Talk:The Sisters of Mercy

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[edit] 24 March 2006 Reversion (Comment on 2006 tour smoke/sound quality)

I reverted a change today, on account of the new comment relating anecdotes about fans complaining in 2006 because of sound quality and the amount of smoke (!) are not NPOV. (There is evidence of fans being incredibly happy with the sound and amount of smoke at the 2006 N. American dates, too). Apologies for not explaining in the revision comment, but I misfired on the save button. Cadda 21:18, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

This was my edit you reverted, and the comment is factual. It did NOT state that all fans were unhappy with the smoke and sound quality, only that some are, and I have evidence to back up this assertion. I have a number of web references to back up the edit, and I will post them tonight. -GClose
No need to post your web references, because that's not what I'm arguing about (I accept what you say is factual). I reverted it because I don't think that the comment merits inclusion in the article, because:
  1. For a truly NPOV discussion on the point, one would need to indicate that there are both fans that are happy with the 2006 shows (see the reviews of Toronto, for example), as well as those who are not. What good can come of such a wishy-washy and obvious remark?
  2. In two months' time (say), will unbalanced commentary about what some fans thought of the 2006 tour really belong in an encyclopædia article? Consider the absence of commentary this way about any other tour.
I think if you're insisting on including commentary on the level of smoke, then maybe a section or paragraph on just the live act ought to be created, and remarks about that should include commentary on their light show and the unusual amount of fog they habitually deploy. The band have used immense amounts of fog/smoke since the very early 80s — intentionally, as one can read in their CD liner notes — and that's something distinctive about them and does merit inclusion in the article (if it isn't already there). Some people like it, some people don't, and that's not very interesting. To me, a good description of the live show is more important to include than unbalanced, isolated remarks on what some audience members think about their live act.Cadda 03:21, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
Well, I am not all that sold on the "SOM uses lots of fog, get used to it" argument, as the show at the Warfield last night was just completely ridiculous. I've seen SOM about 4 years ago here in San Francisco, and it was nothing like this. I sat through 4 songs and didn't even get so much as a glimpse of Andrew. We asked for, and received, our money back from the Warfield, due to the lack of any kind of a show. Nothing but swirling fog. I do accept that this is perhaps too detailed and too much of an opinion to include in an encyclopædia article, however.
FWIW, I am sorry that you didn't enjoy the show in SFO. My "too much fog" story: when I saw them in Anaheim in 1999, the fog set off the fire alarm and the house lights came up automatically in the middle of the set. It was already surreal—it was at a dinner theatre, where the audience was forced to have a sit-down supper with each other before the show—but when the fire alarm went off and the lights came up in the middle of a song, the band stops and Eldo says "this place is getting weirder." Anyway I'm sorry if I broke protocol by reverting your edit; I'm new at this, so no hard feelings. I'll leave you with a quote from the Some Girls Wander By Mistake (1992) liner notes: "I like to think it was the songs that made this band. I know it wasn't. We used a lot of smoke, very few lights, stepped right back and just made a space where you could lose yourself (but more probably find yourself) in a tide of colour and noise. It sounds simple, but no-one that really wanted to be a rock 'n' roll star could have done it. [...] The records were never supposed to reflect that experience—it's a different medium, and one we're still learning. Maybe some of it comes through." Cadda 05:41, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
I've been watching the Sisters (in their many incarnations) since the early 80s and their gigs have hardly changed - Darkness, lots of smoke and great atmosphere.

[edit] Patricia Morrison

"Patricia Morrison, perhaps pretending to play bass (1985-1989) " pretending to play bass??!

  • Yes, Eldritch has frequently said she did nothing in the studio, and only pretended to play for the videos. There is a court case pending. I don't know what the truth is. Folkor 19:38, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
  • I would be quite surprised if this were true. Patricia came to prominence playing Bass in The Gun Club, and The Bags. She is the current bassist of The Damned as well.--FACT50 21:28, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Not to mention which, Patricia Morrison was credited on The Sisterhood Album "The Gift" before the rights to the "Sisters of Mercy" name reverted to A. Eldritch and he asked her to continue working with him in the Sisters of Mercy. It seems pretty unlikely that she played with Eldritch - was in fact sought out by him - on the Sisterhood album, then acted as merely a soundboard or pretty face and voice on the next two Sisters of Mercy albums as he asserts. Eldritch comes off sounding like a spoiled brat who doesn't want to share credit (certainly not doing him any favors in the article), though it probably has more to do with his frequently mentioned (by other musicians) unwillingness to share profits with bandmates. (This is, of course, industry gossip and doesn't belong in a Wikipedia article unless corroborated first hand. Thus my mentioning it on the Discussion page.)

This reference to "pretending to play bass" should be struck from the article for two reasons - first, suggesting that a bassist of more than a decade of experience in several bands (at the time) was "pretending" to play in the videos and on the album is borderline libelous to her reputation, and second, until the court case is decided and the facts are known (Folkor admits - "I don't know what the truth is"), it is irresponsible to further and promote industry gossip in a Wikipedia article without carefully presenting both sides, which this article patently does not do. To not do so violates Wikipedia's goal of "Neutral POV". If you don't know the truth, state the existence of a controversy, cover the basics, and leave out any conclusions until the court case is decided and the facts are revealed. Strike71 22:35, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gothic rock?

The Sisters of Mercy is one of the most influential gothic rock bands, -- does not sound NPOV, Wikipedia:Avoid peacock terms David.Monniaux 11:13, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)

How does this sound: The Sisters of Mercy are a gothic rock band who, despite the existence of only three proper studio albums, were largely responsible for changing the sound of early goth rock, bringing in elements of both dance and metal that helped the musical genre widen its appeal. It is worth noting that the band does not consider itself to be "goth". Could even add in something about them spawning countless imitators, perhaps? --Stormie 11:21, Apr 5, 2004 (UTC)
In the spirit of 'show, rather than claim' (which is what Wikipedia:Avoid peacock terms is all about), we should definitely mention the imitators (some by name, even). Make the change! —Morven 16:56, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)


every Gothic Rock band in the 80s denied being Goth - don't alienate yourself anf restrict sales to one group of people. I remember in the 80s reading Goth groups saying 'there's no such thing as Goth' every week. Of course the Sisters of Mercy were a gothic band - in fact, for many a time, they were THE gothic band.


[edit] Heavy metal?

Category:Heavy metal musical groups? Can they really be described as metal? — Lady Lysine Ikinsile 22:07, Jun 18, 2004 (UTC)

I was sorta wondering about that one - David Gerard 00:06, 19 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Having thought about it, this really makes no sense to me. I've removed the category for now—if anyone puts it back, please explain why! — Lady Lysine Ikinsile 09:53, 2004 Jun 19 (UTC)
There might be some argument as to genre, but metal is not one of the contenders, IMO. —Morven 11:09, Jun 19, 2004 (UTC)
Erm. As a bunch of sk*nky g*ths, we find the idea ridiculous. But whoever put it in may find it less so. Wonder if User:Asn is on hand ... - David Gerard 12:48, 19 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Heavy metal? I'm not a hardcore goth but I like Sisters, but there's no way I'd call them heavy metal either. New Wave maybe, Alternative maybe (depends on whether "alternative"). If Sisters is heavy metal, then so are U2 and The Cure. -- Dave Farquhar 16:00, 19 Jun 2004 (UTC)
I'm wondering what the metal fans would consider them - David Gerard 19:30, 20 Jun 2004 (UTC)
I've always heard of the Sisters of Mercy as the prototypical New Wave band. Maybe in Belgium New Wave somehow has a different meaning compared to the rest of the world, as the genre isn't even mentioned in the article. Wouter Lievens 21:22, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
I wouldn't call the band New Wave or Heavy Metal. Vision Thing was a bit metal-ish, but not very. They were very rock-ish, with a good dose of goth rock. I guess maybe "Temple of Love" was a bit New Wave. Hmmm. Folkor 16:20, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
Ben Christo is metal as fuck, and anyone who saw their latest tour would have to agree. Rock on! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.1.195.105 (talk • contribs) on 22:41, 6 October 2006.
But I don't that is enough to warrant inclusion of the group in that category. -- Beardo 09:24, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A few niggles in vocabulary used

The use of "abused drums" and "subjected audiences to Gimme Gimme Gimme" tends to lead away from the concept of NPOV, it might be little but I thought I'd point it out.

I've fixed some (including the two above), but there are still many problems with the article. violet/riga (t) 14:53, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Influences

I've added the Marionettes and Rosetta Stone as bands influenced by tSoM. Fields of the Nephilim also sprint to mind of couse but I have not added them as I am not aware of any comments by any member of the the Nephilim admitting such influence (hence such influence is afaik just my POV). -- JamesYoungman (t) 06:22, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)

I'm going to change it to "second wave of Gothic rock"... the Rolling Stones article isn't littered with numerous bands who later tried to copy them for example. - Deathrocker 22:45, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Disambiguation

Problem: both Marionettes and Rosetta Stone point to things other than the band. Are disambiguation pages required? I'm not experienced enough as a contributor to try making one. -- JamesYoungman (t) 06:22, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Also Adam Pearson points to another individual (Adam Pearson is the chairman of Hull City A.F.C.).

[edit] Bootlegs

Most artist pages don't mention bootlegs, because there are usually a lot. TSOM are no exception, although I do realize that SBWBM is one of the most widespread. Like the The Smashing Pumpkins page, listing the most common ones is fine. Should we set up a list somewhat like that? Folkor 06:45, 16 February 2006 (UTC)


[edit] David Bowie

Shall we mention how much the Sisters of Mercy sound like David Bowie of that era and before? (That's the polite way of saying I'd dare any non-fanatic to tell them apart. Just play This Corrosion for your friends...) --Mrcolj 14:44, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Its subjective and irrelavent.Cannibaltom 19:14, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
Influences and similarities are extremely relevant, and yes, they are subjective, unless the band has mentioned it at some point. It just seems a little like an article on Aerosmith that doesn't mention the Rolling Stones, or an article on Maroon 5 that doesn't mention both Jamiroquai and Stevie Wonder. Just mooting for science. --Mrcolj 23:11, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
If you've got some good external sources to back it up then add it. violet/riga (t) 23:14, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
Did Bowie ever work with Jim Steinman ? I don't hear much connection between Bowie and the Sisters myself. -- Beardo 09:25, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
  • I don't hear ANY similarities with Bowie and The Sisters either? --FACT50 21:30, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
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