Talk:Takfiri
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[edit] Some more information
From de Volkskrant, "Vrouwen rond Hofstadgroep worstelen met verhoor" [Women surrounding Hofstad group wrestle with interrogation], by Volkskrant reporters Janny Groen and Annieke Kranenberg, published 3 Sept 2005:
- "Takfiri verklaren andersdenkenden tot ongelovigen die bestreden, of zelfs gedood moeten worden. Zij mogen onder geen beding meewerken aan welk westers systeem dan ook. Westerse democratie en rechtsinstellingen zijn door mensen bedacht; takfiri zijn alleen verantwoording schuldig aan Allah.
- Mohammed B. heeft zich als een voorbeeldige takfiri gedragen. Hij werkte niet mee aan verhoren, boycotte het psychiatrisch onderzoek en wilde zich niet door een advocaat laten vertegenwoordigen."
My rough translation:
- "Takfiri consider people of a different opinion as unbelievers who have to be combatted or even killed. They must under no condition cooperate with any Western system whatsoever. Western democracy and institutions of justice are invented by humans; takfiri only answer to Allah.
- Mohammed B. behaved as an examplar takfiri. He did not cooperate with interrogations, he boycotted the psychiatric investigation and he did not want to be represented by a lawyer."
Mohammed B. is the murderer of Theo van Gogh (film director), and the article is about the attitude of women who had been in contact with Mohammed B., particularly his former girl friend, during the police investigation. -- Jitse Niesen (talk) 12:56, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
- Is this group identical with Takfir wal Hijra, or are they different? It's currently difficult to tell. —Charles P. (Mirv) 06:18, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Takfir wal Hijra
Seems fairly clear to me that someone intended this article to address the Takfir wal Hijra and didn't know much about that movement, so filled up the article with imprecations. This article should be turned into a redirect to Takfir wal Hijra. I don't think there's any real info here that needs to be saved. Zora 18:05, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Merge with Takfir wal Hijra
I'm going to merge any useful material with Takfir wal Hijra and redirect this article within a couple of days, unless I hear objections from other editors. Zora 01:34, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
- No! Takfir wal-Hijra is one specific example of a takfiri organization. This article should be about takfiris in general, not just Takfir wal-Hijra. GCarty 12:27, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
Hmm ... takfiri is just one of the names Muslims call each other ... like munafiq, hypocrite. What movements other than Takfir wal Hijra do you consider takfiri? Zora 12:39, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
- Hmmmm, I'd say Al-Qaeda in Iraq and the Groupe Islamique Armé are also examples of takfiri organizations. GCarty 16:23, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Takfiri Philosophy
Picking up from the above discussion, I think the term 'takfiri' as used between Muslims is more than a generic insult... it has become an important philosophical distinction for Muslims. There are some interesting parallels in Western philosophy. I don't know how appropriate it is to mix between civilizations, but I added links to Consequentialism and from "The ends justify the means" as related concepts. Comments? Spir 07:28, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
