Talk:The Jitsu Foundation
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Firstly, no individual clubs should be advertised on wiki. Only national associations. This is to prevent wiki (an encyclopedia) from being used as an advertising tool.
(TJF is an association, not a school. This has been made clearer in the intro)
There are alot of POV issues on this page. Firstly the page asserts that it is a modern school, despite being a mixture of Kito Ryu and Sorinji Ryu. Then, it asserts that its Dojo's adopt a more relaxed training environment. This is wrong, as I have been to many Jitsu Foundation clubs, and also other UK clubs from other systems. There environment in training is similar to many UK schools. The page on the Jitsu Foundation should be factual and not an attempt to advertise by claiming inaccurately to be laid back and modern.
(I'm not sure that the page is particularly biased but maybe it needs to be edited by someone who has tried TJF Jitsu but it is not their main art)
Also this page needs to be cleaned up. Its full of spelling and grammer mistakes. Some of it had to be changed just to make sense.
(Agreed - I have cleared some of these up but there is probably more to do)
There is not much point in extolling the values of one school, as the main Jujutsu webpage already explains those. Its just a waste of time. Also there is very little history of the TJF presented here. That would have been more appropriate. When writing for an international website, don't state place names without first stating the country of origen. That was daft.
(A fuller history has now been added)
Someone needs to go over this page with a fine tooth comb and check it for other POV disputes, total irrelevences, and spelling/grammer.
(Some improvements have been made but more is necessary)
[edit] History
I've some vague memories of TJF history but I can't substantiate any of these - maybe someone else can fill in some blanks and write-up? Rup 23:40, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
I believe all this information has been added to the main page now
User: Anon 11:25, 31 August 2006
- Great, thanks! That's very thorough! Rup 10:23, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Corrections
I added the following note last night before I spotted this discussion section of Wikipedia:
Note: Although this version of the history of the Jitsu Foundation is in common use, it is not accurate. Peter's surname was Farrar (not Farrah), and when I spoke to Shihan Matthew Komp he was very clear that there was no link to Shorinji Kempo. Brian Graham used to tell the story of Matt Komp visiting Japan and on being asked to demonstrate his style it was identified as Shorinji Kempo. However, Matt Komp was adamant that they had likened his style to Shorinji Kempo, but that he had never practiced Shorinji Kempo, nor had any of his instructors (Komp's instruction took place in Germany prior to the establishment of Shorinji Kempo by Doshin So in Japan). The reason this link is perpetuated is perhaps that it suited Brian Graham. His particular style did closely match that of Shorinji Kempo, and it gave him a reason to introduce the black robes of Shorinji Kempo as a mark of teaching status in the NSJJA (National Samurai Jiu Jitsu Association). Komp was not a student of Myura, but in fact was taught judo and jiu jitsu by his instructors in Cologne, Hassermayer, and Wolfe who had trained in Japan prior to the Second World War. Komp emigrated to Australia in the 1950s and established a club in Melbourne. Myura was a visitor to the club on occasions. (JSJ)
It would be better to update the text that is already there, but I didn't want to change someone else's text. However, I do think that the errors in the text need to be updated. I trained for many years with Peter Farrar, and I have attempted on several occasions to correct the spelling of his name on many Jitsu Foundation websites. The correct spelling should be easy to verify if you go to a reliable source. I see that the Edinburgh 'jitsu club has the correct spelling. More notably the Jitsu Canada page has the correct spelling (www.jitsucanada.com/style/history.html) and the founder of Jitsu Canada, Andy Dobie, used to be in charge of the UK office when Peter Farrar was still directing the organisation, and so was very used to receiving correspondence, etc. for Peter. I'm not citing these as reliable sources per se, although they are correct in this detail. However, there is official documentation out there if someone wants to take the time to verify the spelling.
I verified the detail of the history as far as possible with Matthew Komp on the few occasions that he visited the UK. He was very clear on the point that he had not trained in Shorinji Kempo, and neither had Brian Graham. Brian was extremely good at acquiring a technique if he thought it effective. There are techniques in the Jitsu Foundation syllabus that are very similar, to some of the Shorinji Kempo juho techniques, but these may just as easily be due to common roots in aikijitsu styles.
I firmly believe that the Komp style of jiu jitsu has its roots in Kodokan Jiu Jitsu (Judo) as it was taught around the beginning of the 20th century. If you can get hold of a copy of 'Judo: Self-taught in pictures' (1952) by Hubert Klinger-Klingerstorff you will see a series of techniques straight out of the original NSJJA/Jitsu Foundation syllabus. The contents page looks nothing like a modern judo book. This is honto judo. Chapter 3 - Breaking a Wrist-Hold, 4 - Breaking a strangle-hold, 5 - Police grips, 6 - Defence against a knife thrust... and so on. The techniques are remarkable, because the so closely follow the main syllabus of the NSJJA, and include arm-locks and wrist-locks. Klinger-Klingerstorff was apparently 2nd Dan and 'Instructor of Judo at the University of Vienna'. There's a similar series of techniques in Self-defence by Judo (1959) M. G. Harvey, MC, and in Jiu Jitsu Complete (1958) by Kiyose Nakae. In contrast, the Juho section of 'What is Shorinji Kempo' 1970 by Doshin So contains a few techniques which would be familiar to students of Komp/Graham/Farrar, but the way that these are performed is wholely different in 'feel'. Those few techniques also appear in the books I've cited from the 1950s, but the 'feel' of the technique in those is far more familiar.
Shihan Komp has said that Akira Miura (or Riukia Myura) did visit his Melbourne dojo on a few occasions. Miura taught a number of judo seminars in Australia, and was supposedly involved in judo training for the Tokyo Police. It is also possible that he trained in Shorinji Kempo, but I have not been able to verify this.
My conclusion is that there is no lineage between Shorinji Kempo and Komp's Jiu Jitsu, or that of the NSJJA/Jitsu Foundation. Yes, it is possible that Brian Graham may have had some exposure to Shorinji Kempo in the UK, and/or that Miura taught some Shorinji Kempo techniques as well as Judo. However, such brief exposure is not enough to justify this as part of the lineage of the style.
Jsj 00:14, 9 November 2006 (UTC) Julian Straker-Jones
DeejSempai 15:56, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
- It's probably worth me mentioning that Komp corroborates what JSJ explains above in the radio interview I've linked to at the bottom. However, as JSJ was hesitant to edit the words of others, so have I been. Perhaps if JSJ revists he'd like to add it as a reference? For those too impatient to listen to the whole interview, he explains that he was asked to perform a demonstration in Japan, at which point the locals identified it as Shorinji Kempo, although Komp seems more bemused by this, rather than adopting it as truth.
[edit] Kyu colours
"TJF has adopted the modern Western practice of a kyu (coloured belt) grade system"
Is this really true or is it a myth? The coloured belts orginate in Japan, although some more traditional martial arts use white belts the colours originated there.
It definitely needs a reliable source.
