Talk:Swan River Colony/Archive 1

The following text is preserved as an archive of discussions at Talk:Swan River Colony. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on Talk:Swan River Colony. No further edits should be made to this page.

This is the classic case of what the powers that be at wiki central are concerned about - all this information, and not one book cited. It needs at least references to Statham, Cameron, or Ian Berryman for that matter and others to have any vailidity!vcxlor 08:44, 11 August 2005 (UTC) The information does come out of the sky or the ether.

• You yourself have just inserted a pretty big claim without providing a reference. What's your evidence for this, please? Drew Devereux | Talk 11:34, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
• If you are referring to "indentured labourers", then I believe you have misunderstood the term. These were labourers who had their passage to WA paid by their employers, and in return bound themselves to work for their employers, for their keep only, until they had paid off the debt. You may not think much of the labour laws of the time, but to say that indentured labourers were "effectively convict labour" is not accurate. Drew Devereux | Talk 11:41, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Probably if we try one thing at a time. Why no refs? Exteral Links are side issues. Your claim to authority might come from somewhere, but as you say what's your evidence for this please? Your move sir. vcxlor 13:39, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

• I can't say I completely understand what you've written above. But here is my best attempt at a response.

1. "Why no refs?" I agree that references are needed. I don't know why they are absent from the article.

2. "External Links are side issues." I don't understand your point. Neither of us have said anything at all about external links prior to your comment above. Perhaps you think the "a pretty big claim" link above is an external link. It is not; it is a link to your edit in the article history.

3. "Your claim to authority might come from somewhere, but as you say what's your evidence for this please?" I hardly think I'm obliged to provide references for statements made on this talk page, as opposed to the article itself. But I will gladly provide them anyhow. My references for my statements regarding indentured labourers are:

• Appleyard, Reginald Thomas and Toby Manford (1979). The beginning: European discovery and early settlement of Swan River, Western Australia. University of Western Australia Press, Nedlands, Western Australia. ISBN 0855641460.
• Statham, Pamela (1981). Swan River Colony in Stannage, Charles Thomas (ed) A New History of Western Australia. University of Western Australia Press, Nedlands, Western Australia. ISBN 0855641819.

4. "Your move sir." You have inserted a statement into article Swan River Colony with which I disagree; viz. "There were prior to 1850 'forced' immigrants who were brought into the state who were effectively convict labour, but they were not formally recognised as such at the time, nor since by some historians." I have asked you for evidence, and it appears you have declined to provide it. Since it is my move, I have reverted your edit, pending consensus on this talk page. Drew Devereux | Talk 23:58, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Drew, the irony is that csiro leave your biblio out of your phd pdf, yet you can when you want provide your sources. well done. its good to see the pedantry of your phd and your entries is there, it will keep a standard up well above the average wiki entry!

Check out all of the other articles you have contributed to re WA - and how many that do not have a single ref anywhere near them!

I personally dont care if you pull the issue of indentured out, I have never considered any of my entries personal property, as I always expect a 'be bold' guerilla half my age to jump in with uninformed ignorance. The natue of wiki. It looks like a sense of humour is needed with this all!

If you really did want an answer on the issue, go to LISWA catalogue, look for Andrew Gill, and his work, and you will find the answer, to which Pamela Statham and others have conceded privately to Gill that in fact Parkhurst boys were what I am talking about.

If you indeed have your version, go ahead. Why don't you do an article on the Parkhurst issue and I'll take you on about your assertions! I'm out. I have other areas to make a mess of!  :) vcxlor 02:39, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

• CSIRO did not leave my biblio out; it precedes the Appendices. You should be aware that some Wikipedians would consider your tactic of Googling me up and posting your findings intimidatory and highly inappropriate. I always provide references when I make substantial content edits. If you look closely at the edit history of Swan River Colony you will see that my edits to the page are minor; I cannot be held responsible for the absence of references. Of the two of us, only one has attempted to insert substantial content without providing a reference, and it wasn't me. Permit me also to draw your attention to Wikipedia's No personal attacks policy; your insulting and age-ist assessment of me is in breach. The information on the Parkhurst apprentices looks very interesting; I'll get a copy of Gill (2004) from my local library this afternoon. Indeed I may do an article on the Parkhurst issue. Drew Devereux | Talk 04:02, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

• Drew, you have my unreserved apologies for wherever you feel offended.

as I say you are doing a marvelous job, I'm not knocking that. As for your personal issues - I was not deliberately setting out to insult you, it is quite clear that wiki talk has to be so inert as to be cleaner than boiled water!

Also you mis-read age-ist comment, it was not referred to you at all, but earlier parts of my wiki experience from others. I have nothing about 'be bold' from you, I can see your considered approach in some of the articles...

I understand that every article you may choose to tinker with does not mean you necessarily are bound to put the citations in, fair enough. But it is increasingly obvious that many wiki articles have claims to authority with no backup, and of course w.a. entries are among some of the ones that I have checked out. It has become irritating to find only links, and no refs in so many!

It's quite clear from your responses, that I should go through the wiki intro stuff again, I did jump in from the wrong end it seems. Enjoy the rain!vcxlor 04:59, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

• Apology accepted, and I apologise for where I misread your comments. And thankyou for defusing a tense situation. I look forward to working with you on Parkhurst apprentices. Drew Devereux | Talk 05:09, 12 August 2005 (UTC). Oh, and the rain is just great!

• I think I'll email Pam Statham, she's been my lecturer in the past and continues to teach at my university. That should clarify matters. - Mark 04:00, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

• • I have just written article Parkhurst apprentices. Drew Devereux | Talk 05:14, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

The above text is preserved as an archive of discussions at Talk:Swan River Colony. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on Talk:Swan River Colony. No further edits should be made to this page.