Talk:Terracotta Army

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[edit] Bitch?

I was reading the article and came across this:

... the First Emperor was buried by a bitch alongside great amounts of treasure ...

Is bitch really right?

Pgrote 22:01, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Personal comments for the last paragraph of this original article

The uncalled-for last paragraph about the excluding the Tibetan exhibition is a kind of extreme argument. The phrase "bowed to" and "Chinese pressure" seem Chinese goverment like to destroy culture stuff in the world, even at the moment, Peking regime and all chinese people have seen the Tibetan culture as their own culture rather than a foreign culture, therefore, the exculding of Tibet exhibition at Barcelona in 2004 could be reasonable for Chinese goverment for protecting Tibetan culture and then carry forward it to worldwide.

I agree that the exhibition paragraph is adding bias to the article. It only has peripheral relevance to the topic and is written by someone with an ax to grind. Not that I necessarily disagree with them, but I don't think that it belongs here. --Beirne 15:22, Mar 29, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Contents of tomb

There have been rumors concerning "rivers of mercury", "gems to simulate the sun and planets". Can anyone elaborate with authority on this? -Jimaginator 12:51, December 12, 2005 (UTC)

During my tour, there was no mention about a river of mercury. This might be a subject of legend. I would be cautious about including this information, and would only do so with a clear disclaimer that it is indeed a subject of legend or folklore.

--Heesung 15:49, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

I saw a documentary that shortly mentioned this - it appears that some chineese historian (Sima Qian I believe) has described this Mousoleum and he mentions not only terracota army, but also a scale model of world inside the tomb - rivers and lakes filed with mercury to resemble waves, lightened by everlasting torches, and gems forming constellations... amazing story. Since tomb is not opened yet there can be only legends about contents of it, but as far I know mercury is very poisonos and I can`t imagine way how builders of the tomb in their time could posibly fill artifical lakes with it -- Xil - talk 06:55, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

I believe that there were actually rivers of mercury, but by the time the tomb was discovered by the farmers the mercury had all disappeared.. evaporated maybe? I could be wrong. --Robin Chen 4:14 February 10 2006

According to a documentary shown on UK television the other day, soil samples have been taken above the tomb to see if they contained any mercury (on the basis that mercury vapour from the tomb (which is still unopened) could have escaped through the roof of the tomb. It was stated that significant quantities of mercury were found, confirming the "rivers and seas of mercury" legend. I see that another editor has recently updated the article mentioning teh mercury. --rossb 18:14, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

The current version makes it sound as if the mercury is still intact and in the tomb. Is this accurate? --maru (talk) contribs 21:15, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Have the proper reference(s) been added to confirm the mercury? I would hate for this stuff to make it into the article without confirmation. Anyone know what the name is of the UK documentary? Jimaginator 11:57, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] video games?

The section about Terracotta soldiers being featured in a video game... is this really necessary? This section might be more relevant to an article on video games about war. --Heesung 15:46, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

I think references to popular culture, while not being perhaps strictly necessary, are certainly interesting. It shows that the Terracotta Army has captured the imagination of popular culture in a relatively short space of time. Ξxtreme Unction|_{yakkity yak} 15:50, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

I disagree. A video game is not relevant to the real Terracotta Army. If it were to be relevant, it would need to have a real impact on societies knowledge, such as a society assuming a fact because it is in the game, when infact it is incorrect. Even then, one would need to explain how this video game impacted society. Otherwise, the creation of a game is irrelevant to societies perception or knowledge of the Terracotta Army. Peoples' knowledge would be the same with or without the game. I will remove the section since it is not relevant. --Orbit One ^[Talk|Babel] 22:26, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Location!

When I went to visit this summer the tour guide mentioned something about the tomb being placed between two mountains and near a river for reasons of jade resources nearby or something. I don't quite remember what it was exactly, does anyone know? I think there was something about some superstitious belief also... --Robin Chen 4:23 Feb 10 2006

I also was told about that -- the mountains the Shanxii province are a source of jade.--Heesung 14:58, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Malicious user

Can anything be done about the users who keep defacing this page? IPs 71.134.54.229 and 63.192.31.221 i think?

Mercifull 10:05, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Edit, edit edit?

Why the numerous edit links on the bottom? Royrules22 06:29, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WP:MilHist Assessment

A nice article, with good length and sections, and lots of images. It includes a lot of things not central to the topic (which is a good thing - it's fleshed-out in the direction of becoming potentially a A-class-plus article). However, while the majority of what needs to be said has been, I think the sections still look short, and some expansion would be necessary in order to achieve GA or better status. LordAmeth 12:57, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Moved from article: Trivia

The Terracotta Army under construction in Emperor: Rise of the Middle Kingdom.

Emperor: Rise of the Middle Kingdom, a computer game simulating the economy and trade of medieval China, includes a sequence on the Qin empire where the Terracotta Army is constructed by the player as part of the scenario goal. Laborers dig out a massive pit, after which carpenters assemble the wooden pillars. Ceramists use clay to make the Army, after which more carpenters hammer a wooden covering over the pit. Finally, this roof-like covering is covered over by dirt.

The computer game Rise of Nations includes the Terracotta Army as a wonder that the player can build. The wonder generates a new infantry unit once every minute.

In the Discworld novel Interesting Times, the wizard Rincewind discovers the Agatean Empire's equivalent of the Terracotta Warriors, who in fact turn out to be ancient battle robots controlled by a magical form of virtual reality.

In the console game Dynasty Warriors 5, there is an opening movie that shows the Terracotta army turning into real soldiers. This sequence shows them rushing to fight Zhao Yun, a hero of Shu, while others such as Cao Pi look on.

My reasoning to remove them is up there in the 'Video Games' section. --Orbit One ^[Talk|Babel] 04:37, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

I have restored the trivia section. My reasoning is also up there in the "Video Games" section, and has not changed in the 8 months since I originally wrote it. Ξxtreme Unction|_{yakkity yak} 05:11, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

I still disagree with you. I would agree it should stay if you can show me the section would not be removed from the game's own article. That is, if you put the same text in the game's article as it stands here in this article. Until then, I will remove it as fancruft. --Orbit One ^[Talk|Babel] 09:23, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

And I still disagree with you. This article is neither the first, nor the last, nor the only Wikipedia article regarding an academic subject that has a section detailing instances where that subject is referenced in popular culture. Please do not remove perfectly valid, verifiable information merely because it does not meet your criteria for relevance. Ξxtreme Unction|_{yakkity yak} 12:22, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

I am not the only one who disagrees.

There is a proposal to remove such triva and popular culture references from all but the most relevant articles. It has the support of several users.
The arguement that the section would not be able to stand on its own in the games own article is a valid argument for removal from this article.
This is fancruft. It is relevant to only a small portion of people on wikipedia and not relevant to others. It is generally supported that fancruft and cruft in general should be removed from articles. Read Wikipedia:fancruft for more information.
Just saying it is relevant doesn't prove that it is relevant. Please give me some arguments to support your position that I have not addressed yet.

--Orbit One ^[Talk|Babel] 12:26, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Further to the point. Wikipedia:Importance details three qualifiers for importance.

An article is "important" enough to be included in Wikipedia if any one of the following is true:

There is evidence that a reasonable number of people are, were or might be simultaneously interested in the subject (eg. it is at least well-known in a community).
It is an expansion (longer than a stub) upon an established subject.
Discussion on the article's talk page establishes its importance.

In the first (1), there is not a reasonable number of people who are, were or might be interested in this subject at any one given point of time. These references are not well known to the community. It being featured in these games is not well known to the community in general if one openly asks them without telling them about it before hand. In the second (2), this section would qualify as a stub or list which is nearly indiscriminate, in that the game only needs to feature the Terracotta Army in one form or another. Third (3), the importance has not been established because it is in dispute. Thus, there is no current reason to display that section at the present time and should be removed until one of the tree qualifiers are met. --Orbit One ^[Talk|Babel] 12:56, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

There are people who are opposed to the removal of trivia sections. Therefore, the fact that there are also people who support the removal of trivia sections is not, in and of itself, particularly compelling.
I do not agree that information has to be perfectly symmetrical to justify its existence in an article.
Just saying that it is irrelevant does not prove that it is irrelevant. Ξxtreme Unction|_{yakkity yak} 13:30, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

The lack of arguments for its relevancy is enough of an argument for it being irrelevant when the section is called into dispute. Wikipedia is not a random list of related information. It is an encyclopedia of relevant information. What arguments are there for its (trivia's) importance or interest? The section is several things. It is a Directory of software that features the Terracotta Army (What Wikipedia is not), it is Trivia with no importance (Wikipedia:Trvia) and it is fancruft. These are all valid reasons for the removal of the section. What reasons are there for the sections inclusion?

--Orbit One ^[Talk|Babel] 13:42, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

As I mentioned, the section in question fits the description of a directory of games which feature the Terracotta Army. Here is an example of a directory. Wikipedia:Directory

As a matter of policy, which is found on Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not, Wikipedia is not a directory. The trivia section is bound to this policy and the decision to remove the section is justified. I will remove the section first at 17:00 Copenhagen time to give you time to reply. --Orbit One ^[Talk|Babel] 15:16, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

The heading "Terracotta Army references in popular culture" is problematic. If this heading merits inclusion, then why not create this heading in every other article? References in popular culture does NOT fit within the scope of this article, especially the bit about video games. This article should be about the actual Terracotta, not about what sort of video game it is mentioned in. Heesung 18:43, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

No further arguments against removal were made, so either those who objected left the whole discussion, or have no further objections. Removed because it is a software directory; the directory listed games that featured the terracotta army. --Orbit One ^[Talk|Babel] 15:07, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Usage of the exact number of figures: 8,099

Can someone provide a citation for this number of figures being 1) exactly determined or 2) untirely unearthed? To my knowledge, which is in no way complete or good, there is only an estimate of figures (somewhere around 8000, so 8099 could very well be correct), and there are still many more to be unearthed. Am I mistaken?Eliteyak 19:32, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Xianyang or Xi'an

Are they located in Xianyang or Xi'an? - Privacy 12:47, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

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