in contrast to the history section telling them "what happened". Though some redundancy is unavoidable under that scheme, I think we can minimize it by keeping those two foci in mind, and still have a detailed article that easy to digest. — B.Bryant 09:32, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)

It's only a bit redundant. It's a lovely edit, though, I was thinking that there was an obvious lack of explanation of their stage shows. ~~ Shiri 18:15, Mar 19, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] History of the band

[edit] Band's name and membership

The band was once known as The Detours, as well as The Highnumbers and The Who. In fact I think they were The Who twice. Can someone straighten out the history of their names? — B.Bryant 16:31 Dec 26, 2002 (UTC)

Also, what was their name when they picked up Keith Moon? Had they already abandoned one or both of their early names? — B.Bryant 16:31 Dec 26, 2002 (UTC)

> (Apologies if misformatting; just discovered this site) The first band JAE and PT were in was the Confederates. They bounced to various bands, including the Scorpions and the Aristocrats. Roger Daltrey, guitar player for the Detours and a year older than Pete and John, ran into JAE carrying his homemade bass and said, "I understand you play the bass." Roger asked John to come round to the Detours, which he did, ditching his schoolmate Pete. John eventually persuaded Roger to let Pete join.

At first, a six- or five-piece, they pared down to four with Roger taking over vocals, Doug Sandom on drums. They were the Detours through 1963. In February 1964, they renamed themselves "The Who" on Richard Barnes' suggestion. Sandom got the sack in April 1964, and Moon "sat in" from the Beachcombers in late April.

From July to October 1964, they were the High Numbers. On 3 July, they released I'm The Face/Zoot Suit on Fontana as the High Numbers. In November, as The Who (again), they recorded I Can't Explain, which was their first single as The Who, released 15 January 1965.

Hope this helps clarify the history of the name. --24.118.144.169 05:34, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)litgo (litgo@aol.com) 06:20 - 2004 09 23

BTW, "number" was supposedly Mod slang for "guy" or the like, so The Highnumbers was probably supposed to be an in joke (i.e., "the high guys", in Mod cant). — B.Bryant 16:31 Dec 26, 2002 (UTC)

My understanding is that "The High Numbers" was to reflect the music charts, the higher the better.

Speaking of Keith, were the drummers listed as "members" after him ever actually members of the band? I thought they just worked with the band as glorified session musicians, but were never actually inducted into the band. — B.Bryant 16:31 Dec 26, 2002 (UTC)

Kenney Jones (previously of the Faces and the Small Faces) was made full member of the band. The subsequent musicians (drummers: Simon Phillips, Zak Starkey) are just hired hands.

--24.118.144.169 05:34, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)litgo (litgo@aol.com) 06:30 - 2004 09 23

Kenny Jones, Faces and Small Faces drummer, was invited to join the group as a full member. The association lasted two albums, "Face Dances" and "It's Hard". Jones was in the midst of other projects when the Who went back on tour. After the departure of Jones, the Who used a number of excellent drummers including Simon Phillips and Jason Bonham.

> The Who never used Jason Bonham as a drummer. That was probably Led Zeppelin or some derivative. Zak Starkey, the son of Richard Starkey (aka Ringo Starr) is the Who's current drummer. --24.118.144.169 05:34, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)litgo (litgo@aol.com) 06:31 - 2004 09 23

They were certainly The High Numbers during an early moddish phase and they again certainly played under that name for 'suprise' gigs at e.g. The Marquee for the benefit of their intimates and the initiated well into their career as The Who in the '70s (I was there on one occasion!) user:sjc

[edit] Live at Leeds

It's inexcusable that Live at Leeds is not mentioned in the history section. I added mention of it, alluding to its reputation as one of rock's greatest live albums. That is not subjective.Clashwho 04:21, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm not actually disagreeing. But if you add it to the History section you have to chop it from the Performance section. In either case both statements are pushing a hefty POV and wherever it goes it needs to have a [citation needed] tagged onto it until it's cited. The article is in bad need a citations(at least 50!) Start with that one at least. And sign your posts on the talk page Anger22 03:46, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll see what I can do.Clashwho 04:21, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure but I have seen lots of references to it being one of, if not, the greatest live albums in Rolling Stone, Q magazine, and some other magazines. --FK65 13:42, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pete's hearing loss

Is it really the case that Townshend's hearing loss is primarily due to a Moon prank involving explosives? I've been a Who fan for 15 years and have read quite a bit about them, and this is the first time I've ever heard that theory. However, I've heard it frequently mentioned that his hearing loss is due to playing their music loud on headphones while producing and mixing their albums, and that the other members of the band have suffered similar (though less pronounced) hearing loss. That seems much more plausible to me. Is there written support for the Moon prank theory? -mhr 21:25, 15 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Yes, it's at least a couple of the Who books, although I don't remeber which ones (Richard Barnes's perhaps). And you can actually watch the incident in question in the movie "The Kids Are Alright." It's the Smothers Brothers segment. Moon had apparently bribed whoever was handling the small explosives that were to be set off at the end of the song to really juice them up. After the explosion, you can see Townshend swatting at his left ear. Pete apparently remembered this years later when the Who were watching this footage in "The Kids Are Alright" and started playfully hitting Moon, and saying "that's when it started!" I mean, who really knows where the actual damage occurred, but it's not out of the realm of possibility that this contributed to it.

  • Clarification:

While the Smothers Brothers incident was probably the "beginning" of the permanent damage, Pete has admitted often that it was listening to headphones in his home studio while recording demos -- and while drunk and not judging how loud he had it up -- that caused the most severe damage. For many years, he avoided any stage work involving exposure to significant volume, suffered from tinnitus (still does) and had difficulty hearing the frequency range of children's and women's voices. --24.118.144.169 05:34, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)litgo (litgo@aol.com) 06:24 utc - 2004 09 23

[edit] Misc

The "mods" versus "rockers" thing reminds me of the movie "A Hard Day's Night", when a reporter asked one of the Beatles (Ringo, I think it was) if he was a mod or a rocker. His response was, "I'm a mocker". soulpatch

I just did a minor overhaul of the page with my friend Brian, a dedicated Who fan who asked to see the entry on the Who when I showed him the Wikipedia and told him what a Wiki was. Mainly we included mention of "Who's Next" in the main article and made the earlier "I Can't Explain" the Who's first hit instead of "The Kids Are Alright". We also added entries for the Lifehouse project and the drummers after Keith Moon. This is in fact one of my first times using a Wiki. Tell me what you think. Nelson

  • Hey, I like it. "Who's Next" is the first Who album I've ever heard (and it's very close to my heart :-) ) and I'm glad to hear you've put a link to it in the main article. About "I Can't Explain," you did the correct thing (but I thought "My Generation" came before "The Kids"). The addition of the drummers was a very good idea; thanx. And finally, about "Lifehouse," it's very helpful. I don't think I'd understand it without the article. Not bad for a first time!!! -The Seeker

"...though other bands, notably Deep Purple, have since taken over that ambiguous honor"- shouldn't that be 'dubious' honor?

I put that change in there. True enough, we would usually use "dubious" in that turn of speech, but it is hard to say something like that in this case, as this "honour" may not be "dubious" in the eyes of some - a term like that would suit an entertainment columnist in the newspaper, not an encyclopedia. Derekwriter 04:54, 24 February 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Live 8 Heads-up

The Who are reportedly scheduled to play at the Live 8 concert, London on Saturday, July 2. It would be nice if people would keep an ear to the ground to take note of who's in the band's line-up, and at least a general idea of what they play, for addition to our history section. — B.Bryant 1 July 2005 08:28 (UTC)

[edit] Townshend/LSD????

Did Pete Townshend take LSD or not? I say no, thewho.net says no, and my friend agrees, however people think "Magic Bus" is a clear reference to the drug. Who is right? Also, did Roger Daltrey take any drugs? I have seen pictures of him with a cigarette, but that was the closest thing I've found.

-In many of the liner notes to their reissues (specifically Tommy) it is mentioned that some of Pete's work was inspired by his rejection of the psychadelic drug use of the time. Acid Queen is an example of how disillusioned he was towards much of the movement. However, in the liner notes to "The Kids Are Alright", it explains that their drinks were spiked with LSD at Woodstock.

I've heard an interview with Pete when he talked about deciding after a trans-Altlantic flight that it would be the last time he took LSD. So, based on that, yes. 89.168.7.225 08:42, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Roger Daltrey--hearing problem?

I once checked out "The Who: Live at the Royal Albert Hall" from the library and was looking at the pictures. I noticed that Roger Daltrey had something in his ear that resembled a hearing aid. Is it true that he is suffering from hearing loss, like Pete Townshend?

  • Probably an earpiece monitor. Lots of singers use them so they can hear their own vocals more clearly - the sound engineer sends a mix downplaying the rest of the band with the singers mic channel turned up. exolon 23:22, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
    • In-ear monitors have been used in recent years to replace the cumbersome wedge shaped monitors often seen at the front of stages, which block the audience view and cause audio feedback. googuse 01:15, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

There is no mention of this DVD on the main page. Is there a reason for this? I would like to read more about this live DVD.

[edit] Tribute band links

Please take the time to respond to, and see this discussion through to the end before reposting your link(s) AGAIN.

There are a number of reasons why tribute bands' sites are unsuitable for links on Wikipedia.

  1. They're not about the band in question, they're about the tribute band. People follow these links to find out more about The Who, and all they find out from a tribute band site is that a tribute band exists.
  2. You may know everything there is to know about the band, but all the site says is "We know everything there is to know about The Who."
  3. There are hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of tribute bands in the world. Should we be linking to every single one of them? If not, where do we draw the line? Who's to say that any one is more/less notable than any other?
  4. If the inclusion of these links is a genuine attempt to share your knowledge with the world, and has nothing to do with vanity and free advertising, then make a site about The Who and link to there.

The list goes on, but I'll leave it at that for now.

If you can give me (a) decent response(s), and convince me that I'm wrong about all of the above points, then I'll let you add all 75 of the tribute bands that play at your local pub every other month. :) - MightMouse22 00:13, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

And, as always, all comments from all users are welcomed and encouraged. - MightyMoose22 00:16, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
I agree. No tribute bands, please. They aren't about the main band. Hu 00:31, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
I see your point and it is a good one. I now believe, after seeing the reasoning and not just the game play of removal, that to keep the integrity of the wiki page it should reference only links dedicated to just the band. I also believe that Tribute bands (and there are only 4-5 that are strictly dedicated to just The WHO) are a great resource and can provide Q and A feedback about certain topics. I will not post our link to anything other than a page dedicated to the band. - Dpp8 18:28, 17 January 2006 (EST)
There are other links that set a precedent in this avenue. Until our Who only page is up, I think this is a reasonable reference. - Dpp8 02:32 22 January 2006 (EST)
I'm quite happy to keep it as it is at the moment if everyone else is. - MightyMoose22 08:00, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

I have some feedback - I would appreciate leaving the tribute band section as it is. As a last, passing reference. Your point about the dedicated tributes is absolutely true, they are a fantastic resource as to the band's history, and the bands listed here do terrific justice to The Who's legacy. - Whoo Arr Ewe —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 204.249.213.21 (talk • contribs).

Yeah, the point I was making is that whilst the tribute band might be a "great resource" if you were to meet them and get into a conversation, their websites rarely are. Especially if it's just a myspace page. - MightyMoose22 00:36, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Accuracy in Reporting

I've been reading this page off and on for a while, and I notice the factual content has declined significantly through the various edits. I don't want to sound snotty, or like I own all the Who knowledge in the world, but if you're not a rabid Who fan and are editing the page, you might want to check references to find information on what you're writing. For example, please identify Shel Talmy more clearly; he is not a record label. This is an error: "(he claims that he got the idea from watching Keith Richards in concert." Instead, Townshend claimed he got the idea watching Richards warm up before a show. Etc. TheWho.net "history" page would be a good place to start checking: http://www.thewho.net/ I also think it's insulting to Zak Starkey to call his work "pseudo-Moon playing." Although Starkey can perform the same artistic function for The Who that Moon did, his playing is much different. Pkeets 05:56, 28 January 2006 (UTC)


This Who entry is looking better. However, please check the "Line Up" section; note you later say The Who also briefly performed as The High Numbers. I still think it's insulting to say Starkey's drumming is "pseudo-Moon playing"; he plays with his own particular style. Whether or not Moon drove a car into a Holiday Inn swimming pool is open to argument; you may want to say this "may never have happened," rather that stating that it didn't; Roger Daltrey said in a recent interview that he saw the bill for removing it. The last section needs an update, as The Who are now predicting they will release a mini-opera called "The Glass Household" in June, 2006, and a full album later in the fall. 72.161.49.12 01:48, 24 March 2006 (UTC)Pkeets 01:49, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nazi uniform

Which bandmember was it that paraded in a Nazi uniform?

Keith Moon

[edit] lineup

in the band infobox, the lineup section is quite misleading. it would be most logical to emphasize the classic lineup they held for fourteen years. Joeyramoney 20:40, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree. I REALLY do not like this band line-up addition at all. The Who are Pete Townshend, Roger Daltrey, John Entwistle and Keith Moon. Only Kenney Jones can stake a claim to being a full-fledged member of the rest of those names. I know the addition says that when you read it, but on first glance it makes The Who look worse than Yes or Deep Purple in terms of ever-changing line-ups. It's very misleading. Clashwho 00:54, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

We should do it the way it was done for The Kinks. Clashwho 17:37, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

I've taken a shot at updating/upgrading the lineup section in my sandbox, take a look and let me know, and feel free to make any edits to it that you think will help. MightyMoose22 >Abort, Retry, Fail?_ 02:34, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
As for the infobox, I agree that it should be set out more like the Who template, wherein the classic lineup is emphasised and the other members (both past & present alike) are listed below, but in an infobox the only options are current members and former members, so it's not as easy as that. MightyMoose22 >Abort, Retry, Fail?_ 02:45, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scott Halpin

Why does Scott Halpin redirect to this page without mentioning his replacement of a passed-out Keith Moon at a 1973 show anywhere in the article? It's trivial, sure, but I wanted to know more about the guy and had to look it up elsewhere. 207.191.23.51 04:23, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cream

Did The Who really influence Cream all that much? Cream, at least to me, sounds much more blues oriented and has a much heavier guitar than The Who did/does. Flyerhell 20:28, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Which part of the article are you referring to? In terms of style - no, they didn't influence them that much, but the article doesn't claim they did. In terms of lineup (the power trio formation) - again, probably not really, but all the article says (maybe a little ambiguously) is that The Who did it first and Cream did it later. In terms of Amplification - yes, very much so. - MightyMoose22 14:29, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article length

This article is really long.. some condensing might be nice.

[edit] Influence

Obviously The Who have influenced a hell of a lot of bands, that's the point of the section, but we can't list all of them. We need to decide who to include and who not to (and how to cover those not mentioned).

I've taken out U2 and Queen as they're already mentioned just below, within the same paragraph.

I also think Nirvana and Sleater-Kinney are covered under the phrase "nearly all punk and grunge bands", and so shouldn't be named explicitly. Any thoughts? Is there any specific reason they should each be named?

Any other ideas? MightyMoose22 >Abort, Retry, Fail?_ 12:21, 7 June 2006 (UTC)


Nirvana and Sleater-Kinney will be named because they are significant enough to be listed seperately. A lot of "minor" bands are captured under "punk" and "grunge", but just as you wouldn't list Led Zeppelin and Cream under the rhubric of "several rock bands," we don't need to overlook Nirvana and Sleater-Kinney. Srsrsr 15:12, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

There are dozens of bands that are "significant enough", but we're not listing them. Is there any specific reason they should each be named? MightyMoose22 >Abort, Retry, Fail?_ 15:42, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
And while we're at it, what exactly makes them more "significant" than Rush... MightyMoose22 >Abort, Retry, Fail?_ 15:45, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
...who you keep consistently removing to make room for Nirvana & S-K? And actually, my comment about the power trio edit was in reference to when the phrase "power trio" was taken out. MightyMoose22 >Abort, Retry, Fail?_ 20:58, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Nearly any rock critic you consult will certainly enlighten you to the fact that both Nirvana and S-K have made a greater contribution (ie, better music) to rock and roll than Rush. At least, if you insist upon including Rush in the list, there's no reason not to include Nirvana and S-K as well. Srsrsr 21:31, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't insist on including Rush at all, I was just wondering why you insist on removing them. Your reason is highly speculative and EXTREMELY POV. I'll remove Rush if you remove Nirvana & S-K. MightyMoose22 >Abort, Retry, Fail?_ 21:46, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I really don't care about Rush's contribution to rock or lack thereof. The important thing is that Rush is one of the most Who influenced bands that there is. Geddy Lee was enormously influenced by John Entwistle, Neil Peart by Keith Moon and Alex Lifeson by Pete Townshend. Their early sound was primarily influenced by Led Zeppelin and Live at Leeds era Who, they then moved on to Who-style rock operas and synthesizer experimentation. Rush belongs in the article as a Who influenced band more than Nirvana does. Clashwho 21:49, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm very knowledgable about Who history and The Who's influence on various rock artists. Many of the quotations and almost all of the cites in the article come from me. I don't see why Nirvana and Sleater-Kinney deserve special mention beyond the "most grunge and punk bands" statement. If there is a quote from them that places considerable importance on The Who, as the quotes from U2 and Queen do, then we can add them to that section. I'm going to add some significant David Bowie and Pearl Jam quotes to that segment. Clashwho 20:04, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

I've added a quote from Carrie Brownstein on Pete Townshend. And since she's talking about his work with The Who, and not his solo work, the quote belongs in this article. Hopefully that clears up any confusion. Srsrsr 21:39, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I moved the Carrie Brownstein quote to the bottom of that paragraph, because it's simply not as important as the preceding artist quotes. It also ought to be edited. It's a bit long. Clashwho 21:55, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

STOP REMOVING RUSH. And Van Halen. Especially WITHOUT GIVING A SINGLE REASON WHY. I already backed up Rush's inclusion. Van Halen's inclusion is obvious as well. Clashwho 22:03, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Someone edited out the RELEVANT part of the Carrie Brownstein quote. The part where she says she strives to emulate his playing. That's the only part that's relevant. This section is about artists INFLUENCED by The Who, not artists who are merely fans. Clashwho 22:11, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, that was probably me, but if it was it was a mistake. A by-product of confusing and disruptive edit conflicts. Now that I notice it, though, it does quickly turn into an "I can do this" quote. MightyMoose22 >Abort, Retry, Fail?_ 22:21, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Nice job with the quote section! It's much cleaner looking, now. I fixed the Brian May quote. I took it directly from my recording of Brian May being interviewed by Tony Iommi on Planet Rock Radio. Clashwho 22:22, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Cool. Hopefully now we've reached a viable solution that's considered agreeable to all involved, nes pas? MightyMoose22 >Abort, Retry, Fail?_ 22:46, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Looks good to me! Srsrsr 14:00, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Current Members of The Who

Outside of Pete Townshend and Roger Daltrey, is there any official documentation that can state that the other members of the band listed in this article, are indeed members of The Who, and not musicians that collaborate with The Who? Just Curious. Tkd73 01:39, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Nope. The only official living members of The Who are Pete Townshend and Roger Daltrey. The others are employees. Clashwho 21:43, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

And what about Zak Starkey? your site says he is a current member already... shouldn't you ad him in your infobox on the right? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.61.254.83 (talk • contribs) 20:48, 3 December 2006 (UTC).
See the Zak Starkey's Membership section on this very talk page. His membership evidently hasn't been concerned. You say "your site says he is a current member" - whose site are you referring to (or are you referring to the note in the Wikipedia article)? -Erik Harris 16:38, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Worldwide Record Sales

I don't know who is adding these figures for worldwide sales. First someone claimed 150 million worldwide sales and I put a [citation needed] next to it. Nobody gave it a citation after about a week, so I deleted the claim. Now someone has just added a 210 million worldwide sales figure. I'm not even bothering asking for a citation. I just deleted it. If anyone has an actual legitimate cite for The Who's worldwide sales, please bring it to our attention. Until then, please avoid the sheer speculation on how many albums they have sold worldwide. The Who's biggest market is by far the American market, and the RIAA has them listed at 20 million as of 1993 or so. Of course, it's really more than that, but we're not in the business of speculation. Thank you. Clashwho 22:05, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Format

Shouldn't song titles be in quotes and album titles in italics? Right now, everything is in italics. That might be a little confusing. Clashwho 02:44, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

The short answer - yes. This needs sorting. MightyMoose22 >Abort, Retry, Fail?_ 14:45, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

I went through and fixed most of them, if not all. I wonder who thought they were being so helpful by putting everything in italics. Clashwho 07:20, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the effort. I'd imagine that with an article this long, about a band this prolific, it can't have been easy. MightyMoose22 >Abort, Retry, Fail?_ 22:35, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Featured article?

This is an excellent, comprehensive article. One of the regular contributors or a Wikipedia administrator who may have been tracking it should nominate it for Featured article candidacy. I won't do do myself since I'm not sure the main authors consider it complete and stable.--StN 05:44, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

I think the article is pretty locked in, now. I don't know how to nominate it, though. But I am quite proud of it. Clashwho 01:24, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Just browsing through...thought I'd pass along a couple of quick comments to help out. The article isn't too bad but has a long ways to go yet. 3 quick points that'll probably come up if a peer review is requested: A) It's very(stress VERY) long - B) there are about 32 cites...there should/could be about 32 more and - C) The citations all need to be footnoted. Just to compare to other FA's...look at Rush and Pink Floyd...which are both excellent music articles. Hope that helps! Good luck! Fair Deal

[edit] Here's something interesting...

In the official programme for the current tour, Pete's written a couple of pages about what the words "The Who" mean to various people. Including...

"...The Who is of course a brand with some historical spin and massive time lapses. Our Wikipaedia [sic] entry - for example - changes every few minutes as various editors add their own view..."

He also writes that "...The Who of today is a song-writer and guitarist called Pete Townshend and a rock singer called Roger Daltrey. There are two of us. And some friends...", confirming that they are considered (by Pete, at least - and what more do you need?) to be the only official members these days.
And in case you're wondering, they were fantastic and I can't wait for the new stuff to be released. MightyMoose22 >Abort, Retry, Fail?_ 22:31, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Featured Article

Does anyone think The Who article would make a good featured article? It is well writen and gives a lot of information, and with the tour going on as we speak it would be a good featured article.

DK08 September 15th, 2006 21:45

[edit] CSI theme songs

Shouldn't this article give information about all three CSI series using The Who songs as theme songs? -- Imladros 22:32, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Definitely shouldTOYOTA COROLLA OUTFITTED WITH A FERRARI V12 20:28, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Misspellings

I really don't appreciate it when I go through and fix the spellings of band members' names and some idiot changes them back to the erroneous spellings. It's Zak Starkey and John "Rabbit" Bundrick. What kind of a moron do you have to be to think "Rabbit" has two 't's? Clashwho 05:21, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Live at Leeds (mk. 2) tickets

I removed the sentence "Tickets to this particular show were sold in person only from the Leeds University Union, with sales limited to two tickets per person.[5]" because, whatever that website says, I bought four tickets over the phone from Livenation for the gig. The presale wasn't publicised much (if at all) but it definitely happened! Sven945 21:15, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Is that a ticket broker? If that's a ticket broker, it doesn't mean anything. Clashwho 05:08, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
Not sure what you mean by a "ticket broker"... They aren't a dodgy company who buy tickets in person then sell them on for huge amounts. Live Nation (a part of Clear Channel) were the promoters for the gig.Sven945 09:38, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
I don't want to delete it again (and potentially get into an edit war with Anger22), but I assure you I bought tickets over the telephone for this gig, from Live Nation! There presumably won't be any record of it on the Live Nation website anymore (since the gig was a few months ago), there was no email confirmation since I bought over the phone, but I'll do my best to find a website that confirms that you could buy tickets over the phone and online. Sven945 14:28, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Second paragraph

What the heck is 'art-influenced music'? Sounds like a nonsense, pedantic, elitist term to me, like 'synergy' or 'corporate malfeasence'. Chris 15:47, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Hell, I don't know. BabuBhatt 22:46, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
  • I think it's referring to Townshend's efforts to incorporate his art school background into The Who's music. Interviews with Townshend in The Who's early years were replete with this theme.Clashwho 14:24, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Leadership

I see some squabbling looming over whether PT or RD was the "leader" of the Who, in the opening discussion. I think the question is moot -- Townshend was the main writer, Daltrey to a large extent controlled the direction of the stage production. I've removed the clause as irrelevant. Sturgeonslawyer 23:09, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Trivia

i am going to speak to pete townsend about this and see what he says ... you might be a fan who keeps editing this stuff ... but towsnd was anti one dimensionality ... and his art encouraged others to fight for their individuality ...

  • Before you speak to him, perhaps you should learn how to spell his name. Clashwho 02:06, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Thats discrimination against dyslexic people my friend of which i am one ... Townshend ... can i speak to him now ... or do you wish to continue to give a demonstration of your acerbic wit perchance ... i care about humanity ... and The Who's music is a popular cutural phenomena that stands for freedom ... what do you stand for my friend ... what do you do for humanity ...

The Cardinal singer, and guitarist, with English punk rock band The Blood identifies The Who's live performance at Charlton Athletic Football Club, in the early seventies, as the moment that changed his life. As he walked through the streets of Charlton, his home town, he heard the chorus 'Im free, and freedom tastes of reality' resonating from The Valley where The Who were performing live on stage.The point that The Cardinal argues is that popular cultural phenomenon can drastically change, influence, move an individual's life trajectory.

The Cardinal singer with punk band The Blood argues that, at this point in his life, the religious-education he was being formerly schooled with was forcing him down a pathway toward one-dimesional fundamentalism such a kind of ideology that can lead to facism. The Guiness Book of Records later identified this gig as the loudest rock concert ever recorded in history.

I would argue that the above should be under the influence page but can see why it is located as trivia ... the point is it is a historical reality ... after leaving school at 13 fighting to sing, play and write, about freedom for each and for all became a life long voyage, and still is ... the influence, and power, of the aesthetic style of popular cultural phenomena gave me something to hold on to as i ducked and dived to survive in london's urban-underground ... The point that The Cardinal argues is that popular cultural phenomenon can drastically change, influence, move an individual's life trajectory .. if you ask an artist if this is one of the nuances that they wish to be fruitful in/of their works they will identify it as this ... e —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.103.215.158 (talk • contribs) 07:56, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

It belongs on the Cardinal's article, not The Who, and he doesn't need italic emphasis. Further, Talk page comments are signed with four tildes ~~~~ for time-date-ID stamp. Hu 09:13, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
  • The Guinness record is already mentioned in the 1970s section of the main article. I see no reason for a trivia section, considering what's currently in it. If you want a trivia section, put something worthwhile in it. Clashwho 02:09, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Who's Daniel Tossone?

In the first paragraph of the 60's section of the main article it said

"For the next 14 years The Who would be Roger Daltrey on lead vocals, Pete Townshend on guitar, John Entwistle on bass guitar, Daniel Tassone on rhythm guitar and Keith Moon on drums."

I'm pretty sure that there never was a member of the Who name "Daniel Tossone", whoever he is (unless some sort of invisible 5th member who nobody knows or cares about). I assumed it was vandalism and removed it, I'm sure there is no problem with my correction.--Bappzannigan 16:14, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

  • It was definitely vandalism. Clashwho 16:28, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Zak Starkey's Membership

Has Zak Starkey gained status as an official member of the Who like Pete and Roger? I read that he had been offered the position (on Pete Townshend's website). I also heard that he was leaving the Who to join Oasis full time (which I doubt). If he has been offered the position, and accepted, it would probably be good to note. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bappzannigan (talk • contribs).

There seems to be a big question mark on this one. There's a note on Pete Townshend's page, but it's a reproduced interview, and it's unclear whether the editorial note about Zak is part of the published interview, or editorializing from Pete's site's staff. If it's the former, it could very well be an error. I'm not sure that there's been any confirmation of the claim that he was offered membership. -Erik Harris 18:35, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
This has now been clarified on Pete Townshend's diary. Zak was offered permanent membership in The Who, but he declined. -Erik Harris 22:20, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kenney Jones

I would love to know why Kenney Jones stopped playing in the band. Did townshend kick him out? Did they just start using Simon? Why was this descion made? I am a huge fan and have never read anything about him stating he didn't want to play anymore or anything, has anything ever been written re: this?

Alex —The preceding unsigned comment was added by AM1234 (talk • contribs) 21:35, 3 December 2006 (UTC).

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