Talk:The Transformers: The Movie

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Fortunately the familiar characters from the weekly television series are replaced by a new line of characters/toys made specifically for the movie.

Fortunately??! I was scarred for life when they killed off all my favorite characters... --Brion
Absolutely. It was insane.
On another matter, why does every popular fiction buff who wanders into Wikipedia feel the need to create huge numbers of tiny useless stubs? Sorry 68.81.4.209, no offence, perhaps our policy documents aren't very clear in this area. But there's a pretty clear precedent. -- Tim Starling

We may need a common Transformers page where both the movie characters and the TV show characters can be discussed. -- Tim Starling 13:28, Sep 16, 2003 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Alternate versions shown in theatres

"The fact of Transformers dying so easy to a few shots or one shot is itself a controversial subject. In the television series many of the Transformers are shown to be able to survive multiple shots with little or no after-effects."

The version of the movie I saw, in NYC, actually had hound do some exposition while he and Prime were standing outside the ship, before Prime took off to fight Megatron. He offers the theory that Megatron had finally succeeded in acquiring a new source of energy that made him much more powerful. He continued that if they could just stop Megatron that it would "turn the tide" of the battle. Prime then states his intention to fight Megatron, to which Hound replies that it's certain death and that it's not worth Prime's life (which is weird considering how many had died that day). Prime replies: "Megatron must be stopped...no matter the cost". I suspected that Prime would die after that talk, which is maybe why it was omitted in later versions...it wasn't nearly the shock to me as some people have told me it was to them. I guess it also explains away the "Brawn" controversy as just about anyone Megatron shot would get a hole blown through them, while also adding significance to the exchange where Prime dodge's Megatron's shot and knocks the cannon off his arm.

Of course this is all from memory (I was 7 years old at the time) and not to be thought of as what was said verbatim, but I'm absolutely sure Hound DOES speak and that this is the jist of what he says. --JamalB

I'd have to say that I think your memory decieves you. No such scene was in the original script for the film, or the storyboards, and Ken Sansom is not credited for Hound, even though other characters with lines cut from the finished film (Dirge, Prowl, Inferno) are. People occasionally claim to remember Ultra Magnus being quartered and things like that, but those WERE in the script, storyboard and comics adaptation. This one's a new one on me. - Chris McFeely, 16th May 2006

[edit] Title

Im new-ish to Wiki so im not sure how this goes.

Since the film is actually titled, The Transformers: The Movie... should this page be renamed? - UnlimitedAccess 01:02, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

It's popularly abbreviated TF:TM or TFTM (as on the Lighting Their Darkest Hour CD), so I'd stick with Transformers: The Movie --JohnDBuell | Talk 04:49, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Orson Welles

IMDB reported, after one of the Botcons (don't remember which year, sorry), that Susan Blu (voice of Arcee) discredited the "Orson Welles didn't live long enough to finish all his lines" story. Can someone independently verify this? --JohnDBuell | Talk 04:49, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

It was at Botcon 1998, during the voice actor panel.


When he died he had already recorded all his lines

[edit] GALVATRON resolves the Matrix

The main page was sloppy, so pardon my stepping on everyone's toes with a trimming rewrite. The first synopsis was too factually bland, lacking dramatic interest; the second had redundancies and parts tended to mirror movie lines too slavishly. But the third bowl of porridge was just right! haha. ...Seriously, the previous synopsis duplication was ridiculous; splitting the difference, I merged parts of both and added some clarity for the (non-TF fan) lay readers, removing the following clutter of extraneous details:

  • "...featuring a humorous scene where Devastator hits Sludge on the back, causing his eyes to pop out in a cartoony fashion..."

— This is literally a half-second comedy-relief shot, hardly worth mentioning here (or anywhere, hopefully).

  • "...when Hot Rod intervenes in a misguided attempt to aid him."

— It is not "misguided", only unsuccessful. It illustrates Hot Rod's daring and selfless nature, and this failure instills guilt so that his later transformation to Rodimus also serves as his personal redemption, giving the metamorphosis an emotional purpose.

  • "...the tide of battle is turned..." (...and several other examples.)

— I don't care for synopsis points that borrow verbatim from movie dialogue: it's lazy, lacking originality, and renders the article redundant alongside the DVD.

  • "...reciting a prophecy which says that one day, an Autobot will use the power of the Matrix to light their darkest hour."

— This is not a prophecy per se but simply foreshadowing dialogue -- ie., prophetic words in hindsight, whereas "reciting a prophecy" would be pre-established in legend.

  • " As Prime dies, the Matrix slips from his hands and is caught by Hot Rod, glowing brightly in his hands before he gives it to Magnus."

— Edited, I moved this to the accompanying image caption.


From the (now renamed) "Characters killed" section:

  • Unicron refers to “Cyclonus and his armada,” but one duplicate does not an armada make.

— I've considered that perhaps the "armada" in question was referring to the fleet of five flying platform-thingies that sweep into frame (from who knows where!) alongside the two transforming Cyclonus bots; at first glance, these are assumed to be Scourge and the Sweeps, but their numbers don't add up by that reckoning. Their number disappear (to who knows where!) in the subsequent shot where Galvatron et al circle to board their shiny new spaceship.

  • "There are those that consider Bombshell to be Cyclonus, simply because that’s what the animation shows (of the two on-screen at that moment, Bombshell is the one closer to us and therefore appearing more prominent), while Skywarp supporters see being turned into a mere expendable Sweep as an ill-fitting end for one of the original Decepticons. Individually, the two characters possess certain personality traits that make them suited to being Cyclonus - for example, Skywarp's blind loyalty to Megatron, mirrored in Cyclonus's own, and Bombshell's occasional leadership of the Insecticons, mirrored in Cyclonus's position as second-in-command of the Decepticons. However, this can largely be argued to be irrelevant, as neither Cyclonus nor any of the other Unicron-reformatted characters ever displayed any knowledge of their past lives."

— The bulk of this dizzying tract amounts to: "Character X deserved a better fate, according to Fanboy#419!" ...Honestly, how many paragraphs of fan speculation and pet theories is the reader expected to slog through in an encyclopedia entry? Too much space was devoted to this trivial debate, none of which was offering anything concrete. Here's the short version to surprise the would-be rationalizations of fans: The animators erred, or changed their mind halfway through. The end. — Shocking, isn't it? No need to fabricate elaborately apologetic continuity excuses. The real reason for so many Sweeps in season 3 is because the stories required disposable cannon fodder.

Calling these "Controversies" sounded too pretentiously political or academic, so they've been renamed as well.

Other than that, I moved the cast list higher up, stuck the leftover Optimus pic off to the side (reformatted to true 4:3 ratio with color correction and at a lower resolution), and rearranged the character lists into tables to shorten the vertical scroll of the page.


GALVATRON 10:12, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


[edit] The illustrator of TF's Japanese theatrical poster

I've read several TF VHS/LD scans through internet sample, his name should be "Yoshiyuki Taka...". I can't clearly see his last name, but I spent the whole day searching in Japanese websites, there's a anime/model illustrator named "Yoshiyuki Takani" (He's infamous in US). He has a similar style to his drawings, I'm 95% sure that's him. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks.

-- Red Kid 14:12:55, May 27, 2006 (UTC)

[edit] EDIT NOTES to user 198.111.167.130 :

  • Questions regarding Decepticons altered by Unicron

— It's not necessary to include Unicron's role in the subheading title; it becomes too unwieldy.

  • ...and the Insecticons appear at several points in the thrid season of the tv series...

— This info doesn't belong there; the topic of that opening paragraph is only about trying to determine who's become who as seen in the reformatting scene of the movie, NOT general continuity errors relative to the TV show. Insecticon TV appearances are fully noted in a later paragraph, no need for repetition.

  • Also of note is that Thundercracker is identified as Scourge as he is altered by Unicron, and then Shrapnel and Kickback are identified as the Sweeps as they are altered.

— Redundancy: Info regarding transformations of Thundercracker and Bombshell was already stated in the first paragraph of this section.

  • However, Skywarp and Bombshell both become Cyclonus-style robots at exactly the same time.

— Redundant: Already denoted by your earlier addition of the word "simultaneously" to the first paragraph.

  • At the same time, Galvatron clearly possesses Megatron's memories, and implies that he killed Optimus Prime ("First, Prime. Then, Ultra Magnus. And now, you.")

— That direct association is not necessarily the intent of said dialogue. Galvatron may simply be listing the prominent Autobot deaths to intimidate his opponent in their fight, and also for dramatic effect by signalling to the audience that there's a real chance Rodimus could lose. I think the idea with Galvatron's schizophrenia in the third season (especially evident in WEBWORLD) was to show his increasingly distancing himself from his old identity following his 'rebirth'. ie., Even though perhaps rationally aware that he was once Megatron, he feels that his old life is far removed from his new form, or now regards himself so superior that the old identity is beneath his acknowledging, leading to his mental schism.

  • Also of note is the fact that Frank Welker, Megatron's voice actor, took over from Leonard Nimoy as Galvatron in the tv series.

— This performance switchover has nothing to do with making any sort of deliberate character statement but stems more practically from the fact that the TV series could not afford to keep a movie star in the character's role full-time. (...Spock has places to go, people to see, and commands a hefty fee.$) Frank Welker was the natural replacement from the existing cast, being the man of a thousand voices and already adept at playing the villain.

~ GALVATRON 04:26, 1 June 2006 (UTC)


EDIT REVISIONS:
  • " shortage of fuel in the spacefaring Astrotrain "

~ Omitting this qualifying statement leaves the lay reader (anyone who hasn't viewed the film) with no distinct way of knowing that the event occurred in interstellar transit rather than just in flight. I'm assuming you're taking issue with the asserted "fuel shortage", inferred from Astrotrain's erratic flight path and dialogue in that scene. If you prefer, you can change it to read "Elsewhere, damage to the spacefaring Astrotrain...", but the former explanation is more viable given that fuel (ie., accelerant /thrust) is the only factor in space travel, where there are no aerodynamic considerations to be affected in a vacuum — ie., a cracked wing (or whatever external damage) wouldn't affect trajectory outside of atmosphere — and Astrotrain openly states his concern is excessive mass.

  • " ... are greeted by..."

~ I don't like this alteration. It sounds too welcoming when in fact Unicron is imposing his god-like presence. (Yes, I know he introduces himself with the word "Greetings...", but it takes on a different context in prose, and a synopsis transcription doesn't have to directly lift movie wording unless your aim is to bore us with echos.)

  • "... in exchange for hunting down Ultra Magnus and destroying the Autobot Matrix of Leadership"

~ It is not an "exchange" (which makes it sound too equitable) so much as it's an ultimatum. The word "threat" was specifically included in my synopsis to indicate that the Matrix is a danger to Unicron's goals — that's his entire motive for wanting it destroyed, and this shorthand way of expressing that fact was more economical than the previous synopsis which basically regurgitated Unicron's exposition about wanting to consume Cybertron.

  • "Given the choice of either accepting Unicron's offer or being destroyed..."

~ You're using the word "destroy" too often — it's already in the preceding sentence — and you're over-explaining. Unicron's extortion is clear enough by saying Megatron was "tortured" into compliance. Readers can go watch the DVD if they want to more details about the scene — this is supposed to be a summary, not an essay. Your other additions to this paragraph were specious filler material: WHY pointlessly add "Galvatron and his new warriors" when there's no one else to speak of in that scene, so it's perfectly obvious who we mean by "them"?? WHY would you redundantly say "finally...", when "conclusive" is already specified??

  • "Questions regarding the Unicron-created Decepticons"

~ Your objection to the term "reformat" is unwarranted; the word is not exclusive to computer drives, if that's what you're mistaking. (Check a dictionary.) Nor were the characters "created"; they were redesigned from their original parts. Unicron's name is not required in the section title since there are no Decepticons modified by any other means IN THE MOVIE, which is the topic of the article; this is not an all-inclusive "Transformers universe" article where it would be necessary to distinguish Unicron's involvement. Besides which, his name pops up at the beginning of the first paragraph, if there were any outstanding confusion.

  • "... (identifiable by the fact that he is the only Sweep whose head is sticking out in vehicle mode)"

~ Uh, that's what "head assembly" means. Saying "sticking out" sounds like a childish description, and the text has already specified "Sweeps" and "vehicle mode" immediately before the bracket. It's also not necessary to call the figures "Decepticons" again: there were no new character arrivals in the interim from the preceding sentence. [eyeroll]

  • "At the conclusion of the scene, we see Cyclonus and Scourge..."

~ You're wondering why I changed that sentence? Do not use the phrase "we see" — it's self-referential and too coloquial, better suited to a newspaper column or magazine editorial. Encyclopedia text should be more formal, not making reference to the writer/reader/audience — you're not going to find "we see" (or other personal pronouns) in Britannica.

  • "At the same time, Galvatron clearly possesses Megatron's memories, and implies that he killed Optimus Prime ("First, Prime. Then, Ultra Magnus. And now, you."). Also of note is the fact that Frank Welker, Megatron's voice actor, took over from Leonard Nimoy as Galvatron in the TV series."

~ This edit was explained earlier: First, notice that Galvatron's lingering memory has already been cited in the previous sentence of the paragraph. (I'll add your Optimus reference there, since you insist, but he only witessed Prime's injury, not the death itself.) Second, Galvatron does not (quote) "clearly" possess that information as his own personal experience, if evidenced by his distant personality beginning right from the start of season 3, where he's become so spacy and self-absorbed in his own mad little world that the Decepticons seriously wonder whether he's a stranger. (Significantly, Cyclonus and the other reborn characters don't suffer these same mental problems. And if it were as "clear" as you pretend, this entire debate would not exist.) The change of voice actor is really an irrelevant point because the same argument can be reversed: if what you're implying were actually the producer's intention (ie., claiming that they're attempting to reinforce character continuity by choice of actor), they could have just stuck with Welker all the way through the film and not bothered using Nimoy. The simple reality is that Nimoy was brought in for box office draw while Welker was the more affordable option for the ongoing TV series. (Likewise, you can bet that Don Johnson would not have carried on playing Lt.Falcon if Sunbow's G.I. Joe cartoon had continued after the movie.)

  • ("Well, they were the same guy.").

~ Can't you see that it's awkward to have two periods at the end here? That's why I got rid of the parentheses. You seem to be under the misimpression that I'm messing with your entries just for the hell of it rather than for improvement.

  • ...claiming to "know you too well, Galvatron" despite having had...

~ That statement makes no absolutely sense as it stands: a sentence cannot shift frame from third person to first person and then back again. And it's common practice in writing quotations to replace ambiguous pronouns with bracketed specifics (thereby indicating the author's edit and speaker's intent) to clarify the subject if a conversational quote is otherwise hopelessly out of context.

~ GALVATRON 04:05, 2 June 2006 (UTC)


Many of your points are vaild. Here are mine:

"Reformatted" is an incorrectly applied term that originated with Beast Machines, and has nothing to do with Galvatron's warriors.

There should be no emphasis on the "were" in Astrotrain's "Well, they were the same guy!".

It seems all too concidental that Megatron's voice actor took over as Galvatron for the series. It is a coincidence readers should be made aware of. We need to present facts (and occasional speculation), and let the readers form their own opinions.

"Head assembly" is unclear to casual readers. More detail is required for clarity.

Megatron was not tortured into accepting Unicron's offer. Unicron was about to consume him. The script makes that clear. It just so happens that the same "energy" effect is used in the Galvatron torture sequences later on.


Okay...
  • Yes, I figured that potential confusion over the Beast Machines "reformatting" was also your reason for inserting Unicron's name in the title, but you're interpretting it too widely from your own familiarity with all Transformers properties rather than the specific topic of this Wiki-page. Anyway, I changed the wording to "modified" in consideration of that fact.
  • The italics assigned to Astrotrain's "Well, they were the same guy..." come only from his inflection in that line's delivery (as with the trailing ellipsis dots), not in any way meant to stress an exclusively past-tense "were", nor to suggest that it is presently untrue, which you're apparently misconstruing was my emphasizing intent there. As I remember it, Astrotrain was offering this line up for consideration to whoever he was responding to in that scene, not simply pronouncing a statement of unchallenged fact. The implication from his intonation is that he's not at all surprised by Galvatron's behaviour, even while the other Decepticons in FFOD seem to think Megatron's mind was somehow corrupted by Unicron during the refabrication. (I always got the impression that Galvatron had perhaps been contaminated by Unicron's personality, hence the suddenly grandiose, regal attitude, and his own baffling references to "Megatron" as if that were some other person.) ...In any event, I don't have a problem if you want to remove those inflective italics, though it leaves the context misleadingly declarative.
  • The point about the common voice actor is fairly absurd: Frank Welker has literally voiced over a thousand cartoon characters, yet I'm sure no one would attempt to draw fictional connections between them from that tenuous real-world basis. By the same rationale, I don't expect anyone would argue (for instance) that "Cyclonus isn't Bombshell because they have different voice actors." ...Even when voiced by Welker, Galvatron's voice is not the same as Megatron's, although it easily could have been made so. Back when it aired in 1986, I simply took this vocal distinction as part of the deliberate marketing attempt to "sell" Galvatron as a character independent enough from Megatron that kids would dish out for the new toy. Consider that the movie could have killed Megatron off completely (if they really wanted to,) and then introduced Galvatron as an entirely new leader (perhaps arriving from some other planet, or baked from scratch by Unicron). But from a marketing perspective, that move would have undermined their interests by throwing away the fanbase's existing emotional investment in Megatron. So instead, he was given a faux 'death' to lend the movie some "must-see" gravitas and then simply rebranded in the new shell. ...Basically, I'm judging things from a production angle: short of examining the credits, viewers of the TV show (particularly kids) wouldn't be expected to know backstage facts about actors in order to infer supposed hidden meaning about the story. If they're doing they're job convincingly, the voice actors should ideally become invisible and their characters should exist as believable entities unto themselves within the self-contained story world, not demand the audience to provide external research about what's going on inside the sound booth. Off-stage info about actors (by definition) isn't meant to enter a story, except perhaps in Pixar CGI comedies where the script may dare at "breaking the fourth wall" by poking fun with parodying references to a participating actor's history (assuming they're famous stars in that case — eg., the cast of "ANTZ"). ...In short, don't conflate the character with the actor.
  • "Head assembly": Your original parenthetical statement was too long, disrupting the flow of the sentence and repeating details already leading into that item. I've made a slight alteration to your current wording. It might instead be made to read "(uniquely identifiable by his protruding head when transformed)", if you prefer.
  • "Tortured into accepting": I preserved that phrase from the previously existing synopsis in an attempt to be fair to that author, and because "tortured" is fairly attention-grabbing. I've changed it to read "Forced into accepting" since the grammar of your latest revision didn't make sense; if you still want, you might further alter it to some variation of, "Forced into accepting on penalty of death"...or "Forced into accepting or facing death", although I think it's more effective to tease with the shortest version than to blatantly spell things out. ...I would advise against using the word "reborn" there because that almost makes it sound like a change initiated by Megatron's own accord (ie., found the strength from within) whereas "remade" informs us that it's being imposed from outside, and the more glorifying term "reborn" is already applied below for Rodimus Christ. :p (Also, it's best to avoid reusing conspicuous words too often within a single article.) ...Just to clarify, in my earlier edit, I removed your other descriptive additions for the ultimatum scene because they were throwing the synopsis out of balance by disproportionately devoting too many sentences to that single event.
  • Although I didn't change it, I don't especially care for the "in 2005" added to the top of the page. It seems a patronizing repetition since the year is already plainly stated in the synopsis... and in the movie... and readers could connect the dots by doing their own basic math. But I suppose an argument can be made to leave it there for the sake of hypothetical readers who haven't seen the film AND might choose not to read beyond the spoiler warning.
  • For your sentence regarding the Insections, I'd recommend changing it to read The Insecticons are also seen in varying states of health at different points (...etc.), but I'll leave it to your own discretion.

...Well, I don't want you to think I'm picking on you with this long rant, I just wanted you to know that none of my edits were arbitrary.

~ GALVATRON 06:53, 3 June 2006 (UTC)


Too many terms from that later series (such as "spark" and "reformatted" have retroactively worked their way into the original series).

In the episode, Astrotrain does not place emphasis on "were".

Your revised description of Scourge's "head aseembly" is fine. A casual reader just won't know what "head assembly" refers to.

"Forced into accepting" works well. Orginaklly, Unicron's "torture" and "consuming" effects were supposed to be different. He would have used a mist that dissolved objects to consume his prey, and Galvatron would quake and scream uncontrollably when tortured. In the final film, the reddish energy-effect was used for both.

Thank you for your consideration.


Alright, I'll take your word for it about the wrongly italicized "were" — I may have some other Decepticon's drawling voice incorrectly stuck in my memory there, haven't watched it in a while. I've added your comment about Galvatron's voice change as the third point in the NOTES section; my argument was that where you had originally inserted this information in the "Decepticon controversies" section (and labelling it "of note" or a "suspicious coincidence"), it was introducing bias by implying some kind of underlying story agenda in the voice casting rather than that the role was simply assigned based on acting merit. ...Someone might also add the following as the first sentence of the "Commerical releases" section, which I'm refraining from adding myself since I don't know the company name: The film was first made available on VHS in (1987?) by [insert name of video company here], and was offered by mail-in coupon as a promotional tie-in with the purchase of certain toys. ~ GALVATRON 20:59, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Given that Shrapnel later joins in the attack on Ultra magnus and company on Junkion, I think it's safe to assume that the Shrapnel that was converted by Unicron was a clone.

[edit] Region 4/AustralianMadman Entertainment DVD release

Does anyone know of what transfer it used, (horrible and dark btw) It can probably be mentioned in the commercial release section, it's noteable for having a custon dreamwave cover, the touch music video , movie trailer ( the only decent footage of the movie in the entire dvd) and many tv spots for the toys and the promo reel containing the unused footage.

[edit] new transformers movie?

in this page http://imdb.com/title/tt0092106/ there is a new movie (i thinck) by flo 2/6/5 new link ops :) Transformers_(2007_film)

basically, i might be wrong, but i remember watching the film at the cinema with my mum,im sure there was some sort of inconsitency because in all the episodes prior to the movie the autobots didnt eat energon cubes it was in fact the decepticons,it may seem sad but this confused me. could some please verify this,


Their the same race, but we only ever see the cons using the cubes. However, it is well known that the autobots use the same power source

[edit] Theme Song mispronunciation

I would like to submit that I don't think "Unicron" is mispronounced in the theme song. I think that due to the singers having accents it is easy to hear both "Unicron" and "Unicorn".

I don't think it's either one. It sounds more like "when there's evil, you can call... Transformers! More than meets the Eye!" DeathWeed 05:40, 21 September 2006 (UTC)


Unicron is only mentioned in the line "When your caught within the grip of the evil Unicron"

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