Talk:The Beatles (album)

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[edit] Double LP????

I didnt think RIAA counted it as 2 seperate sales unless the total time was over 100 minutes??(RIAA Certification) I think this album doesn't count as a double cd.--Fayettehelle,NC 04:32, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cassette Track Listing Slightly Different

I have a cassette version of the White Album, and the track listing is slightly different. Does this interest anyone?

[edit] Preceeding album

I believe, if I am not mistaken, that "Magical Mystery Tour" was release between "Sgt. Pepper" and the White Album. While it is true that one side of "Magical Mystery Tour" was just a collection of singles, the other side was new material. If some further clarification of what constitutes a "followup album" is needed, perhaps it would make sense to change the text back to refering "Sgt. Pepper".

Also, I don't have time to research this at this moment, but I think there should be some discussion about how this album showed the growing individualism of the members of the group, and the dissension of the group members that presaged the breakup of the album (I think that some tracks were recorded with only a couple of the members present, for example, but the details are fuzzy on this and I would need to research it). Also, why did Eric Clapton play the guitar on "While My Guitar Gently Weeps"? My memory tells me (and maybe this is wrong) that George, having played the sitar more than the guitar, was rusty on his guitar playing. But perhaps I am wrong on this.

I think this article gives a lot of praise to the album, but I always felt this album was a little more mixed in its quality than the earlier ones were.

You are wrong about the Eric Clapton bit. George had Clapton play guitar because the tension was high in the group and the other three were not taking his song seriously; he invited Clapton to solo because they'd have to be professional with an outsider around (Clapton did the same thing for "Badge" when Cream was falling apart). --KQ

Yeah, I'm probably not the one to add better balance here--if you ask me what the greatest artistic achievements of humankind are, I'd probably say Michaelangelo's Sistene Chapel ceiling, the white album, and GCC. --LDC

The question of whether "Magical Mystery Tour" was an album released between "The Beatles" and "Sgt. Pepper" depends on which country's discography we are talking about. In the United Kingdom, "Magical Mystery Tour" was a rather elaborate double EP package: two 7" extended-play singles containing six songs, released in a gatefold sleeve with booklet. The Beatles' American label, Capitol, felt that EPs did not sell in the US, so they cobbled together a full size 12" LP, with the six songs from the British double EP on the front and the remainder of the Beatles' 1967 non-Pepper output on the back, and called the whole thing "Magical Mystery Tour". Thus in the UK there was no true LP release between "Sgt. Pepper" and the White Album, while US fans got another LP for Christmas. Just to confuse things further, the 11 song Capitol package was released elsewhere in the world, and eventually in Britan in the early 70's (as an actual EMI release, not an import), and ultimately formed the basis for the current CD package. --WaveformDelta

[edit] Photos and copyright

Do we have the legal right to include the set of four photos? An entire artwork probably doesn't fall under "fair use"? Vicki Rosenzweig

This one's a tricky case, but I think these small images can be seen as references to the originals, not as reproductions (like a small photo of a painting in a museum), and "educational use" gets you a lot of leeway. Also, one could argue that the album is the entire work, and we're just noting that these photographs came with it. I was emboldened by the uploads of our resident lawyer, Isis, and I think she's pretty up to date on this stuff.

It was pointed out to me by a lawyer here that in 1968, the law required specific notice of copyright, unlike today, where things are automatically copyrighted unless specifically disclaimed. My copy of the white album shows a copyright notice on the recordings, and another on the lyrics, but no such notice for the pictures. This makes any claim of copyright on them unlikely to hold water. Indeed, the album itself doesn't even mention wo took them--I had to look that up elsewhere. --LDC

From the main article:

Along with such standard rockers as the opening "Back in the USSR", it

contains classic ballads like "I Will" and "Julia" (the latter written by John--one of his few),

"one of John's few" what? ballads? songs on the album? --KQ 10:45 Aug 24, 2002 (PDT)

Sorry--I meant one of the few ballads written by John; normally Paul writes the ballads. --LDC

As well as the photos, are we absolutely certain about the legal status of those sound clips? I know they ought to fall under fair use, but sadly, ought to doesn't always mean does. There have been a number of cases brought recently where people have been sued for using uncleared samples shorter than these - I know that the fact these samples were on profit making record labels, and that the plaintiffs could therefore expect a hefty dollop of cash if they won may have made them more willing to bring an action, but the RIAA and similar organisations have been bringing (or threatening) the strangest cases lately, and I wouldn't put anything past them. Certainly there have been cases brought against people who were never going to make any money at all from their allegedly illegal activities.

I'm sorry to even bring this up, but it seems to me that the wikipedia is eager to appear whiter than white on copyright issues (I'm thinking of the message on recent changes), and these samples seem to represent a risk that isn't worth taking. --Camembert

I should probably add: I wrote this before I'd noticed the response to Vicki's concerns about the pictures. I'm not a legal expert, and am more than happy to defer to somebody who is and is sure we're in the clear. It's just that I worry... Camembert

I worry too, but Lee usually has his ducks in a row. Still, I don't know if I'd be so bold.  :-) --KQ

Yeah, the pictures are a bit bold; if Mr. Kelley complains, I'll certainly remove them. Or even if someone gives me a good legal argument. But the sound clips are really no problem. Yes, the RIAA is a bit insane these days, but I doubt even they would go after samples that small and low-quality and in this context. Given the mood of the courts recently, such a suit would not only lose, it would likely get them sanctioned. I will also admit that pushing the envelope here a bit with the pictures should encourage Jimbo to work on the non-profit foundation, because if we get that settled, we'll really be in the clear on fair use. I also reduced the images a bit; the don't interfere with the article as much that way, and it's even clearer that we aren't trying to reproduce them. --LDC

For the record, *this* is a helter-skelter

Well, cool. At least I had a better idea than Manson. It sounds like you go on it over and over.

When I get to the bottom I go back to the top of the slide

Where I stop and I turn and I go for a ride

Get to the bottom and I see you again

The OED says the original name was "helter skelter lighthouse" and you slid down on a mat.

You still do (or at least you did 15-20 years ago, when I last went on one -- User:GWO

The first use of the phrase was Thomas Nashe, followed closely by Shakespeare in Henry IV. This is almost an article now. Ortolan88

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is almost always referred to as The White Album. Shouldn't it be moved? Tokerboy

Just my 2 cents.. everyone knows it as "the white album", but the correct title is "The Beatles". I don't personally really care one way or the other, but it seems more appropriate to me for the article to be named after the actual title, with a redirect from the White album. -Jazz77

Throughout the article, the album with a white cover is referred to as The White Album as if it’s the official title. In light of the above, shouldn’t the article refer to it by its actual title (The Beatles) or its description (“the white album”, as opposed to The White Album)? —Frungi 02:55, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

The original vinyl albums had "The Beatles" on the front cover in raised lettering (no ink), something which wasn't preserved on the CD releases. Also, they had a serial number stamped on the front, which eventually went over a million, I believe, before later pressings dropped it. I've heard that the first presses of the CD also had the serial number, although I've never seen one. Mordomo 00:32, 17 Sep 2003 (UTC)

My (well, my parents' :)) copy of the White Album LP doesn't have a serial number, although my CD copy does (it is the 30th anniversary version though, a scale replica of the original LP case with smaller pictures inside and all that, which is irritating because it doesn't fit in a CD slot...but I digress). Also, my parents' copy of the Sgt. Pepper LP doesn't have that bizarre repeating stuff at the very end of the groove, although a bit of it is on my CD version. Adam Bishop 00:37, 17 Sep 2003 (UTC)

I have an original CD with the serial number... but for some reason the number is 72961.... Is that just of numbered CD's or numbered CD's and Vinyls?? Maybe someone knows?--Fayettehelle,NC 04:36, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Not really sure where this goes, but "Honey Pie" is not Sinatraesque. It's in the same, early-twentieth century jazzy, vaudevillian style like "When I'm Sixty-four" from Sgt. Pepper's is. Sinatraesque is way off the mark.

[edit] George

Can anyone explain why the photo of George Harrisson from the White Album sleeve has been omitted? It even says under the photos that Harrison's photo is there but is clearly not. Pepperstool 07:48, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] reply to problem with LPs and CDs/length of White Album

To the person that said that Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club didn't have the bizarre noise on the LP, you're getting taught.

On the US copies of Sgt. Pepper's, the bizarre noise (Paul is a comic book character?) isn't on there. It just ends with the crashing chord of "A Day In The Life". On the CDs, released in 1987 by Parlophone/Apple in the US and UK, have the bizarre noise. Your parents, talking about the White Album, don't have the serial number copy. You do, because it's a remastered version.

Talking about the length:

The length of the White Album is about 94 minutes long. Up! by Shania Twain is almost 100 minutes long. Why in the world do they have Up! on 1 CD, but not the White Album? I know why:

In 1987, the average length of a CD was 45 minutes. Nowadays, it's 101 minutes. So, if Capitol rereleases the "White Album", it would be on 1 CD, not 2, but they would put it on 2 CDs because it would be really hard to find "Birthday", "Helter Skelter" or "Revolution 9", so there.

74 minutes is the maximum recommended playing time for a CD - anything longer is non-standard. While it's physically possible to master CDs of up to 99 minutes in length, an awful lot of CD players (especially older models) would have severe problems playing them; I doubt whether any CD player manufactured in 1987 would be able to play a 94 minute CD. AdorableRuffian 15:50, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Helter Skelter and Charles Manson

The mention of Charles Manson's connection to the song Helter Skelter was not accurate based on the info contained in the Wikipedia articles about the song itself and on Charles Manson, as well as other stuff I've read about Manson.. While it may be true the Susan Atkins saw prophecy in the song, that idea originated from Charles Manson. The whole bit about her spreading false publicity about Manson seemed to somehow suggest the whole Helter Skelter equals race war prophecy was a solely product of her mind. I change the reference to reflect the similar mentions of the connection in other Wikipedia articles. --Cab88 14:31, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The beginning of the end for The Beatles?

I think not... andreasegde 10:08, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rejected tracks

Please don't include rehashed hearsay in this encyclopedia. A bootleg of a song with varient lyrics doesn't constitute a rejected recording!

F**k a duck" for example was a one off rant by Lennon at the Maharishi during the recording of 'Sexy Sadie'.

Including a list of every twang The Beatles committed to tape with made up song titles doesn't make for a good article and won't remain on the page for long. Most of Abbey Road and Get Back/Let It Be was floating around in early forms not yet ready for recording during these sessions. This kind of obsessive inclusionism is pointless and is misleading for those who are interested in facts.

If you want to add further alledged "rejected tracks" then please include a verifyable reference.

simonthebold 01:20, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Lady Madonna was not a rejected track! It was not even done during the same sessions as the rest of the album. It was done before the beatles went to Rishikesh for the Maharishi camp; the single was released during thier absence. Same applies for The Inner Light and Hey Bulldog (passed up for the single by Lady Madonna). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Beatlesfan1234567890 (talk • contribs).

It's no good including tracks without specific references. For example just because Across the Universe was recorded and unreleased doesn't mean it was considered for the white album. If you are going to make this kind of statement then state your source and include page numbers etc. so the information can be verified! If not be prepared to see your entries swiftly removed!!!!

simonthebold 07:17, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Auto peer review

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[edit] When did Abbey Road get eight-track?

The article for the "White Album" makes the following statement (emphasis mine):

"While the Abbey Road studios had yet to install an 8-track machine that had supposedly been sitting in a storage room unpacked for months (evidently because EMI could not afford its power cord), the Beatles decided to out-source to the more updated Trident Studios.[1]"

What basis is there for the assertion that Abbey Road had no power cord for their 8-track machine? The footnote references Mark Lewisohn's "The Complete Beatles Recording Sessions", but Lewisohn never makes any such claim. On the contrary, his entry for Wednesday 31 July (pg. 146) discusses the state of Abbey Road's first 8-track machine in some detail; by his account the delay in installation had to do with dissatisfaction with its operation by the staff (he mentions problems with its overdub facility and vari-speed control), which implies that they were quite capable of powering the machine up. He also mentions they were waiting for construction of an 8-track mixing console to accompany the recorder. --WaveformDelta

[edit] Move

Why was the page moved? The correct title is "The Beatles (album)" even if the name of the band is capitalized. Please someone revert it. --69.79.196.112 00:10, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] VH1 List

I've corrected the VH1 list on six pages. Someone keeps referencing the list as having aired in 2003, but it aired in 2001. Here's a BBC article on this list dated 2001 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/1101986.stm) and this website also says compiled in 2001 (http://www.rockonthenet.com/archive/2001/vh1albums.htm). Were people thinking of the book that came out, or the album cover list that came out in 2003? I just wanted to correct it and point it out for future reference if anyone sees these errors somewhere else. Onresume December 13, 2006