Category talk:Terrorists

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Archive 1

For a list of previous deletion debates see Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Terrorists

Contents 1 Distinguishing state terrorism 2 Recent archival 3 Another solution 4 Proposed rewrite 4.1 Proposed text 5 Page protection 6 Membership in a known terrorist group 7 Delete 8 CfD no consensus and relinking the history of the discussions 9 WP:CFD 10 Systematic bias 11 October/November 2006 deletion discussions

[edit] Distinguishing state terrorism

I've added "Non-state actor" back as a qualifier to distinguish state terrorism--this was part of the November 2005 consensus writeup below. User: Nat Krause removed it a while back, claiming POV; this is a misunderstanding. The category specification is not intended to claim that states do not perpetrate acts of terrorism, merely that these acts belong on their own list. I tried to make that explicit on the category page and included a number of links to the preferred category. Please let me know what you think--I know the subject inspires a great deal of emotion, but I believe we can best accomodate the span of views through informative text rather than changing categorizations.---Knoepfle 18:44, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Recent archival

Please see the note below for the rationale behind the archival and the page protection. --HappyCamper 03:05, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Another solution

It has been a number of weeks now since another contributor has commented on anything here, so it seems that only two editors are involved at the moment. How about this? Let's give everyone a chance to break from this article.

I'll protect both the category and the talk page for say, 5 days. At the same time, I'm also going to archive the discussion on this talk page. That way, after the 5 days, everyone will have a blank talk page to work with, and symbolically it will be a clean start. This hasn't been tried before, so would you two be willing to give this a chance? --HappyCamper 01:43, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Yes, good... protect, archive, I'll chill and relax. Thanks muchly, HappyCamper. Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters 02:23, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

<edit conflict>Hmm...I'll be bold and protected it anyway. The idea is for everyone to relax and break from this article for the next 5 days. We can reinvigorate the discussion again afterwards. I will notify both of you when I unprotect these pages, so you don't have to continually worry about monitoring this page. In the meantime, please feel free to post on my talk page if something else comes up.

Here, I think we can all use these lovely tulips too. Ah! Smell the unique fragrance of spring!! --HappyCamper 03:05, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed rewrite

I unprotected this talk page because I just happened to come by today and I have something to add, and of course it's not fair if only admins can post. (It's actually rather unusual to protect talk pages, but I hope I'm not unduly interrupting anyone's wikibreak by posting here...)

I find the current description to be overly formal and somewhat wordy (something I am often guilty of myself), and as I previously mentioned, missing a few helpful links to related articles. Please discuss the following replacement. (Though feel free to take a few days to think about it before responding.) I have tried to make this definition more consistent with terrorism, which has already been successfully hashed out among a number of editors. -- Beland 05:38, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Oh, and might I recommend the use of Wikipedia:Requests for comment and/or Wikipedia:Third opinion to help resolve any future impasses? I will try not to neglect this page quite so much, though I often let controversial questions stew for a while before responding. -- Beland 05:51, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed text

This category (and subcategories) is for individuals only. For organizations, see Category:Terrorism and List of terrorist organizations.

There exist many different definitions of terrorism, but the article terrorism notes the following most commonly included elements:

• Use of unlawful violence or the threat of unlawful violence.
• Targeting civilians.
• Non-state actor. (See state terrorism instead.)
• Absence of a state of war (specifically conventional warfare), thus excluding war crimes.
• Designed to coerce, frighten, or "send a message" to the public or a government (thus excluding organized crime performed for personal gain).

Individuals listed in this category have verifiably used or attempted to use terrorist tactics, by the above criteria. Self-identification as a "terrorist" is not required; see terrorism for a list of alternative terms, with both positive and negative connotations.

See also: List of terrorists

{{SCD}}

I'm happy with the proposed text. Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters 02:29, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Tx, Beland, seems like the update that was needed - I move it to the category page. --Francis Schonken 09:38, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Yay! -- Beland 07:05, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Page protection

Hi Beland! Well, I agree it is quite unusual to protect talk pages, but it was done so that the active editors could have a bit of breathing space. Now that the page is unprotected, let's leave it that way. At least we can say that we had a blissful 2 days of relaxing. --HappyCamper 02:11, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Now that the suggested five-day protection period for the cat page is over I have unprotected. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 11:01, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks Tony :-) --HappyCamper 01:28, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Membership in a known terrorist group

Is merely being a member of a known terrorist group a ground for belonging to this group? Shawnc 12:30, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

No, unless they were convicted for it. Mirror Vax 17:04, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Delete

See Words_to_avoid#Terrorist.2C_terrorism. Per Wikipedia policy, we were supposed to avoid use of the word terrorist without qualifiers such as "considered by [party] to be..." The existence of this article basically creates a list of individuals considered by Wikipedia to be terrorists, which clearly violates the spirit of Wikipedia policy concerning the word. This article should be deleted. Aiden 01:12, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

It should be noted that Words to avoid is a guideline not policy. There is a difference. --Syrthiss 13:13, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Delete this category. As it says on the "Terrorism" page, "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter". It's inherently not NPOV. 24.59.110.228 08:02, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] CfD no consensus and relinking the history of the discussions

This category was nominated for deletion or renaming on 2006 January 28. The result of the discussion was no consensus to delete. An archived record of this discussion can be found on this log page.

Archive of discussion votes on cfd (updated with this one): Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Terrorists

[edit] WP:CFD

This category was nominated for deletion or renaming on 2006 September 23. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

[edit] Systematic bias

I notice that a wide range of Arabs are included here, but Baruch Goldstein (responsible for the Cave of the Patriarchs massacre, listed as a "Terrorist incident") and Yitzhak Shamir (involved in the assassination of the civilian Folke Bernadotte) are not, and so on.

Clearly we should apply WP:WTA fairly. The CFD failure notwithstanding, I propose simply removing all entries from this category one by one, citing WP:WTA for each one. —Ashley Y 22:15, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

You are proposing to override an official procedure on the basis of a mere guideline. In my opinion the appropriate response to such deliberate disruption would be to block your account. Piccadilly 11:26, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

No, he would be proposing to look at each article individually in line with WP:WTA and WP:NPOV - which is what really is in question here. The CFD's just look at the category itself rather than the article. If the CFD fails, I would do this anyway as the articles themselves would have to contain evidence that the person self defines as a terrorist (so far I have found 1 person who self defines as a terrorist). Trying to keep wikipedia neutral is not disruption - threatening to block for enacting out policies is.-Localzuk^(talk) 11:30, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] October/November 2006 deletion discussions

This category was nominated for deletion or renaming on 2006 October 31. The result of the discussion was delete.

This decision was then overturned at deletion review [1] and sent back to CFD.

This category was nominated for deletion or renaming on 2006 November 15. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

For a (hopefully complete) list of previous deletion debates see Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Terrorists. the wub "?!" 12:54, 25 November 2006 (UTC)