Talk:The Wall

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Set Album to Class B & Top Importance, I'd argue Top over High, The Wall is one of the architypal Floyd albums Megamanic 09:18, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

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Contents 1 Plot Relation to Continuity 2 Plot Section 3 Tour 4 Track Listing 5 It is indeed a rock opera 6 Censorship. 7 The Movie (and Concept) 8 The Album Songs 9 The Article itself 10 Not a demo 11 Covers 12 Potsdamer Platz Live 13 Trivia 14 Lyrics 15 Waiting for the worms - Trivia 16 "The Wall 2000" 17 Goodbye Blue Sky 18 Too long 19 "When the Tigers Broke Free" contradiction 20 Piper at The Gates of Dawn one of Pink Floyd's best albums? 21 The Berlin Wall 22 Interpretation of Comfortably Numb 23 Album Length 24 Some changes needed to shorten and tidy this article..

[edit] Plot Relation to Continuity

At the end of the track, it is known that with the continuity, the words "Isn't this where..." are heard. As we all know, back at the beginning of the album, at the beginning of the track "In the Flesh?", the words "...we came in?" can be faintly heard. The plot spoiler for "Outside the Wall" states that the fate of Pink is unknown, but with the concept of continuity, can't it be theorized that the cycle starts all over for Pink even after he destroys his mental wall? As in, someone else he knows dies (perhaps his mother), and he goes through the same phase again? I dunno, just spitballing here. I'd like to here what the rest of you have to say about this. --- Xephyrwing

• His fate is unknown- he may be free or it may start again. The point is, that even though he tore down his wall, someone out there, wether it be you, Pink or me, has begun the same cycle. MajorB 03:13, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

• • I don't get that it implies "someone out there" and not Pink starts over, that is a bit hard to be sure of, but I suspect we will each have slight variations in interpretation there. Is his fate sealed? I don't know, but it certainly implies that it is not over, and to me suggests that life is a series of trials and tribulations. The fact that the exact sentence rolls from the end of the album and onto the beginning suggests the same thing happening all over - just to what degree is it the same? Just my spitballing in return, not suggestions for article change here Fitzhugh 06:09, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

• • As I see it Pink is a symbol of humanity, and I think Roger Waters also said something to that effect in the DVD commentary. The cycle repeats itself, perhaps for Pink, but certainly for "someone out there". Clq 07:38, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Plot Section

I commented out the Plot section for these reasons:

• It was less a plot section and more of a synopsis for each song.
• It didn't look that good compared to the rest of the article, both in structure and style.
• Each song has it's own article, and plot details should probably be placed there.
• There's already a detailed plot description in the Concept section.
• It did not take into account that the concept has some room for interpretation of events.

MajorB 19:41, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tour

Moved this from the article to here: <<Pink Floyd began a tour to promote The Wall, but the gigantic, elaborate state show was so expensive that it quickly lost money. The tour was cancelled after only a few performances.>> This is incorrect. The show played in New York, Los Angles, London, and another European venue too I think. Each city got 2 weeks of shows, or something. Waters, Gilmour, and Mason all invested in the show (Wright was kicked out of the band by now, yet still played the tour), and made no profits, pretty much paying themselves, and the crew, backup singers etc. to play. The shows were elaborate though, with three screens projected onto a carboard-brick wall that was built throughout the first half of the show, and broken down at the end

-- Zoe

[edit] Track Listing

Unfortunately I do not have this on vinyl, and have only a cd recording. But the first track of disc 2 on my album is "goodbye cruel world" done over with a longer intro and outro. Do I have an obscure version, did they change it from original vinyl to cd versioning, or is the track listing in need of correction? I am not certain, and am thus posting it here rather than editing. Kai

The version you are referring to is the soundtrack album from Pink Floyd The Wall (film). Just64helpin

I have a CD version I bought today, which was digitally re-mastered in 1994, and the track listing is the same as in the article. JP Godfrey 16:48, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Would anyone happen to have the original track list as in the vinyl record lp? Like how the tracks broke down on each side. [unsigned]

Ok, i have changed this to reflect the original LP tracklisting. As this work was originally released before the advent of CD i feel the tracklisting should reflect its original release format. I think that with Pink Floyd in particular the constraints of having to split an album accross 4 sides made a difference in the production of their work. i.e. If CD's were around at the time you would probably find longer tracks, no breaks between tracks etc.. I hope this is okay with everyone? - Murphyweb 6th Feb 2006

[edit] It is indeed a rock opera

Someone who previously edited this article asked "what is a rock opera", and thereby removed the term from the article.

I have reinstated the "rock opera" status to "The Wall" as it is just that...this is an album that tells a definitive story. I also left the term "concept album" in the article, because, as it is explained under the rock opera article, sometimes a rock opera can also be classified as a "concept album", so "The Wall" carries both meanings.

Hiphats

[edit] Censorship.

The quotes near the bottom have an asterisk in the word "Fuck" in the last paragraph, but the word "fuckin'" does not. I assumed this was intentional censorship on the part of the writer and went into the editing console to remove it (since censorship should have no place in a reference material, in my opinion.)

I discovered that in the console, it is not censored.

...What's going on? Does wikipedia automatically censor it and simply not recognize the "fuckin'" string as a curse? And how would we go about curbing the censorship if it *were* automatic?

Test fuck 80.41.205.100 11:13, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Movie (and Concept)

The movie plot given in this article differs significantly from the story or concept behind the album, in that it claims that Pink tries to commit suicide, and actually does become a neo-nazi leader. I think that the movie pretty much mirrors the concept as described in the article - a lot of the events depicted in the movie are metaphorical. Pink tearing melting worms of his face and emerging as a fascist leader can't be taken literally.

Vhata

Of course it could be taken literally, it's a metaphorical story. Yes, the fact that he was a Neo-Nazi was a metaphore for turning fear into hate (or whatever your own interpretation of it is) but that doesn't mean it was a metaphore within the story. You could say that Cinderella was a metaphorical story, but that doesn't mean that the character in the story didn't really magically go to the ball.

I also strongly feel that there should be a part in the concept section that says the story can have multiple interpretations: The basic rock star/audience relationship, Isolation within the self, I know some serious Floyd fans who believe this album is actually about Hitler (Sitting in a bunker, here behind my wall). See the analytical web site linked at the bottom of this article for much more about the concept.

[edit] The Album Songs

I made articles for each of the songs (except for ones with an article). If there is any problem with them, either change it or we can duke it out. Househippie

[edit] The Article itself

Is wikipedia copyrighted? because ive seen the exact same article in various internet pages. Just thought that might interest someone. On a side note, I tend to second the opinion that alot of things can't be taken literally on the album. Though it is very difficult to say which, especially as the movie/album doesnt follow standard narrative.

-an anonymous user of wikipedia

[edit] Not a demo

A minor nitpick but it really should be addressed in the interest of accuracy. What you discuss here as a "demo" of The Wall isn't really a demo per se. You should probably just refer to it as early recordings. Demos are usually quite polished and intended to present the work to those not involved in the creation process like record execs and music industry people. I've heard these "demos" and it sounds more like a working rough meant for internal use, i.e., for band members, Bob Ezrin, etc. It's much too rough to be called a demo. You should change reference to it to "early recordings" and explain it something like "What is commonly thought of as a demo of The Wall is most likely an early recording intended for internal use only... blah blah..." Or at least include a disclaimer like "Note: we use the term 'demo' here only because it is frequently called that although it likely isn't a demo... etc."

I wrote an exhaustive, four-part examination of these recordings for Spare Bricks and you can read my intro to it here:

http://sparebricks.fika.org/sbzine12/brickbybrick.html

I explain this in much more detail there. If you want to use any of the wording from my article to explain this here, feel free.

Agreed, i do not think this needs to be referenced in here, all these songs are just early versions of the finished article, every single band will have early tracks of songs hanging around, many of them now on the net. This section would be more at place on the main Pink Floyd section under a heading of "unreleased material".

[edit] Covers

Aside from the well-known mentioned compilation, various artists have covered "The Wall". Best example I can find is [Luther Wright and the Wrongs] "Rebuild The Wall", but there are others - and other covers of single songs, like the Scissor Sisters' Comfortably Numb. Question is, do these bear mention?

[edit] Potsdamer Platz Live

I just found out that the live performance at the Potsdamer Platz (Berlin, 1990 or something) isn't here. People, that one is just too historical not to be featured. With some luck I'll be able to have that written within this week. Nazgjunk - - Signing is ^{for Whimps} 20:22, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Trivia

The newly added trivia section needs some formatting. -Ashwin Vishnu

The whole lyrics for "Waiting for the Worms" can be found at: [1]

[edit] Lyrics

I posted the lyrics to the songs on their pages. Promptly, I recieved a note telling me not to post lyrics anymore becausethey are copyrighted (which they are, that's not what I'm arguing). What I am saying is that it doesn't make sense, because these lyrics are not beig used for any personal gain other than the knowledge of the song's lyrics. And if ad-supporting sites such as songlyrics.com, letssingit.com, and lyrics007.com can post the lyrics to these songs, what makes wikipedia different. And if I am wrong, please do not slash me, but instead tell me courteously. P.S. If I added the copyright information to the lyrics/article, would that make it legal?

"If I added the copyright information to the lyrics/article, would that make it legal?" No. Artists can choose to close their eyes to all the lyrics, guitar tabs, etc., but they are still possible to be taken as copyright infringements. The only thing that makes them legal to be posted is a written authorization from the author. —Rotring 14:23, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Waiting for the worms - Trivia

In the audio commentary on the new The Wall DVD, Roger Waters mentiones that the shout out commands were mostly improvised when recording. I am not sure if there is an online source to this. Can this be added without a linkable source? Thanks. Clq 20:33, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "The Wall 2000"

The last item in the Trivia section mentions two tribute/re-imagining albums. Should Out of Phase's ambient/dance The Wall 2000 [2] be mentioned as well? —alxndr (t) 21:47, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Goodbye Blue Sky

What is the real plot to this song? Is it just a matter of opinion? I personaly think it's Pink looking at the Germans bombing over London.24.188.127.35 03:10, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, its rather Pink thinking about it than actually looking at it. The animation part in the film is based on the childhood memories of the animator, Gerald Scharfe. As far as the meaning of the plot goes, in my opinion it is more of a way to set the mood than an important part of the plot.

The following is from the wall - a complete analysis: "In an interview around the album's release, Waters described the song as being a recap of the first side of album one summing up Pink's life to that point. As Waters says, in it's most simplistic form "it's remembering one's childhood and then getting ready to set off into the rest of one's life." " and "Pink is saying "goodbye" to the "blue sky" of his childhood innocence and the protection of his mother."

Clq 17:20, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I believe it is about the Cold War. "...the flames are all long but the pain lingers on...". This could be London on fire during the Blitz or radiation sickness.

[edit] Too long

Could we split this article in a near future?--Doktor Who 22:38, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "When the Tigers Broke Free" contradiction

The page for When the Tigers Broke Free states this song was written "at the same time as The Wall, hence its copyright date of 1979". This suggests it was not "written for the movie" as stated in this article. However, it could be true if Waters was envisioning a movie even then — does anyone know if this is true? Alternately, is it known if this song was considered for inclusion on the album? --edgarde 05:05, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

As I understand it the When The Tigers Broke free pt. 1 was originally written for the album, but not included. I -think- the later part (where he thinks about his father) was written for the movie. I am not entirly sure about this however, but I know it is mentioned in the commentary on the new The Wall release. If someone could check this out it would be nice, Ill check it myself when I get the time for it. Clq 14:58, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Piper at The Gates of Dawn one of Pink Floyd's best albums?

I know the hardcore Floyd fans like to name drop Piper as being a great album...but seriously people. I think the idea of naming the "great" pink floyd albums is stupid anyway, since it's purely opinion. But most would definately agree that Wish you were here and Dark Side are on that list. I think putting Piper on that is dumb. I personally like Piper, but it is not at the same level as the other albums, and i know i'm going to get a million pretentious rhetorts...but there's just no way.

No, I completely agree. But I'll let it stay until consensus - perhaps you will hear a million pretentious replies (I don't think I noticed it still there, actually). Fitzhugh 06:03, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Berlin Wall

I have a photograph taken recently by me of a section of the Berlin Wall showing old graffiti of sleeve note art from the album. Would this be of use in the article? JP Godfrey (Talk to me) 16:58, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Interpretation of Comfortably Numb

The current interpretation in the article seems really far off base. It seems highly implied that Pink is in an opium haze when they find him in his room. The doctor lies to him, saying "Just a little pinprick. There'll be no more pain, but you may feel a little sick." In the middle of his line he injects Pink with an opiate killer (Naloxone? Something like that), which kills the high almost instantly and hurts like hell. Hence.... all of Pink's screaming at this moment? 12.175.230.58 02:59, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Your suggestion regarding Naloxone fits perfectly (um, let's not get into how I know...) Assuming he was not truly strung out, just high, he would go through hell but then, after a very short while, be all ok and able to put on a show. If he were truly strung out he'd then be too sick with withdrawl to put on a sock, let alone a show - though that distinction probably doesn't matter for this case since I'm in no way trying to argue about whether he was strung out or just high... he had major issues regardless. Right now it says he was given antidepressants! I think we'd have a song about bunnies and flowers and bright happy days in the sun at this point if they gave him antidepressants... just kidding, not saying that a dose of prozac would fix him at that point, but it DOES NOT FIT! Plus, antidepressants are not given in shots. It also says above in Another Brick in the Wall part something that he had given up all the drugs by this point... doesn't Comfortably Numb occur right, soon, after he'd lined a vast array of drugs and stuff around on his hotel floor? I haven't seen it in years, I'm afraid, but I saw it many times as a teenager, so I am sure about the antidepressants not fitting, and the opiate haze/shot of opiate antagonist/utter screaming hell/able to function fitting very very well. Secondly, I concur that this whole section has problems, but I do think it is important information. I think perhaps a synopsis section here, with links to a separate full article for plot, would be the best approach since the songs as a whole DO tell a story, and that needs to be explained in some degree in the article, just not in this format.

After further contemplation; I really, really hate the entire Plot section. I agree broadly with MajorB, and add that this section comes off as fanboyish. The site (one of dozens) with an interpretation of the album (which is linked to in the article), leans toward my interpretation of Comfortably Numb. But; individual consideration of each song belongs in its own article. I support the Plot section's removal. 12.175.230.58 02:59, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Album Length

I just counted up the length of the songs in the track listing and got 1h 17m 20s -- a full four minutes shorter than the previous total length. Could someone verify the length? --Jon Terry 20:26, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps you counted the times as they are listed for each song and that (perhaps) doesn't account for the space between songs, as would be when you read about how long an album is start-to-finish? I don't know, just a possible answer. Fitzhugh 05:40, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Some changes needed to shorten and tidy this article..

Hi, just some ideas but i think we all agree something is needed.

This article should be about the recording "The Wall" and nothing else, it is important to talk about the live shows preceding and effectively giving birth to the album but apart from that this should be only about the album. There should be just a mention that a film was made and a link to the films article but nothing else, likewise with subsequent live shows etc..

Same as all the rest of the fillers in this article...

Post-Split - Get Rid Additional tracks from the film - Get Rid " " Live Concert - Get Rid

Unused Tracks - No, this is about the album, if they are not on the album then who cares? Do we have an article on unrecorded Floyd songs? if yes put them there, if not then maybe there should be one!

Cover Versions - No, Who cares? Likewise either put them in the Floyd article or make a new article for Floyd covers.

I think the plot section has no place in this article at all, all it does is follow the plot of the film and this is just a version of the story of this album that was written for Hollywood. As we all should know this album carries too many story's and meanings to have any kind of plot, i am sure we all have our own ideas of what this album is about and non of us are wrong. I do not want to see someone else's interpretation given as fact.

As you can guess this album holds a special place in my heart and life as i have grown up with it since i was a boy when it was release. Many of the songs hold great meaning for me.

I propose a complete re-working of this article, starting from scratch and i would like to help do this. What do other think?

I think it is important to include at bare minimum some mention of side works. The Wall was planned to be a multi-pronged product from its inception - album, show, and movie. The additional songs not included in the initial album (such as When the Tigers Broke Free) should definitely be considered part of the canon of the works; they are available all over the place in a myriad of forms of "The Wall." The only part of this article that bothers me personally is The Plot section (see above), since it is outright WRONG in several places. I support removing it readily, and will do so in a few months if someone else doesn't speak up for it, or deletes it first. 12.175.230.38 21:03, 7 December 2006 (UTC)