Talk:Surrealism

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To-do list for Surrealism:	edit · history · watch · refresh
Add pictures Add references Make this into a featured article! Make History of surrealism - there is lots of material which can go here Add a section on "Contemporary surrealism", or "21st century surrealism" as appropriate Make a Surrealism and media page Double check the sources quoted in the article

Contents 1 First Paragraph Rewrite, Definiton of Surrealism 2 History of Surrealism 3 Surrealism in the Arts rewrite 4 Surrealism in theater correction

[edit] First Paragraph Rewrite, Definiton of Surrealism

Let's see what feedback I get:

Surrealism From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Surrealism, a term coined by Guillaume Apollinaire in 1917, is a concept or philosophy stating that the liberation of the mind, and subsequently the liberation of the individual self and society, can be achieved by exercising the imaginative faculties of the "unconscious mind" to the attainment of a dream-like state different from, or ultimately ‘truer’ than, everyday reality. Surrealists believe that this more truthful reality can bring about personal, cultural, and social revolution, and a life of freedom, poetry, and uninhibited sexuality. André Breton, said that such a revealed truth would be beatific, or in his own words, "beauty will be convulsive or not at all." In more mundane terms, the word "surreal" is often used colloquially to describe unexpected juxtapositions or use of non-sequiturs in art or dialog. When the concept of surrealism has been "applied" by associated groups of indivifduals, it has often been called a “surrealist movement,” whether cultural (including artistic) or social.

What do you all think? Objections?Surreal-one 15:09, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

The first sentence is a bit too long I think. Also, there are too many terms with quotation marks around them. It will be better to add footnotes to them to supplement their meaning. For example, from what I gather, the "unconscious mind" in the surrealist sense, sort of means the part that is just beyond imagination - sort of transcendental. The text from which the term coined by Apollinaire can be added as a footnote as well. That is somewhere in the article. I suggest we replace the first paragraph with this one (if there aren't too many objections), and then do these little fixes. Sound good? --HappyCamper 15:27, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Very good! Can you do these changes? Surreal-one 16:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree with the both of you, but please remember to stay concise and on point. Also, the BEST reference material on Surrealism is by the scholars, Caws, Ades, and Mundy, if you need to review more. Last, but not least, PLACE Yourself in the position of the Student, or Researcher, who is going to go online, type in Surrealism into Google and they get this article; what you should be aware of is HOW they read and understand the article. Please keep Boyer and his ilk on a leash, so they do not keep coming in and vandalizing the process. Noted, the section on Black Surrealism must stay, because that is 100% factual and vital to the article. Clarity, Coherence and a Balance Proportion of Material, will make this the BEST Article on Wikipedia!!!Classicjupiter2 16:06, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

OK! Next week we look into the history. There is a lot of good material in the article already. Still, it needs to be organized better. However, I will research credible sources and cite them if I add material. I will appreciate your editing help. Thanks!Surreal-one 23:10, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, I tried my best. See the edits here. I also removed the entire history section and made History of surrealism. Even that history page is ~12 kB. --HappyCamper 23:37, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Looking Good!Classicjupiter2 23:45, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

May I now suggest that we have SEPARATE wiki articles on "Surrealism in Politics," "Surrealism in Theater," " Surrealism in Film," "Black Surrealism" etc. Then we no longer have everybody adding their favorites and making a continually revised and vandalized article. For example, in politics the place of the Chicago Surrealist Group can be expanded. In "Surrealism in the Arts," Brave Destiny can be mentioned...without fights that make this article here impossible to become "featured." We can list at the bottom of this article that other articles on these sub-topics are available and linked here.Surreal-one 19:26, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] History of Surrealism

There is now History of surrealism - in the main article, there is a section there too. It would be nice to have a 1-2 paragraph summary. Could someone write that please? --HappyCamper 23:38, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Well Done!Classicjupiter2 23:45, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

The idea is to eliminate a lot of material that, if important, can be found in other articles on wiki, such as a list of surrealist techniques, or spin-offs such as the post-WWII Situationalists or Japanese Butoh. Also, after thinking about it, all of the artists and writers and agitators who came after Breton died and claim to be surrealists are part of a new history, only inspired or influenced by the Golden Age (which this article should be about). If the new ones are important, they can have their own article somewhere on wiki and not be in the “History of Surrealism.” That way we can also avoid the many vandal “newbie’s" who want to place themselves in history!!! The core of the history of surrealism died with Breton, although many surrealists who were part of the Golden age continued to live, such as Dali.

To see final rewrite see Rewrite History of surrealism More than 2 paragraphs based on what we had. Remember, a good edit makes everyone unhappy! Opinions please!Surreal-one 16:31, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

REMEMBER! As I think Happy Camper knows, THIS IS AN ARTICLE, NOT A BOOK! It should not be too long, but should summarize the essential and not be too expansive. My book will come out in a couple of years! Surreal-one 17:04, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Hey, that was real good!12.196.6.162 18:22, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

May I now suggest that we have SEPARATE wiki articles on "Surrealism in Politics," "Surrealism in Theater," " Surrealism in Film," "Black Surrealism" etc. Then we no longer have everybody adding their favorites and making a continually revised and vandalized article. For example, in politics the place of the Chicago Surrealist Group can be expanded. In "Surrealism in the Arts," Brave Destiny can be mentioned...without fights that make this article here impossible to become "featured." We can list at the bottom of this article that other articles on these sub-topics are available and linked here.Surreal-one 19:32, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Everything looks fine to me. Please do.Classicjupiter2 23:05, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedians, I think something quite magical is finally happening on these articles! I agree, we should have separate articles as suggested above. It seems that surrealism is too large of a topic to be covered on one page. As a guide for ideas, one example to look at how our mathematics article is structured. And yup, Wikipedia is not a book. --HappyCamper 15:56, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Surrealism in the Arts rewrite

I have started an article Surrealism in the Arts. I will proceed to rewriteSurreal-one 14:54, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Could we try a Surrealism and media page instead? When I think of the "arts", I only think of visual arts, but we might want to include the stuff about television and such. --HappyCamper 15:58, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I just started rewriting this and I was thinking that art, in and of itself, is not classified under "media" but includes the media of television, film, movies, etc. For now I leave media under the category "arts" rather than the other way around. What do you think? Take a look at where I am now: i will post right now to the "Surrealism in the Arts" page. I think that most will like the new section on "Surrealism in the computer age" also. I am still working on it, but am open to ideas. I am sort of at the place where a lot of this is happening in NYC. "My hand is on the pulse of new surrealism." I have to leave for a benefit dinner today for Islamic art, so i will continue tommorrow. Thanks! Surreal-one 17:25, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

P.s.: We could make Arts a separate article from Media, but I am not sure that works either. Media is public transmission of information that also includes much that is not art, and not all art is media.Surreal-one 18:12, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Some thoughts: I've only glanced through the current page. First thought is that it needs Wikification. This is easily done. Maybe I'll parse through it when I get a moment. There's one external dot-com site that uses the material already. Nice that they mentioned Wikipedia. Actually, maybe you're right to put "media" under arts. I think the visual aspect of surrealism is probably more predominant than any other sort of media. Good idea. --HappyCamper 21:30, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

I still want to add some material and continue to edit what is there. Afterward I can wikify. We have plenty of time to finalize, but I think we can have the entire thing done this week!? See you tomorrow!Surreal-one 01:14, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Guys, do me a favor. Don't change the SURREALISM IN POLITICS passage, that is already fine, and factual. Leave it alone, trust me. The other stuff is cool.Classicjupiter2 23:01, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

OK! Seems good enough alreadySurreal-one 01:14, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

OK guys and Gals, I am done with my rewrite on the arts. See Surrealism in the Arts. I am going back to the history and include the "Impact and Critques," since they belong there.Surreal-one 17:18, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

OK, I have finished History of surrealism. If you guys can add the references, links and sources to the bottom of the appropriate pages and if you agree with the edits, we are in business.Surreal-one 17:34, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

So fast! I have a hard time playing catch-up right now. :-) Classic, what do yout think about the new pages? Everyone, I think I'm going to start removing content from the arts sections, now that the material is found over in the Surrealism in the arts page. --HappyCamper 20:36, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

The New Pages are GREAT! You did a wonderful job!Classicjupiter2 22:22, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Hey Mr. Camper! That Mathematics series is super! This comes from a philosophy of logic and epistemology "expert." I learned a few (actually a lot of) thingsSurreal-one 21:17, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Surreal-one, check the spelling on Robert Venosa. By the way, you did a WONDERFUL JOB! Now, lets try to keep this article vandal-free.Classicjupiter2 22:22, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

I noticed that Surrealism (art) redirects to the main page, Surrealism. Shouldn't it redirect to Surrealism in the arts? --Shroom Mage 17:28, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Surrealism in theater correction

I must strongly argue for the removal of Artaud in this category. His theatre of cruelty is a totally different area of theatre--while sharing a few qualities and perhaps having a few similar objectives, the definitions of surrealist theatre provided by Apollinaire in his preface to "Breasts of Tireseus" and Breton in his Manifestos are particularly different than the theatre suggested by Artaud. Compare pictures of past productions for examples.

User:scrycer