User talk:Telsa

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• User talk:Telsa: archive 01: April 2005-March 2006.

Contents 1 Articles you might like to edit, from SuggestBot 2 Boo 3 Wikipedia:WikiProject Rugby union 4 Jack Whyte 5 Lloegyr 6 Blondin Award 7 Shattering Glass 8 Cadoc and Cambuslang 9 History of Wales 10 Barnstar 11 Cause for concern 12 Llywelyn the Great FAC 13 If it's good enough for the BBC.. 14 Dolgellau 15 Unfinished work 16 BBC News peer review 17 Diolch yn fawr, Telsa (thanks) 18 Identity 19 Laptop explosion 20 Appology 21 Star Cops 22 Request for adminship 23 English speaking "patches" 24 Great Fire of London 25 Cian 26 Citing television programmes 27 S4C Notable Programmes!

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[edit] Boo

Hi Telsa. I'm off to Texas for two weeks from next week. No connection - honest ;) Rhion 07:05, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:WikiProject Rugby union

There was a project to help improve the quality of rugby union articles on Wikipedia. Recently it has become inactive, I'm trying to get it restarted. If you are interested, please sign up (follow the link).GordyB 21:16, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jack Whyte

JACK WHYTE: Camulud suggestions [Jack Whyte]. I am Jack Whyte's biggest fan (I'm sure) and have made some suggestions of things I would like to do for that page on his discussion page. If you have any other suggestions I would be pleased to hear about them. --merlinus 23:57, 10 April 2006 (UTC)Melinus--merlinus 23:57, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lloegyr

The citation for the term Lloegyr and its translation is a problem. The "lost land" has been cited ennumerate times as the translation of the term Lloegyr. It is used throughout Bernard Cornwell's books amongst other places. Geoffrey of Monmouth said that the term originally came from a "King Loeger" who was a legendary son of the Trojan founder of various British dynasties called Brutus and ruled the area now known as England. Considering his other sons were "Camber" who ruled Wales and "Alba" who ruled Scotland and who were both sub-serviant to Loeger, makes this appears to be extremely dubious as these territories did not form around 1000BC which is when Brutus, if he lived, would have lived, but much much later in the early middle ages. The origin of this explanation by Geoffrey (who has an active imagination) is probably a servile gesture to the English monarch at the time to justify his military occupation of Scotland and Wales. I agree, the entymology of this phrase needs to be uncovered, perhaps a fluent Welsh speaker can help us with this. James Frankcom

This is an interesting question. The name, Welsh for "England", certainly existed before Sieffre o Fynwy / Geoffrey of Monmouth gave his fevered imagination full vent in the Historia regum Britanniae. The book is a marvellous piece of fiction which incorporates a number of genuinely Welsh myths and traditions, but the parts about Brutus and his three sons is pure bunk (as you point out, with a political aim as well). You get similar myths in other west European countries (minus Locrinus etc) about Brutus fleeing from Troy to found a kingdom, all dating from the Middle Ages.

The earliest instance of Lloegyr (modern Welsh Lloegr) occurs in the probably early 10th century prophetic poem Armes Prydain. It seems comparatively late as a place name, the nominative plural Lloegrwys, "men of Lloegr" being earlier and more common. Remember that England was divided into kingdoms. The English were sometimes referred to as an entity in early poetry (Saeson, as today) but just as often as Eingl (Angles), Iwys (Wessex-men), etc. Lloegr and Saeson became the norm later when England emerged as a kingdom. As for its origins, some scholars have suggested that it originally referred only to Mercia - at that time a powerful kingdom and for centuries the main foe of the Welsh. It was then applied to the new kingdom of England as a whole. If you can, get hold of a copy of Rachel Bromwich's edition of Trioedd Ynys Prydain (University of Wales Press, 1987) (it's in English); it's a virtual encyclopedia of early Welsh lore and you'll find the answer to a lot of questions there (or at least a sound starting point). I don't know where some writers get "the lost land" from; it's a good desciption of England from an early Welsh point of view but has no etymological basis whatsoever (although Geoffrey of Monmouth might disagree!).

Hello, by the way! Enaidmawr 23:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Blondin Award

For your selfless work improving the quality of articles in the face of opposition, you are presented with the prestigious Blondin Award or Tightrope Award, originally created for SlimVirgin. It represents the amazing Charles Blondin carrying Jimbo Wales safely across the Niagara Falls. Bishonen | talk 21:58, 18 April 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Shattering Glass

Oh! You win the prize! I'm sure you are right, "Think of a Number" (or "Think Again") was almost certainly what I was thinking about on the Talk:Whistle register page. Thank you for that trip down memory lane! --Yamla 17:20, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cadoc and Cambuslang

Thanks for your comments on this. Reference is James A Wilson, History of Cambuslang: a Clydesdale Parish (1929), but he relies on local pre-Reformation veneration for the saint and his continuing renown in the Parish. I have amended the Cambuslang article and am happy to follow your lead re Cadoc. I though a mere link would indicate an interesting possibility without claiming too much historically (though most of our knowledge of the Celtic saints is based on legends - and none the worse for that, given their tenacity).

Thanks again for your comments.

(from User:Tony164, 2006-05-11)

[edit] History of Wales

Thanks. I'll see if any of the citations can be recycled for Welsh people as well. Rhion 07:26, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Barnstar

		The Original Barnstar
		To show your fab work is appreciated. Alun 11:07, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cause for concern

Dear Telsa, you may be aware of the existence of [[Category:Welsh-speaking people]]. This has been nominated for deletion, on the grounds that all "similar" categories, eg. English-speaking people, would be "too big". I'm not prepared to die in a ditch over it, but I do feel that it's an obvious exception. If you have an opinion, would you care to contribute to the debate? Deb 19:12, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Llywelyn the Great FAC

Thanks Telsa. I should have thought of that myself! The FAC seems to be going OK at the moment, though it could do with a few more votes. Rhion 06:26, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Diolch yn fawr. Rhion 05:14, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] If it's good enough for the BBC..

Heya. Just saw your edit summary and thought I could detect a note of frustration. Know the feeling. I'm sure the BBC will do, though! I have a nice quote from Jan Morris about the cockles of Penclawdd, but alas, it doesn't mention breakfasts. :)

Btw, looking at your name, I think I recognise it. I was wondering if we have a non-Wikipedia mailing list in common..?

Telsa (talk) 15:32, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Hiya. Yes, there may have been a touch of frustration there - not for the first time this week! Probably more to do with real work than this, which is a handy distraction. Thanks for the sympathy:)

I'm guessing you're on Clwb Malu Cachu (another great distraction). I'd noticed your name rang a bell too - I should have put two and two together before. The longer you spend in the global village, the more you start to realise it's not even a very big village... garik 17:18, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dolgellau

Hiya. I don't suppose you know much at all about Dolgellau do you? Or know of any sources about it? I've expanded the article drastically from this to this (I've done the same to the Welsh version too), but the history section's based only very few sources and one's pretty old. It'd be nice if we could really expand all the articles about Welsh things in general - and Wicipedia really needs work. garik 11:00, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unfinished work

Excellent reference additions - thanks! violet/riga (t) 11:40, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] BBC News peer review

Hi. Thanks for your comments on the BBC News peer review. I will act on your suggestions and hope others will do so as well. I will be away for the next two weeks but will resume editing once I return. Thanks again! Wikiwoohoo 16:51, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Diolch yn fawr, Telsa (thanks)

Thanks for inserting the footnote - the pesky thing just didn't want to go in! You're right about Meic StePHens as well - that's what comes of typing faster than the brain's working, or is it vice versa? Anyway, it's appreciated. I love Welsh / Celtic literature, history and legend, amongst other things. Hope I find time to add something to CYBI in the near future. So much to do! Regards, Enaidmawr 23:05, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Identity

Are you the wife of Alan Cox? Or is you name Telsa Gwynne? --80.63.213.182 14:25, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Laptop explosion

Was sorry to hear about Alan's laptop explosion... hope it didnt cause too much damage to your house.  ALKIVAR™ 16:09, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Appology

Sorry, the bollocks wasn't directed at you specifically. Sorry if it appeared that way. The bit bellow that about Welsh people identifying as the original inhabitants of Great Britain was for you. I made both comments at the same time, but they weren't meant to be related. The bollocks was due to a general frustration at lack of response to the proposition I had made. I generally agree with your original post, the article should be about Welsh people, and not about origins, and genetics seems to be largely irrelevant to this article. So I had thought that my proposition would be generally welcomed by those who want to move the article in a more constructive direction, but I got a wall of silence, it's awfully frustrating when one attempts to forge a compromise only to be ignored. But it was certainly not meant to be directed at you, it was more an expression of frustration. Appologies again for offending you. Alun 16:48, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

You might be right about the article. Thinking about the whole History section in Welsh people, it contains much information that is prehistorical in nature, and that is not really about Welsh people. I've been on English people a fair bit as well, and it's the same problem there. I suppose the question is when did these people actually start to think of themselves as Welsh? (or English). The Brythonic peoples of Britain during the sub-Roman period probably did not see themselves as a single (Welsh) people, but they were clearly seen as Welsh by the various peoples living on the island who spoke Old English. John Davies may have something to say on this in his excellent A History of Wales, unfortunately my brother has had my copy for quite some time, and it's a few years since I read it, and here's something from the BBC,(The defining of Wales) which means we should think of Welsh people as starting to identify as a single group at about the time of Offa of Mercia, this would make some sense to me. I've left my suggestion on Talk:Immigration to the United Kingdom and on Talk:English people, I still think this is the way to go, I'd probably split the Immigration article into three, with a pre 1066 article, a 1066-1707 article and an Immigration to the UK article for post 1707, because then at least it's the UK, rather than just Great Britain. I'd like to get at least some sort of support for this rearangement before I made any edits that were too bold. Thanks for the message. Alun 10:32, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Star Cops

Thanks very much for your kind comments about my update to the Star Cops article. Much appreciated since it was a lot of hard work for what's a pretty obscure topic. I've a few small tweaks to make to the piece which I'll be uploading in a few days. On a slightly related note, at the moment I'm trying to improve the Moonbase 3 article which is proving to be a much more difficult task but should be ready sometime this week. Joe King 15:21, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Request for adminship

Telsa, I know it's a while since we last spoke, but as we worked together concerning the Nobility article I would appreciate it if you could comment on my request for adminship (Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Walton monarchist89). I feel I've now been a Wikipedian long enough that I am capable of fulfilling the duties of an admin, and it's always been an ambition of mine to serve Wikipedia in this capacity. Walton monarchist89 09:15, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments. As to edit summaries, I often get so engrossed in the edits I'm making that I forget to do the summary - but I'll try to pay more attention to them in future. (Notice I've done a summary for this edit.) Walton monarchist89 12:01, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] English speaking "patches"

Thanks for your comments. I have spent many years investigating linguistic boundaries in Wales. They are fascinating because they consist of quite sharp cultural divides that have existed for many centuries without the aid of any sort of legal status or visible markers. Although they have been a permanent feature, they have moved around quite a bit from time to time. The main driver behind these movements (I have found) is short-range migration (say 5-10 miles in a lifetime) that people in scattered Welsh settlements have always made. Contrary to common belief, the main thrust of this movement in the "early modern" (pre-census) period was to expand the Welsh-speaking areas. My own (eccentric) opinion, based on a lot of circumstantial evidence, is that both sides of the Bristol channel were settled by the English in century following the Battle of Deorham in 577 AD. Thus one could contentiously suggest that the so-called 'Landsker' originally extended from St Bride's bay to Chepstow. Insofar as this line has shown breaks in south Carmarthenshire and West Glamorgan in modern times, these can be explained by extension of the welsh-speaking areas (by migration) in the Tudor period and in the early industrial revolution. Probably the whole of the Vale of Glamorgan, south of the coal-field, was english-speaking in the middle ages, and it is absolutely certain that the southernmost part of the Vale (between Penarth and St Athan) has been solidly english-speaking for at least 800 years. Cardiff is a classic "English Borough", but because the Welshry is so close, there must always have been a consistent but small Welsh minority in the town. The same goes for Newport and Swansea. This, of course, is not encyclopedia stuff (yet), and the "received knowledge" is still defined by such works as G H Jenkins (ed) The Welsh Language before the Industrial Revolution, UoW Press, 1997, ISBN 0-7083-1418-X, and G H Jenkins (ed) Language and Community in the 19th Century, UoW Press, 1998, ISBN 0-7083-1467-8, also in your library. The latter contains several good (but data-poor) articles on Glamorgan.....LinguisticDemographer 21:35, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Great Fire of London

Hi there, Telsa. The reason there's so much argufying about the prose of Great Fire of London on the talkpage is no doubt that the article is nominated on WP:FAC right now. Please don't take this as a request for support, now! I know you don't normally comment on FAC. But in case you want a look-see, much of the discussion of the article is there. Best, Bishonen | talk 16:55, 8 November 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Cian

Telsa,

Thanks for your comments on the page List of Welsh language poets (6th century to c.1600). I've removed the link to Cian as it wasn't an appropriate link: Cian was a Mythical Irish Figure.

You're right about there being no information about the Welsh poet "Cian". While I need to discuss this with my partner in crime Enaidmawr, my plan is to have a subsection under 6th century to 1100 labelled something like Nonextant Poets which will provide a brief bullet summary on what we know about each poet. I suspect it will be as you pointed it,

'Cain - one of five poets named by Nennius in the Historia Britonum as a contemporary of Taliesin'.

Regards, Janus 12:22, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Citing television programmes

Hi Telsa. There are a few Wikipedia templates for citing television and other audiovisual material: see Template:cite video, Template:cite visual and Template:cite episode. The associated talk pages may also provide some help. Personally, for citing individual episodes of TV series I prefer the APA style as set out here but there is no template that fits this correctly. Hope this helps, Joe King 12:59, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] S4C Notable Programmes!

Wouldn't you agree that programmes such as Con Passionate and Cowbois ac injans which have won awards, deserve an article and a link from the S4C main article just like any other notable programme? However I do agree than an article about S4C Closedown Screen (which has now been deleted by someone??) is a little unnecessary because it isn't very notable. (Cepb 13:03, 13 December 2006 (UTC))