Talk:Surrey County Cricket Club

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In 1955, Surrey won 23 of their 28 county matches, a record that stands to date.

Given that there are now only 16 first-class county matches a season, this record will never be broken in raw numerical terms. As a percentage, a county would have to win 14 out of 16 games to eclipse it. I'm not sure which was meant, though, so I haven't edited. Loganberry (Talk) 15:52, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

Darren Bicknell was a fine servant of Surrey, but does he really qualify for the list of Famous Surrey players. Also I see that Mark Butcher and Mark Ramprakash have been added to the list. Should current players be included, given that they already appear in the Current Player list?

JH 20:02, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Isn't it premature to have included a write-up of 2006? In particular this bit seems to be tempting fate: They will be back in Division One of the County Championship next year...

JH 15:35, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A bit POV and where is Jack Hobbs?

The history section of this article says Jim Laker was the finest bowler of his type "of all time". As it happens, I don't disagree, but it is POV nonetheless. What really concerns me is that several members of the appalling England team of the 1990s are singled out for praise in this section and there is no mention of Jack Hobbs. Or of several other great Surrey players of the past such as Lohmann, Richardson, Barrington, Edrich, May, Bedser, Hayward or Abel. If you picked an all-time Surrey XI it would not include anyone from the 1990s. The references to Bicknell and Brown are also POV. --BlackJack | ^{talk page} 20:51, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree that the History section could do with further work, though even so it's better than that for some other counties, in that at least it doesn't only start within the last 30 years or so. Also there's the list of Famous Players, though some of the inclusions (Tom Barling, Darren Bicknell) are a little dubious. (You could argue that such a list by its nature is inevitably POV, but I think it adds to the value of the article.) There are a few Surrey players from the 1990s for whom a case could be made for an all-time XI: Waqar Younis (in competition with Richardson), Saqlain Mushtaq (in competition with Laker) and Alec Stewart as wicketkeeper-batsman. But I'm drifting off-topic. JH 21:18, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

The paragraph about the successes in the 1950s mention only Lock n' Laker. Bedser took more wickets than Laker in the championship years. Tintin (talk) 10:24, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

I decided to resolve my own issue as I was working on the Surrey cricket team article in any case. Well spotted by Tintin re Alec Bedser, who was always underrated and who did not benefit from the notoriously helpful (to Lock and Laker) Oval pitches of the time. John is quite right about some other county articles that are very much post-Botham, as I would wearily expect. They all need attention. I think a list of notable players is fair enough as long as it is a historical list, which this one is, although a few more names should be included: the problem is when you start seeing loads of recent players. I don't think Stewart would make an alltime Surrey XI when the county has had top-class specialist keepers like Lockyer, Strudwick, McIntyre and Swetman. Waqar is a contender, of course. Off the top of my head, I think an all-time Surrey XI might be Hobbs, Edrich, Barrington, Abel, May, Caffyn, Lohmann, Laker, Strudwick, Bedser, Waqar. --BlackJack | ^{talk page} 15:28, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

The strength of Surrey cricket is illustrated by the fact that only Hobbs and May are automatic choices. The batting is hard to choose and the bowling even harder. I reckon that Stewart's batting gains you more than is lost by his keeping, which in any case was a lot better than many gave his credit for. Someone once wrote that Barrington was a more essential part of the England side than he was of Surrey - the tempo of Test cricket seemed to suit him better - but it would be hard to leave him out. My XI, recognising that I could choose a 2nd XI very little inferior, might be: Hobbs, Hayward, Edrich, May, Barrington, Stewart (w), Fender (c), Bedser, Laker, Waqar, Richardson. I haven't chosen Lock because his action in the 1950s was suspect. JH 18:06, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

I've restored Martin Bicknell to the Notable Players list. With over 1000 f-c wickets for the county, I think he deserves his place. JH 18:06, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

I've now read through the revised History section. I like it. The only thing I would query is: "The club captain for most of this period was Percy Fender, whose closest colleague was the England captain of Bodyline fame (or infamy), Douglas Jardine." My memory, possibly incorrect, from reading the excellent biography of Fender by Richard Streeton is that those two didn't see eye to eye. Fender was dumped as captain for the 1932 season by Surrey against his will, as MCC wanted Jardine to get some f-c captaincy experience prior to taking the side to Australia that winter. So "closest colleague" isn't really the right term. JH 18:23, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

I think I must have misremembered, as looking ad David Lemmon's history of the county relations between the two men seem to have beem cordial enough, even if they weren't exactly bosom buddies. JH 09:06, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Surrey Players without Wiki Articles

I've been checking, and the following long list of Surrey players who amassed more than 10,000 runs, 500 wickets or 200 wicketkeeping dismissals for the county don't seem to have an article - or if they do, it doesn't include the "Surrey cricketers" category: RJ Gregory, HS Squires, TF Shepherd, B Constable, JF Parker, DGW Fletcher, GS Clinton, TH Clark, MJ Edwards, SJ Storey, FC Holland, WS Lees, T Rushby, HA Peach, EA Watts, E Barratt, D Gibson, C Griffith (no, not Charlie!), J Street, EWJ Brooks, A Long, EW Pooley, F Stedman, T Lockyer. As and when time permits, I hope to start putting this right, but of course if anyone would like to assist they would be very welcome. JH 20:09, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

It turned out that Walter Lees did have an article after all, but it didn't have a "Surrey cricketers" Category attached. I've put that right, and have gone through all the Test players who played for Surrey to check if there were any more. I found a couple: Frank Druce and Joey Benjamin. JH 10:36, 3 December 2006 (UTC)