Talk:The Diamond Age

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Contents 1 Stephenson sympathetic to Confucianism? 2 Themes 3 Mind death 4 Summary 5 Miss Matheson 6 The Book 7 Bicameral mind? 8 Attempts at restructuring 9 Characters 10 Article structure

[edit] Stephenson sympathetic to Confucianism?

My impression is that Stephenson was extremely sympathetic to Confucianism throughout this book, that he seems to agree with the view of the Confucian character Dr. X that the Chinese culture will be able to manage the technology successfully whereas the Westerners will only fall into conflict with it. And, Dr. X seems to regret that the girls have turned into active soldiers, rather than nice obedient housewives, but that doesn't seem to be a complaint that the girls are *too* obedient to Nell. --unsigned (03:54, 8 September 2003 142.177.81.108)

I don't believe that you can infer anything at all of Stephenson's views from his fiction. --DudeGalea 16:55, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Themes

I'm not sure where it would fit in, or if it would at all, but here are some important themes that might be incorporated into the article, along with textual contexts:

• Privacy vs. security

• “In an era when everything can be surveiled, all we have left is politeness.”
• “The media net was designed from the ground up to provide privacy and security so that people could use it to transfer money. That’s one reason the nation-states collapsed – as soon as the media grid was up and running, financial transactions could no longer be monitored by governments.”

• Feed vs. Seed: Centralization vs. Decentralization

• “Peasants planted the seeds and had the highest status in the Confucian hierarchy. As the Master said, ‘Let the producers be many, and the consumers few.’ When the Feed came in from Atlantis, from Nippon, we no longer had to plant, because the rice now came from the matter compiler. It was the destruction of our society...”
• “CryptNet’s true desire is the Seed – a technology that, in their diabolical scheme, will one day supplant the Feed, upon which our society and many others are founded . . . It is their view that one day, instead of Feeds terminating in matter compilers, we will have seeds that, sown on the earth, will sprout up into houses, hamburgers, spaceships, and books . . . Of course, it can’t be allowed – the Feed is not a system of control and oppression, as CryptNet would maintain. It is the only way order can be maintained in modern society – if everyone possessed a Seed, anyone could produce weapons whose destructive power rivaled that of Elizabethan nuclear weapons.”

• Imposing limits on technology

• When the capabilities of technology are unlimited, where should society limit advancement, if at all?

• Moral absolutism vs. moral relativism

• “You know, when I was a young man, hypocrisy was deemed the worst of vices,” Finkle-McGraw said. “It was all because of moral relativism. You see, in that sort of a climate, you are not allowed to criticize others – after all, if there is no absolute right and wrong, then what grounds is there for criticism?”

Quotes taken from The Diamond Age. The copyrighted material quoted in this comment is contended to be fair use.

Jeff 09:56, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Mind death

I was going to fix some of the hell wreaked upon this page, but it's too late and it's too much. Can anyone destroy the analysis section and take out the fancruft, pointless silly opinions, and most importantly POV that is spewing out of that section?--[[User:TheGrza|TheGrza]] 09:35, Dec 21, 2004 (UTC)

Without analysis & opinions, what would be the utility of an entry? Seeing what other people thought of a book is useful; otherwise we could just list the ISBN and give spoilers, self-satisfied for having read it first. That's why I searched for it. I already know the book from my own POV. Brodo 20:13, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Summary

Is it just me or is the summary of the Book in complete. I don't see a reference to Hackworth's story. --Mtnerd 04:54, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Miss Matheson

"In a book signing at the Harvard Coop bookstore in Cambridge, Massachusetts on October 8, 2003, Stephenson affirmed the connection." I was at that book signing, and that's not at all what I remember him saying. My recollection is closer to him doing his best to avoid talking about that sort of thing, and leaving it that, if such an interpretation works for you, as the reader, fine, but don't think it's necessarily what he had in mind. --User:maw

there's talk on each one of the pages of zodiac, snow crash, and diamond age that the three books are loosely set in the same universe. If this is so then Hiro protaganist must ALSO be one of amy shaftoe's cousins who does, in fact, have a pair of samarai swords in his trunk. come on people he's just making some indirect references to other books he writes, it's not the same as saying their set in the same universe. so unless your ready to say that cryptonomicon is also set in the same universe, AND BACK IT UP, just let it go. Syzergy 06:01, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Book

I see the main character of the book being the Primer. Lord McGraw desires it to teach his granddaughter. Hackworth wants one for his daughter. Dr. X wants them for his rescued girls. Harv took the Primer for Nell. Fiona and Elizabeth were affected by their Primers in different ways, from each other or Nell.

Miranda's life is changed by the ongoing contract to support the primer (and it's user). Carl Hollywood gets to be a hero because of Miranda's request to find Nell. Hackworth gets to teach and love his daughter via the book, and succeeds in the subversion Lord McGraw seeks.

The Primer shows up early, and it's stories make up a significant portion of the novel. Save for some set up scene (like the whole deal with Bud, which I take to be Neal Stephenson putting a bullet in the back of the head of "cyberpunk" as a genre), the Primer is driving things.

It helps turn Nell into a leader and survivor. It helps give her critical thinking skills. It helps create her army, one she calls with the building display and the logo from the book, giving them the first big sign that they are needed and wanted.

The only place where this idea is tenuous is within the "Hackworth designs the seed, almost" and "Hackworth takes in a show that takes him in" subplots.

But indeed, Nell is using her Primer at the end to figure out where Miranda is, when Carl Hollywood gives it to her, having made the connection.

And in a funny way, the book *is* the seed, not because it can produce things without a feed, but it produces human beings much less dependant of the system set up the Neo-Victorians, humans who can think outside the strictures of their societies.

--Hacksaw

[edit] Bicameral mind?

Huh?? Where? The drummers? I don't think so. There was definitely some talk about such a thing in Snow Crash, but I didn't see it in either this or Zodiac, and it was in the Zodiac article, too. Is someone going around adding it to every article related to Stephenson? — Omegatron 03:06, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Attempts at restructuring

I just restructured the article so it somewhat follows the structure of many other Wikipedia articles on novels. I also tried to eliminate some redundancies. However, the plot summary is still incomplete in some important ways and perhaps too extensive in others. I am going to try to find reliable references to cite as well. --Jottce 22:33, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Characters

Isn't Bud Nell's father? — Omegatron 17:27, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Indeed he is. Thank you for pointing out the gap. --Jottce 17:47, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article structure

Randall Brackett, thank you for editing this article. However, I do feel the need for some discussion. You changed the article structure. I would prefer to keep the section heading (Plot introduction) because it helps to separate levels of detail, though I agree it is perhaps preferable to move it to before "Major themes." I did re-insert the spoiler warnings, since such warnings are established practice on Wikipedia for all articles on fiction. --Jottce 09:12, 9 July 2006 (UTC)