Talk:Takis Tsoukalas
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[edit] What's the importance of this article?
Well this article has to be deleted as soon as possible. For anybody who doesn't know what I'm talking about, Takis Tsoukalas is an extremely controversial person and leader of the hardcore fans of Olympiakos in Greece. He is the host of a tv show who considered by many people in Greece, "a hooligan show". Many people telephone to talk with him and he swears anyone who does not agree with his "arguments" or showing offensive videos for other fans or teams such as AEK, Panathinaikos, PAOK etc. This article lack of importance and accuracy and must be deleted... KaragouniS 16:46, 7 November 2006 (UTC)KaragouniS
Just a hooligan and nothing more, far from "an honest guy"
[edit] We have to be objective in our reviews
Even if some people consider Mr Tsoukalas to be a hooligan, we cannot constrict anyone from writting an article about him, as long as this article is neutral and objective. Thus, I believe that it would be against the democratic view of Wikipedia if we delete any article
[edit] It's a shame to wikipedia standards and views, to keep such articles.
This article except from the evident issues (lacking reference, obvious unimportant subject stated from from the absent links none the less) has serious objectiveness and academic importance issue.
Specificly, a hooligan, a person that promotes violence and that his intellectual ability is limited, in this article appears as a wisdom figure on the one hand and on the other hand as a "bully" since in the article there are stated terms like "minor teams" for teams like AEK or Panathinaikos which for years were ranked 10 and 20 positions above olympiakos in the UEFA ranks, or terms like "piss off", not to mention that the article creator himself declares (proudly?) that he is rude to watchers of the show opposing his views.
Another strong point suggesting the deletion of this article, is the unimportance of the person itself, his show is broadcasted from a channel owned by the owner of Olympiakos FC, and this speaks for itself concerning both the motives of those backing this article and Tsoukalas's ones. Crucial info that should not be overlooked is that the channel is only covering a very small geographical area (mostly Piraeus - Olympiakos FC city of origin), and has a very limited amount of watchers.
Last but not least, there is no equivalent entry in greek version of wikipedia, proving the g=fact that the writers of this article have nothing to do with academic sources, or they knew the greater editting in the greek version wouldn't allow for inaccuracies, or would end in deletion for sure.
Given the above, and the fact that nobody cares to alter the article itself, instead most people suggest a deletion, declare that this article fails to meet the wikipedia standards and should be deleted.
[edit] This is outrageous and definatelly, not democratic!
If someone believe, that there are many improvements to be done in an article, he is free to make them. But, it is outrageous from people who believe in the spirit and freedom of wikipedia to demand the deletion of an article. People should use their opinion in order to improve an article, and not in order to delete them in a vulgar display of blind fanaticism.
THE LEAST THAT SHOULD BE DONE
Although there are too many things in this article that ARE NOT CORRECT... ...the sentence "In 2005, Tsoukalas was attacked by an angry mob of Panathinaikos fans who set his car alight." should be removed. How does the author verifies that they were Panathinaikos fans? Were there any arrests? Are there any evidence?
[edit] My recent additions
I have tried to shed some light and included a in depth profile of Takis Tsoukalas. I considered the previous article worthy of deletion but this one is up to my standards, and I am sure to everyone elses. If we cannot manage a deletion and Takis is destined to disgrace the pages of our beloved encyclopedia it better be in the current state the article is in. I am acceptin votes of affirmation of this. 62.38.23.26 06:16, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Deletion
I believe we should ALL ask this article to be deleted. Biographies of any stupid hooligan like Tsoukalas are NEVER included in ANY encyclopedia, so why wikipedia must include this guy's bio? Please express your contrast with this article's existance in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Takis Tsoukalas. This article MUST BE DELETED.- KaragouniS 11:12, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
- And please, when you post something in all talk pages, DONT FORGET TO SIGN 11:14, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Freedom of speech??????
Dear Wikipedia owners,
Well, I never thought I would see the day, that in the name of Democracy we would allow the existence of such a useless information on an encyclopedia.
Forgive me if you may, but I do not see the reason (even if it is obvious to other people…) for an entry which is surely offensive and totally fictional, to exist in the pages of a serious source of information such as Wikipedia! I will explain myself.
Offensive it is, for the reader who is proficient on the Greek language, for numerous reasons. One of them is that it holds an extensive content of foul language covered in “greeklish” (a form of written speech developed in chat rooms, it uses Latin alphabet instead of Greek alphabet to express Greek words and expressions). Also, offensive it is, for none other reason than the undermining role that it holds for an information source such as Wikipedia. A user turns into an encyclopedia for educational reasons, to my belief. If people think that learning about the existence of a TV show (dedicated to fanatics of an athletic team) presenter (who has no educational role of what so ever, even to his public), is helpful or informative….I rest my case here! In such a case, please bring me a time machine to take me back to ancient Greece, where democracy EXISTED FOR REAL!!!!!!!!
Forgive me please, but I’m not sure how it is possible for an article that resembles a fictional novel (regardless of its offensive content, or not) to hold a place in the pages of an encyclopedia…. What is the use of its existence???? Anyone? One other thing about this so called biography is the lack of sources. It has no input to confirm the alleged “true facts” of the life of this person. Who is the one who will accept the presence of a fictional event under the label of truth?
It is fictional for the reason that it doesn’t link itself to other sources to confirm its allegations! If Wikipedia, is a novel presentation forum or site, please let me know, I have many useless stories for the interested readers in hand!!!!!!
To conclude, I have to say that it is offensive to me, to read about Democratic procedures, and yet not see the object of vote anywhere inside of these proceedings! If you want to be democratic, you are obliged to present us of a voting system fair and simple, and allow us to vote for occasions which conflict of opinion exists.
As for the deletion request made by some, I’m with it all the way….but I believe that we should vote for it!
I hope that you consider these words and make the right decision!!!!
Yours truly, D. Drakopoulos
[edit] Express your contrast against this article
Here you can vote whether or not you want this (useless) article to be included in wikipedia ----> Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Takis Tsoukalas KaragouniS 18:37, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Its really sad...
Unfortunatelly, some people cannot understand the true meaning of some words like "democracy", that has nothing to do with ancient Greece, unless if we consider slavery to be democratic, but it has to do with freedom of expression. Its so democratic to ask the deletion of an article, as if I would ask to delete all other users comments in here. I understand that this article lacks of references and in some points it might be unreliable, but its up to every user to improve this article. A posible deletion is not going to solve any problem. If it was to delete every controversial article, there would be no importand issue included in wikipedia. For example, people should demand the deletion of the article about cyprus, since half of the users will consider that there are many wrong written issues. Our work here is not to delete articles, but to improve them and expand wikipedias information, even in matters that we do not agree. Personal opinions are of NO USE in here.
[edit] Stasi spy
is this true?--84.172.90.6 11:43, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
it's widely speculated. If you mean true, as in with a court order then the anwer is no. But then how many actual spies have you seen outed in court? It would defy the point of spying if it that was a usual bussiness. There's been a plethora of evidence in the greek press however, most notably, the thirty plus pages special booklet issued by eleftherotypia, with only a miniscule portion of the stazi archives making extensive reference to the person in question. That said, it's the basis of all western democracies that everyone is innocent until proven guilt, and we should always bear that in mind. 195.134.69.112 00:53, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
