Talk:The Secret Policeman's Balls

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Source moved from article: "Some of the information used here is derived from the DVD collection's booklet."

[edit] Name

Firstly, does anyone know where the name of the shows comes from? I'm sure it would be an interesting addition to the article.

Also, the DVD and other sources refer to the events as The Secret Policeman's Ball, not Balls: the current article title might be inaccurate. As it stands, the title seems to refer to a policeman's balls, as opposed to a ball.

--anskas 03:22, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

I assume that the title of this article comes from the fact that there were more than one Amnesty International concert with "The Secret Policeman's Ball" within the title — and, because this article deals with all of the Amnesty concerts, instead of a single concert.

Therefore, the article page is probably called "The Secret Policeman's Balls" to indicate "plural" for more than one concert, and to avoid confusion with people thinking that the article was dealing only with the single "The Secret Policeman's Ball" concert. The Amnesty concerts include the following:

"Pleasure at Her Majesty's" — also known as "A Poke in the Eye (With a Sharp Stick") (1976)

"Mermaid Frolics" (1977)

"The Secret Policeman's Ball" (1979)

"The Secret Policeman's Other Ball" (1981)

"The Secret Policeman's Third Ball" (1987)

"The Secret Policeman's Biggest Ball" (1989)

Hope this helps.

Incidentally, all of the above listed concerts are on DVD in "The Secret Policeman's Ball" boxed set.

The concerts are very enjoyable — and every DVD sold helps Amnesty International. Figaro 03:46, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Got some more info on this. I'm working on a revision of the article with a lot more info I've discovered in the liner notes of some record and CD releases of material from the shows. Plus books and press interviews. Including the origin of the title etc etc. Hope to have it up very soon. Davidpatrick 06:08, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

The Title should be changed, it sounds like a gay adult film. --Yancyfry jr 20:19, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

What about something like The Amnesty Comedy Concerts?

The article would need to be 'moved' to retain the full editing history of the article, as well as the discussion (talk) page and its full editing history.

If this is agreeable, I could 'move' the page - and then change all of the links (on other article pages) which have links which lead to this article, so that the links would be accurate (if the article was 'moved', the present title of "The Secret Policeman's Balls" would automatically redirect to the new title). Figaro 02:44, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

This requires some thought before deciding on a change. First of all - the "Secret Policeman's" title is extremely well known. Secondly the benefit shows (not concerts) are much much more than comedy shows (though that's how they started out). They became as iconic for the music as for comedy. Thirdly their influence on others who followed the tradition (eg Bono, Sting, Bob Geldof) is always attributed to some mention of the "Secret Policeman's Ball" title.

In favor of keeping the current article title: The exact wording in the current article title has been used with some humor to describe the series. eg it showed up spoken by Don Pardo in the 1982 US film. And it reflects the Python humor.

If a consensus develops to change the article title (and speaking for myself I'm open to the idea) my 2 cents is that if we do so - it has to be for the right name.

I would consider some of these:

• The Secret Policeman's Ball benefits
• The Secret Policeman's Ball benefit shows
• The Secret Policeman's Ball series
• The Secret Policeman's Ball shows

Note that there are already two pages (of necessity) called "The Secret Policeman's Ball". One for the original 1979 show. The Secret Policeman's Ball (1979) And the other for the new show coming in October The Secret Policeman's Ball (2006) which has been given the identical title.

Other thoughts?

Davidpatrick 03:23, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

And, for my 2 cents worth I think, if a title change is decided upon for the article, that either your second title suggestion of
"The Secret Policeman's Ball benefit shows", or your fourth title suggestion of "The Secret Policeman's Ball shows", would be an excellent choice to be adopted for the new title. Figaro 09:33, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alternative titles

Been doing some more research - and some more thinking about it.

BTW - the article was called just "The Secret Policeman's Ball" till approx. July 2005 - when it was realized that that title wasn't broad enough to cover all the various events over the years. And the title changed to "Balls"

As to the prospective alternate titles I've suggested:

I agree that #1 wouldn't work too well. "benefits" is an ambiguous word when used on its own.
And #3 could be confusing. Though it has become a series of shows/events. "Series" often connotes a TV series. so without a qualifying word it probably doesn't work.
I think #4 is ok - but it doesn't cover the breadth of what the events became. ie very successful movies, TV specials & albums etc. Comparatively few people attended the actual shows in the theatres. Very large numbers of people have seen the movies, TV shows and heard the albums. So I think "shows" doesn't cover it sufficiently.
I think that #2 does have some merits. The word "benefits" is in a context. There is still the matter that the word "shows" sound more ordinary than one senses these events were.

I've been looking in a lot of resources and I've discovered that the original events were not described as "shows" at all. They were always described as being a "gala". ie grand festive occasions - that were very special and not like ordinary shows at all.

I'm mindful that we don't want the title to be too many words - but on the other hand - the first four words are essential.

So how about choosing from among these:

• The Secret Policeman's Ball benefit shows
• The Secret Policeman's Ball shows
• The Secret Policeman's Ball galas
• The Secret Policeman's Ball benefit galas
• The Secret Policeman's Ball benefit series

Davidpatrick 05:40, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Out of the above selection of titles, I like the title "The Secret Policeman's Ball benefit shows" best.

With regard to the other suggested titles:

Because of its similarity, the word 'gala' makes me think of the Australian slang term 'galah' (please see the article about our Australian bird, the Galah, regarding this term).

The word 'series' reminds me more of a television series than a 'sequence' of shows, and seems to dim the significance of its meaning and the benefits they had for Amnesty.

Figaro 22:35, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

What about choosing from one of the following titles:

• The Secret Policeman's Ball Amnesty benefit shows
• The Secret Policeman's Ball - Amnesty benefit shows

Figaro 21:46, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

First of all - I appreciate you getting back on this. It is truly difficult.

The trouble with those two suggestions is that they take the number of words in the article title to seven. Which I think is just too long. My longest suggestions were six words - and I was thinking THOSE were too long. I have toyed with dispensing with the word "THE" - but it's an integral part of that title. The other problem is that while the shows are indeed benefits for Amnesty and some people know that - not everyone does - nor would look them up under such a cumbersome title. Especially bearing in mind that the original shows were turned into successful movies and record albums that reached a lot of people internationally who may not have been as aware of the charity element of the original shows as the UK audience. So while I appreciate the thought - I don't think they solve the problem.

I'm still concerned that the word "shows" (or even "galas") relate just to the original stage events and don't encompass the breadth of what the "SPB" phenomenon has become. Between TV, film, albums, books etc etc - that is how most people have experienced "SPB". I thought about calling the article "The Secret Policeman's Ball fundraisers" but closer examination indicates that in several cases they were as much about raising consciousness as raising funds.

So at present I am in favor of keeping the current article title. I disagree with the person who thought that the title sounded like a "gay adult title"! The pun nature of the title has been in the public consciousness for 30 years now... Davidpatrick 22:52, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Thank you Davidpatrick for replying to my comments. I appreciate it. And, like you, I think that the current title is best and should be retained. Figaro 10:52, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Haha! My original comment was intended as a lighthearted and sarcastic remark, and I am amazed at the responses. I guess everyone's interest is a testament to the success of the shows/galas/benefit shows/concerts/et al. :-). There are some very interesting suggestions, but I agree with Davidpatrick's argument, that basically none of the proposed titles truly encompass the phenomenon that is SPB(s). Also, I'm sure John Cleese and Peter Cook and the like would vote to maintain this amusing title!!! —anskas 23:54, 25 October 2006 (UTC)