Talk:The Jews of Islam
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[edit] "Examples of Jewish life in the Islamic world" section
This section has a particular focus on Iran. This is not the place to go enter this details. The situation in Iran was worst than elsewhere. This section should be moved to persian jews article. --Aminz 04:24, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
- It was removed. --Aminz 01:38, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
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- This is not an article on the topic "The Jews of Islam" , it is about the book "The Jews of Islam" by Bernard Lewis and the book deals extensively with the treatment and experiences of the Jews in the Middle East and particularly in Iran , where there was a fair amount of primary source research material available to Bernad Lewis. Thus I have restored the content.--CltFn 03:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
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- Lewis says lots of things there on how Jews were treated in different places in different times. And there is much more to what Lewis says. One should not take a particular place (Iran) and time since that would be unneutral. Summerizing the book into what a Jewish traveler J. J. Benjamin, who traveled in Iran at mid-century said is unfair. Have you read the book? --Aminz 03:09, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
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- But despite what you may feel, that in fact is the title of the book, and you can't impose your POV on the author. --Brat32 03:15, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
- And instead of deleting sections, you ought to develop the article with more material from the book that you have researched. And yes I have read the book and I own it--CltFn 03:16, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
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We have the Dhimmi article that is very much based on this book actually. This article is about the book itself. The book doesn't have its focus on Iran for sure. I don't see how that quote is a representative of what the book says. --Aminz 03:19, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
This article is about the book itself. That quote section is enough I think. --Aminz 03:21, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
- As I said above , then add more material , no one is stopping you from doing so , this is what we do in Wikipedia , we develop articles into fully fledged comprehensive encyclopedic articles.--CltFn 03:23, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
Please provide page number for the content of the section in the first place. --Aminz 03:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
- done --CltFn 04:00, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
Thanks. CltFn, don't you think these material should go to the Persian Jews article? Lewis talk about different times and different places. These details are good for those articles. You can include the name of those articles in the "See Also" section. --Aminz 04:16, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
- You could certainly also add this material to the Persian Jews article, go for it. I will take a look at it when I have some time , as I am busy on all kinds of projects at the moment.--CltFn 04:25, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
CltFn, the title of the section is "Examples of Jewish life in the Islamic world" and you have found one of the worst possible cases in time and place and have putted there in the article. Have you read page 6-7 of the very same book. Comparing one's worst with another's best is misleading and is what polemics do. I am going to take that out. This article is about the book itself and not about its content in this detail. A large part of the article is dedicated to a particular POV. And this is what that traveller said. Please read those pages again. Lewis doesn't say this is the summary of "Jewish life in the Islamic world" or even in Iran. --Aminz 04:34, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
- Well you are free to balance it by adding whatever material you have on the book. Blanking out sections because you feel it presents too narrow a perspective is not the way to go, what needs to be done in such a case would be to broaden the article with more material. SO roll up your sleeves , read the book in detail and develop the article. This article is only in its early stages and a lot more will be added in due time to this topic.--CltFn 05:00, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
I am going to ask an admin to join us here. We have other articles for further details. --Aminz 05:04, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Wikipedia is a tertiary source
Aminz asked me to look at this page and give an opinion. Briefly, on Wikipedia secondary sources are preferred to primary sources. If we were writing about Jewish life in Muslim countries, this book would be an important secondary source. In an article about the book, the book itself is a primary source. The sources for this page should mostly be reviews of and reports about the book. This article should summarize what reliable sources have written about the book. It should not be a recapitulation of selected sections. We should not selectively mine quotes from the book. The article should not consist almost entirely of quotes from the book. If there are not enough secondary sources to let us write an article, then this should not be a stand-alone article, but Lewis is a prominent author. I'm sure there are book reviews in the Times and elsewhere, both favorable and unfavorable. There may be academic work online, like lecture notes or commentary, discussing Lewis' work, or a transcript of his interview on CSPAN's Booknotes program. Those would be solid sources for this article.
In no circumstances should this page become a POV fork of Dhimmi, or Persian Jews, or anything else. See Wikipedia:Reliable sources Wikipedia:No original research. Tom Harrison Talk 13:07, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Huge Persian Jews Section
There is no need to quote such a huge section of the book. This is not wikibooks after all. BhaiSaab talk 03:06, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
- I disagree , there is a need , the need to add material to this article. It is informative and encyclopedic and makes this article interesting. What are your motives for continually whitewashing articles?--CltFn 03:51, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
