Talk:The Order (group)

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This article is part of WikiProject Fascism, an attempt to better organize and unify articles relating to the fascist ideology, its impact on history and present-day organisations closely linked to both of these (ideology and history). See project page, and discussion. This article may be listed on an index of fascist movements or people. Such listing may be controversial; feel free to contribute to discussions there. The presence of this Talk page-only template only implies that the subject is of interest to the associated WikiProject.

Correcting factual errors throughout.Keltic 02:41, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

The Order WAS NOT part of Aryan Nations. That is totally false. --24.14.60.110

Frazier Glenn Miller is thought of as a rat by a large segment of the white supremacist community for his role in testifying against the Order.

is this line really neccesary? --Threatis 03:54, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Based on Frazier Glenn Miller, he ought to at least be mentioned, altho probably not in that fashion. But I don't think it's non-NPOV (as the person who removed it said), if there was some specific source about him being viewed as a rat. --Mairi 06:21, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

I would consider using the term "rat" as NPOV --Threatis 02:36, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

Sorry that my comment wasn't clear; I agree that the quoted sentence isn't NPOV. But if we can find and attribute it to a specific source (and it ought to be possible, if it's the view of many people as claimed), I think it could be included NPOVly. --Mairi 01:32, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

I disagree with any move to merge the Robert J. Matthews article with that of The Order. Bob Matthews was a minor historical figure of sufficient significance to warrant his own article. The Order, the group he led, was a separate entity, and ought to have a separate article. Keeping the two articles separate is equivalent to what is ordinarily done with regard to more fashionable subject matter; unpopular topics should not be held to a higher standard. KevinOKeeffe 10:38, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Keep the two articles separate.67.72.98.45 22:35, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 Rollback 2 Ideology 3 Merge 4 Update

[edit] Rollback

I've rolled back some long and rhetorical additions over the last few days. If there's a significant theoretical contribution by Mathews to the white supremacist ideology, that should probably be added at Robert Jay Mathews. If there's an identifying ideology that sets The Order apart from the mainstream of white supremacy, that should be put here. Otherwise, theoretical discussions should probably stay at white supremacy. --ESP 14:31, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

This page is written as an advertisement for white supremacy and neofascism. The Order was white supremacist and antisemitic terrorist group, not a philosophical society that happened to have run-ins with law enforcement.--Cberlet 14:40, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ideology

Where did this "That the presence, history, and manifestations representing a 'unified European' heritage were being reduced either by design or happen-chance to such an extent, that no honorable man or woman could, or would, remain silent." come from? I can't find it in Flynn and Gerhadt, who wrote the definitive work on them. It should either have a reference or be replaced by something a little more comprehensible. DonSiano 21:39, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Flynn and Gerhardt were amatures. They did not 'interview' all the defendants, nor did they have 'real' access to the mind set of RJM or his comrads; they sat in court, read some documents...AND THAT WAS IT! If you really have a scientific background, then you should be the first to stress that it would be imperical study, a Western concept, by going to the 'source(s). This, these men, did not. The major portion of the 'edit job' you did, is in contravention of a Bruder himself; a man who lived, fought, and was sent to prison for these same actions and beliefs. Your paltry and feeble sense of shock is understandable; perhaps you know your way around here a little better than some of us, but as for source, I refrained from particulars, since the freedom of this man might/would be put back into question.

Further note: Flynn and Gerhardt, like all persons who favor a quick buck, 'threw' this book together. All in all, it is roughly 15% of the story, but is about 85% accurate in the telling (this from the Bruder in question)

I choose not to keep wasting time by constantly readdressing the issues pertained here but, please, keep your erudite, soft chested, comments out of this discussion, as your lack of knowledge, as that of most of the others, is troubling.

To the other 'editors': Many of you have attempted to discuss, and post, an informative article regarding this group (Bruder Schweigen) as well as Robert J. Mathews; you have the thanks of all who wish to 'know' what the 'truth' of the matter is; those of you who seek to ever 'contravene' what you do not understand or like, thereby utilizing this forum to attack, defame, and otherwise print 'lies' or twisted perversity is seen by those who know, as worse than a crime against those who sacrificed everything for their people. --Keltic 09:11, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Even fascist white supremacist revolutionaries can edit here on Wikipedia, but still have to cite to published sources, rather than organically channeling WOTAN text through the gene pool.--Cberlet 15:32, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

I have attempted to re-write this page with a more neutral point of view.--Apeloverage 13:54, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

By the way, the entry on Mathews is also basically Nazi propaganda. --Apeloverage 04:11, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge

No they're completely different subjects. One is a person, the other an organization.

[edit] Update

The website that advocates freeing the order should be put on the links section or as a reference. Many WN's veiw the order as political prisoners, they tried a 2nd one according to the ADL and some more skinheads marched on a federal building demanding they be freed.