Talk:Superman

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Contents

[edit] "Superboy" aspect of history

The Superboy sub-section under Superman's Silver Age history is a little confusing in that, in Post-Crisis history, he never became Superboy. Does anybody else think this should get revised to reflect this? -cnjartist 5:33pm EST 31 May 2006

[edit] Archived Discussion

As of April 19, 2006, the old discussion is archived here. Quote or move any sections that are still relevant. —Matthew0028 08:13, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Keeping this page safe

Some people just keep on mucking this page up when nobody's looking as evidenced by this:

"born in 1988, from crypton, can fly and has a large penis superman aka christopher Byrne has saved the world millions of times. and hes amazin

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman". Let's be on our toes guys. -GeoffB 10:00 4 May 2006

[edit] Infinite Crisis

The first Infinite Crisis section is hard to follow, and has some grammar issues. I'm not entirely certain what happened (as I've not read the comics and I'm having difficulty deciphering this section), so somebody should really fix this. —Matthew0028 07:53, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Talk Page Archival

The talk page is really long. Somebody should archive it. —Matthew0028 07:53, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

...which I took the liberty of doing myself. If there is any ongoing debate that I should have left on the main talk page, feel free to move it back.—Matthew0028 08:13, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Superman storylines

I've created a Category for Superman storylines and made it a sub-category of both [[Category:DC Comics storylines]] and [[Category:Superman]]. Most of the Superman stuff wasn't showing up in any way on the DC storylines page and this corrects that oversight. I've taken the liberty of recategorizing many of the related articles appropriately. CovenantD 22:13, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Future

I've seen info of future Superman comics in DC Comics website. He will recover his powers. Leader Vladimir

Really? I never would have guessed they would want to keep their trademark servicable and recognizable. --Chris Griswold 04:36, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
I think he means we should mention it in the article. Still, it'd be a lot of work. What with the spoiler warning, the referencing, littled specifics to work with, and the thing with thing.... >.> Ace Class Shadow 04:59, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
True, plus, what if it never happens? What if DC decides to go with a new Clark Kent line of comics, leaving Superman to the Hollywood elite? --Chris Griswold 14:05, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
Bah! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!~ That's a good one, Chris. Whoo.. Ace Class Shadow 18:28, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Do we have to show that Superman will recover his powers in the article? That issue hasn't been released yet. Leader Vladimir

Do we show that at the moment? >.> This discussion was effectively over. We will not be mentioning some spoiler or sneak peak from the DC Comics site (at the moment).
So, to answer your question, no. We do not. The Anti-Gnome 22:10, 29 April 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Relativity

Okay. First off, I'm mentioning this here so it'll get the most attention. Now, someone back me up on this, in comics, a character's alternate reality version, especially if they've interacted, should be listed on the "notible relatives" part of their SHB, right? If I'm wrong, no sweat. If I'm right, we've got an arrogant, incorrect little...user...to deal with at the moment. Ace Class Shadow 18:14, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Doomsday

Hey, I didn't know where to put this, but here's as good as any, and it involves the character. letting you know as of my post, doomsday has been vandalised. 66.214.82.168

[edit] Fictional speedsters

I added this category and the change was reverted. Superman is very fast, what's the problem? Tyciol 05:49, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

I just noticed your having done this on Captain Marvel (DC Comics) as well. Speedsters are known for their speed. Superman and some of the other characters you have listed have speed as just one of their powers. --Chris Griswold 07:43, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
In the case of Captain Marvel or Supergirl—who share Superman's speed—I would agree, as super-speed was never really highlighted any more than their other powers. However, Superman's many races against The Flash to prove who was the "fastest man alive" are noteworthy enough to warrant Superman's inclusion in the Speedsters category. Kaijan 23:52, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Footnote numbering

Can someone better than me fix the footnote numbering? Thanks, Dyslexic agnostic 23:20, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sections too large?

I have spent much of tonight editing this article, and it amazed me to see how long the "Clark Kent" and "Powers" sections are. I have condensed both, but the Clark Kent section could be shortened further, some of the concepts important enough to be moved higher in the article. Secondly, the Powers section is long enough to be an article - and guess what? It is. I can't imagine that this much disection is necesary in the main article, when it already provides a link to a full examination. Thoughts? --Chris Griswold 07:09, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Superman's super-speed

I have been long confused with how superman's super-speed is used. For example, can it be used in battles or just for transport ? Take for example superman vs hulk. Wouldnt superman defeat the hulk extremely easily since he could just use his super-speed and then smack the hulk with full strength a couple of times which would stop the hulk ? Does this mean superman cant be hit ?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 202.160.33.239 (talk • contribs).

Superman is FAST! --Chris Griswold 07:51, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Superman CAN use his Superspeed in physical combat- yet, he rarely does so. No explanation has been given for this that I know of (for him OR other superfast strongmen in the DCU). The real answer, of course, is that it makes him invincible when fighting slower opponents. Let's chalk it up to "Superman unconsciously restraining himself" again. Wilfredo Martinez 11:18, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Lets take wolverine fo example. In VS message boards, people have said that because of superman's super-speed wolvrine wouldnt be able to hit superman, which confuses me when much slower characters like batman have defeated superman. How often does superman use his superspeed to dodge or hit quickly oponents ?

Wolverine is a GREAT FIGHTER! --Chris Griswold 11:54, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

I think a great explanation for this is found simply in the revised spoiler section dealing with One Year Later. Supermans powers are implemented as a function of his will; otherwise he would crush and destroy anything he touches. There was a quote in , I beleive, the Superman/ Spider- Man team up where, after Superman gets pounded pretty hard, he comes back and says something to the effect of, "You took me by surprise last time. But when I don't want to be moved, no force on Earth can move me." This would also explain why there are certain times where much less powerful charecter, like Batman, have been able to affect Superman physically. If you look at the, of all things, Worlds Finest episodes of the Superman animated series, Batman is able to perform a pretty gnarly shouldre throw on Superman simply becaue Big Blue had no idea exactly how fast or strong Bruce was. I really beleive that spoiler section hit it perfectly as a way to explain many aspects of how Superman applies his abilities. User:Violet Grey\Violet Grey 15:02, 8 June 2006

Damn! Clark Kent is Praetor! (See FF) Trekphiler 02:05, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Condensing the sharacter biography

Breaking with Wikiproject Comics tradition, I would like to thank WesleyDodds for actually editing down a section on this article I had previously edited and re-written. This user did a great job of cutting out unnecessary information from the Infinite Crisis and OYL sections of the biography, and it's good work. I copy edited the entire article the other night, and I realize now that not only could I have condensed that sections even more, they were fine just to cut. Good call, WesleyDodds. We need to remember that a lot of the detail we have in our articles is unnecessary, and trimming that fat can only improve an article.--Chris Griswold 21:46, 3 June 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Tense

I'm curious to know why this article is written mostly in the present tense, when it describes things that have clearly taken place in the past. DavidNYC 07:29, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

That is how you write about fiction. Fictional events are in present because they happen when you read them. For instance, if I read a copy of Superman #75, the death of Superman is in the present, not the past. See: Wikipedia:Guide to writing better articles#Check your fiction. You will find that Batman is written the same way, as are Superboy (Kon-El), Jason Todd, Superboy-Prime, Spider-Man, and a number of other articles. We are actively trying to address this issue wherever it is found in the comic book articles.--Chris Griswold 08:45, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Capability of superman

Can kryptonite be found easily ? I mean batman has used it against him. I also am still confused with super-man's superbreath. When superman faced thor, i don't see why super-man was actually a match for thor. I mean i know thor is a god, but hey could'nt superman just use his superbreath to stop thor, or use his super-speed to dodge attacks from thor easily or use the super-speed to hit thor quickly without being hit back ? I think their should be a section for limits to super-man's powers because many people are eager to know whether

1. Superman can use his speed in combat - can he use it dodge ? - can he use it to attack quickly ?

2. What can puncture superman's skin ? - What has broken super-man's skin ? - Can marvel's universe alloy's such has carbodanium and adamantium lacerate superman ?

3. Super-intellect, but superman isnt quite smart ? - Batman having only genius iq, and lex luthor has outsmarted the suppodsedly incredibly smart superman

4. Super voice and breath ? - It states that superman cancelled out a nuclear blast with his voice ? Then couldnt he just stop anyone ? - Why couldn't superman freeze doomsday and blow batman away ?


I suggest that it state somewhere than superman can't or is never seen to use all his powers at the same time. Because if he could, then even all the superheroes to exist [ minus pisonics and magicians ] could not even come close to beating superman as his hits would be unaviodable due to his speed, too strong, as he can hurl mountains, and could just blow or freeze krytonite weaponry and his enemies. No one could outsmart him either. So no one is actually a match for superman, unless he is unable to use his powers all at the same time.

Doomsday, batman, lex luthor, thor and the hulk would be too slow to hit or avoid superman's blows and voice/breath, would be to stupid to outsmart superman and couldn't even come near superman because of his super voice/breath and heat vision. Don't you agree ?

This is not a forum, Okay? T-1000 17:56, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Superman CAN use all of his abilities at the same time, and certain issues show him doing this, (flying and using heat vision at the same time, etc.) He is not Ultra Boy of the Legion. The only reason why he might not use everything at once is that maybe he can't focus on more than two or three abilities at a time. For instance he probably doesn't like to use x-ray vision super-speed at the same time, lest he run into something. Maybe its like normal people being unable to walk and chew gum or rub the belly and tap their head at the same time. Who cares.--Wakefencer

[edit] Revised Origin

Whether or not people approve of the series, the factual information is that Superman: Birthright is his revised origin and should remain listed that way in the "First Appearance" bar. Parts of The Man of Steel remain canon, so that should still be listed as his "Modern" first appearance. Keep the "Revised" section with Brithright, because those are the facts.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.112.65.153 (talk • contribs).

OK, so the first appearance should be listed as Man of Steel and his current origin should be listed as Birthright?--Chris Griswold 06:42, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
Wait, you listed it under "Debut", which is the exact opposite of what you just wrote. --Chris Griswold 06:42, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
All I know, is that's how it is always listed in Secret Files 161.38.222.14 00:37, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

-- Assuming that the Birthright Superman is partly a different character, like the Silver Age one was different from the Man of Steel one, I also think Birthright as his origin must stay in the infobox. DrTofu83 13:13, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Who is assuming that? It's the same character; it's just a retcon. It's a much smaller jump than the one Byrne made. Are we going to have to update this every time there is a new change? because what about Infinite Crisis #7? There are further changes from that point on. --Chris Griswold 02:30, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
I agree with Chris. The key thing is that the box says 'first appearance', not 'origin story' - whilst 'Birthright' is a revised origin story, true enough, it doesn't seem to be the first appearance of a completely different era of Superman - just a slightly different beginning for the modern Superman. Technically, the debut of the modern era Superman was in 'Man of Steel', so that is his first appearance.--Joseph Q Publique 12:52, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
Well...
  • Man of Steel Superman is a "Born on Earth" Superman, an embryo born in a Birthing Matrix hatched on Earth in the very moment the Kents found him, whereas Birthright Superman is a Kryptonian Baby, like the Silver Age one
  • Man of Steel Krypton is a cold and sterile planet, so Jor-El and Lara were "emotional throwbacks", whereas Clark has becoming on birthright the beloved son of loving and fully caring parents
  • After Birthright, with the "born on Earth" limitation gone, also other limitations were lifted. Whereas the Man of Steel knowledge of Krypton was fleeting and difficoult, the post-Birthright Superman is an expert on the whole Kryptonian science, from language to technical appliances, like the ancient Kryptonian science, the local philosophy, language, mental disciplines...
  • Birthright Clark was one of the best buddies of a young Lex, whereas in Man of Steel they never knew each other
  • There was the return of a "Mildmannered Clark", in fact, the phoney personality he has to use as a "farmboy in a big city", wereas Man of Steel Clark was sometimes as tough as Superman. After Birthright, the "true" Clark is only the loving husband and the caring son.
  • Birthright Superman is a vegetarian, 'cause he's able to sense the sum of all biological function of people and animals as a "living aura". Man of Steel never exibited such a concern.

So, I still think that Birthright Superman is, if not an utterly different Superman, at least a quite different character, as the Silver Age one was for the Modern Age. DrTofu83 14:16, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

You almost have me convinced. Almost. --Chris Griswold 19:35, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
The Superman that appears in DC Comics today is still the one that debuted with Byrne's Post-Crisis relaunch. Sure, they shoehorned a completely contradictory origin in Man of Steels place, but it's the same history. Anyways, Superman had constant revisions of his origin before Crisis. WesleyDodds 01:23, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Kal-El"'s meaning

Under "Publication history": (Superman's Kryptonian name, "Kal-El," resembles the Hebrew words for "voice of God.")

Under "Cultural influences": It should also be known that Superman's kryptonian name Kal-El translates to the hebrew Kol el, which means "all that is god."

Which is it? --Chris Griswold 04:45, 9 June 2006 (UTC)


I much prefer the Hebrew translation, Kol el, the one that means all that God is...

Not that I'm religious, or a terribly good christian, I AM NEITHER OF THESE THINGS. I just like it, as it fits.

Michael 00:36, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

So, if that's what Kal-El means, what does Jor-El mean? 172.190.47.71 16:22, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New Movie

The movie Superman Returns is out now and in theaters. 06:00, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Guess which article I am avoiding editing until I see the movie. --Chris Griswold 06:33, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] In-line citations

It's just been brought to my attention that this article make absolutely no use of in-line citations. This is a requirement of new featured articles and is probably something that should be done here. CovenantD 22:21, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Superman Pic

i'm should pick the Micheal turner pic instead of the Jim Lee pic. SO IF EVERYONE thinks of turning it back to Jim Lee pic,I'm turning it back!!--user:Tgunn2

I reckon the Jim Lee picture's better, myself. Should we put it to the vote?--Joseph Q Publique 12:48, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
From the simple perspective of good taste, I have to say no to a Turner drawing of Supes. Dear God, the horror. Anyways, I think it's nice that the infobox picture matches with Batman's WesleyDodds 01:26, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Personally, I think it should lead-in image should be replaced with one of Christopher Reeve's as Superman. That or Brandon Routh.--KrossTalk 03:46, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Interesting idea.--Chris Griswold 08:20, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
How about we just post a picture of Jesus flying through the air? WesleyDodds 20:11, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Awesome!!!!!!!!You just flipped my lid!!!!--Chris Griswold 20:43, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
I'm betting in 200 years there won't be much of a difference anyway, except for the suit colors and none of the apostles being as much of a jerk as Batman. WesleyDodds 20:51, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Wonder Woman will be known as a whore. --Chris Griswold 20:56, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

The picture should be something more iconic than that Lee image. I suggest the cover to Superman #1.Rhindle The Red 19:15, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

I think using a picture of how he currently looks is better. I also like the idea about using Reeve or Routh. Havok (T/C/c) 19:29, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

How about this image?--KrossTalk 18:45, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

As much as I loved the Christopher Reeve & Brandon Routh Superman movies, I do not think either is appropriate since this is the article about the comic book version of the character. Now, as to which artist's rendition should be used, how about somethink from Alex Ross? That would be money.--Cnjartist 20:41, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

No. There's enough Ross on Wikipedia to satisfy any fetishist. CovenantD 20:58, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
Good point.--Cnjartist 21:01, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes. But, Alex Ross has been one of the few creators to really nail Superman's character in his paintings.DarthAlbin 02:50, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
Besides, everyone knows Reeves was the one true Superman. Everyone else are just understudies. ;)--KrossTalk 21:07, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
DC's rewrite of Superman's origin with Man of Steel and Birthright make the Reeve portrayal a bit antiquated. In my opinion, WB should have started anew with the Superman movies as they did with Batman (Batman Begins). However, with Reeve dying recently, continuing with the antiquated Reeve portrayal became politically-correct.DarthAlbin 02:50, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
I'm not entirely sure that it is an actual sequel. I remember a thing or two contradicting the previous movies, but I can't remember what. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 07:03, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
But that counts for the MOVIES only, not the COMIC BOOKS. How much more does it need to be spelled out. Last time I checked Reeves (both George & Christopher), Routh, Cain, and any other actors who portraied the Man of Steel are people and not drawings created by an artist and printed monthly in various comic books by DC. So please, for the love of Krypton, please stop with the "let's use a photo of [Enter actor's name here] for the main image of the article. Now, if you want to suggest an image of Superman that was created by a comic book artist then knock yourself out.--Cnjartist 21:35, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
I was joking. Take a stick out.--KrossTalk 03:51, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
Sorry, I was listening to Lewis Black while I was typing that.--Cnjartist 04:14, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Looks fine right now. Matches Batman. Personally, I think some artists, including Ross, make Superman look ugly. Namely the one who made one of the more recent covers with Supes in orbit. ACS (Wikipedian) 23:20, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I think the Jim Lee art for the photo is great. But can we vote for a new one? --Hokgwai 04:34, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] superman documentery!

WB has a documentery on superman. [1]. Also due out on DVD june 20th. Bud0011 19:05, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] fixed vandalism

Someone changed the article to claim that Superman was a real person who was featured on the Real World. MasterGrazzt 02:28, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

I thought that was true. Didn't he put his dirty finger in Pedro Zamorra's peanut butter? --Chris Griswold 13:28, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
Probably a Robot Chicken fan (c.f., The Real World: Metropolis). Oh, and I think the peanut butter incident happened in the Judd Winick-penned Superman, Pedro, and Me crossover book. GentlemanGhost 08:56, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Actually, while I admire some of the show's work, in many ways, I don't think it's very funny or well-executed. It's trying to be Family Guy in a lot of ways, but it's much clumsier. --Chris Griswold 21:21, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

It happened again. It said superman was a real person and one of the worst superheroes. He was also created by George Bush. I was going to fix this but someone beat me to it. Thats good I suppose. --Redslap 00:03, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Reign of the Super-man

Check it out at: http://superman.ws/seventy/reign/ Doberdog 08:49, 19 June 2006 (UTC) Doberdog

[edit] External links

There are just too many links, Wikipedia is not a link repository. Havok (T/C/c) 07:25, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

So which ones should we eradicate? --Joe Sewell 16:29, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Here is the list now. The ones with a line trough I feel should be removed.

Feel free to argue why "X" should be kept and so forth. Havok (T/C/c) 19:54, 26 June 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Two dumb questions

  • Did Superman / Clark Kent go to college? If he didn't, how'd he get that reporter job? I could see a cub reporter getting hired straight out of high school back in the 1930s but not nowadays..
  • Can Superman's trademark primary-colored costume be attributed to the fact that back in the 1930s printing solid red, blue, and yellow was way easier than, say, printing green, magenta, and orange? :-) RevWaldo 20:56, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
1. World of Metropolis #3 shows Clark going to college... no idea if he did Pre-Crisis or not.
2. No idea Dlong 02:08, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
He went to college pre-Crisis. That's where he changed his identity from Superboy to Superman, and where he met Lori Lemaris. WesleyDodds 10:49, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Colors. Very probable. Recall, 4-color printing left very little leeway. Also, recall especially, comics were an extemely new medium in 1938, & color was a major novelty, so colorists wouldn't be nearly as sophisticated as even the '70s. Compare, for example, X-Men 108, with the ghostly portrait of Jean. That is subtle, subtle coloring. Trekphiler 02:10, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Character history

Under character history, the section begins: "As portrayed in Action Comics #1, Superman was born on the planet Krypton and rocketed to Earth as an infant by his scientist father moments before the planet's destruction."... however the scan I have of Action Comics #1 makes no mention of Superman even being an alien... this should be corrected. Dlong 02:39, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

In action comics #1 the Kents take him to the orphanage first, then adopt him the next day. The passing off baby Kal-El as their own was a silver age innovation.--Wakefencer


Im was wondering can we have a page on what happen to blue and red superman that would be nice --user:Supermike

[edit] Superdickery

I put a comment about Superman being a dick in the "personality" section. someone deleted it immediately. Why? This is a popular meme, see http://www.superdickery.com/galleries.html I think it is a valid inclusion. Should we keep it, people? Your opinion please. Harry Mudd 02:52, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

-Its a nice thing to have in external links, and its rather funny, but it shouldn't be in personality. Superman isn't actually a "dick," its just a silver age tendency to have strange covers in an attempt to make people buy the books to see what happens.--Wakefencer

You have my support for adding it to the links. But it doesn't belong in the article. (Actually...) 24.126.199.129 11:11, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

You shouldn't say he's a dick but the site is big enough to warrent being mentioned.

[edit] Truth, Justice and the American Way

I've noticed watching the animated Superman shorts (currently on Refrederator's vBlog 26-30 June 2006) that the introduction is "Truth and Justice" rather than "Truth, Justice and the American Way" It would be nice if the article addressed and explained this change. --Don Hosek

I thought the change was introduced in the early 50s (with the George Reeves TV show, don't know about radio) when fear of communism dominated the American culture. I'd like to see the real answer as well. HalJor 03:38, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale

The images lacks fair use rationales. This is a requirement for a featured article. Please fix this. --Maitch 11:09, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Can you please explain what you mean? --Chris Griswold 12:38, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
The images are old, that's why. However, it is obvious they are comic panels, so they fall within fairuse. T-1000 22:44, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
Give me a day or so and I will sort this. Steve block Talk 22:43, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
I've done three, there's four to go, but I can't see why Image:Action Comics 837 - Luthor and the Memorials.jpg is being used in the article. The rest of the images all illustrate issues or points discussed within the article, but I can't work out what this relates to. Can someone tell me what point it is illustrating, otherwise it'll have to be removed. Steve block Talk 23:26, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Daily Planet / Star

There have been some edits/reverts concerning the sentence:

Clark Kent, a reporter for The Daily Star (later changed to The Daily Planet)

Several people, including myself, have swapped it so that it reads:

Clark Kent, a reporter for The Daily Planet (originally called The Daily Star)

and it's been reverted. Now ChrisGriswold has placed a comment saying "<!--Leave in this order-->". So.. why? I'm no comic book guru, but on Wikipedia don't we report what is first, and then describe what was? I mean we don't say "Henry Johns is a senator (who later became the president)" - we say "Henry Johns is the president (who started out as a senator)". I vote we change it back to the latter (above), but obviously can't do it without a discussion first. —EatMyShortz 02:01, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

My reason for this is that we are describing the Golden Age Superman, not the Earth-Two one, but the actual character as published in the 1903s-`40s. Actually, if that part about rocketing to Earth is still attributed to Action Comics #1, that really ought to be re-attributed as well. --Chris Griswold 03:24, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Forget Earth-2, the original script had it Daily Star. Whether it got to print that way in Action #1, I can't say (I've never seen that ish...), but that's how Jerry wrote it. Trekphiler 02:13, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Smallville vs Comics

I'm not even sure this belongs here, but here goes: When comparing Lana and Lois to the comics movies, it's interesting to note that Smallville Lana looks like Lois in other portrayals, and Smallville Lois looks like Lana in other portrayals. Just needed to get that off my chest. Nariel 02:01, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

We're here for you. --Chris Griswold 03:26, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Is there a significance to that? Nariel 19:08, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Actually, there is a BIG resemblance between the Smallville Martha Kent and the Superman III Lana Lang. DarthAlbin 02:55, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

If you squint, green apples look like unripened tomatoes. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 04:35, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't see any resemblance between Annette O'Toole & K Callan. And wasn't she still married in "L&C"...? (BTW, both are unhistoric. Clark was an orphan in Jerry's original script... Trekphiler 02:18, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Symbol of Imperialism

I was trying to add the fact that Superman is a symbol of imperialism in Cuba. I don't know where it would go. Does anyone have a suggestion? --C5mjohn 02:21, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

First, I feel I need to ask if you can cite a source for that tidbit.--Chris Griswold 08:10, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
On 60 Minutes - "Che Guevara was yesterday, Elian Gonzalez is today. And that’s precisely how Cuba is playing him. In what’s called the Museum of Ideas in Cardenas, he has already been cast in bronze as the revolutionary hero preparing to throw Superman — in Cuba a symbol of imperialism — onto the rubbish pile of history." [2]--RevWaldo 15:01, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Thanks RevWaldo, I should have put it in my original comment. They actually showed the bronze statue with the Superman in his hand on the show. I was shocked when I heard it, but the video made it obvious. Here is another source with a picture. http://www.hellocuba.ca/itineraries/441Museum_of_ideas.html --C5mjohn 20:44, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
That is really cool. Good idea! --Chris Griswold 21:11, 6 July 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Loss of Powers

Everybody understands that Superman lost his powers and recovered them. But why he lost his powers in first place? It was because he was exposed to the Red Son of Krypton, or just because he just wanted to live a normal life?. Leader Vladimir

He lost them because of the red son, but they remained gone because he subconsciously wanted them to stay gone. --Chris Griswold 05:15, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Documentary

Thought this might interest you guys: http://www.aintitcoolnews.com/display.cgi?id=23529

plange 14:41, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
I was surprised to find that a two-hour commercial costs $20 to own. --Chris Griswold 19:13, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
? It's a documentary on the whole Superman franchise....Goes through the radio stuff, etc...plange 19:54, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes, it's narrated by Kevin Spacey, and it leads to about 20 minutes of preview material for the new movie. I was surprised it wasn't a bargain bin item or a giveaway. I suspect that it will be, before long. --Chris Griswold 23:45, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Birthright in Debut box

Since DC has dubbed Birthright as the canon origin for Superman, I really think it should be placed under Modern debut (along with MoS) or be given it's own slate under a "Revised" section. As an encyclopedia, the information would not be out of place. CmdrClow 02:43, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

See the discussion above. DC has revised Superman's origin countless times, but only once have they started the character's history over from scratch. WesleyDodds 03:25, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Evil Origins

I remember reading before that originally Superman was a villian of sorts, but I cant find any refrences to it anymore.Was I mistaken, or was this possibly vandalism or someone making a confused post? 209.169.111.193 SomeGuyNamedSean

It's still there: Superman#Publication history. --Chris Griswold 05:02, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Double Checking

Hi, my name is Sam and I'm new to the editing process on Wikipedia. I added a picture of Superman by Darwyn Cook and just wanted to make sure I wasn't crossing any lines. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by SamwiseG (talk • contribs) at 07:03, July 29, 2006 (UTC)

Well, Samuel, signing your comments would be a good way to help. Use four Tildes. As for your image, it apparently has not source info. Also, it looks a lot more like Golden Age Supes. ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 06:10, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Superdickery

Should this site be mentioned at all? It might be relevant to a degree to talk about his public modern image and perception. Kentmann 06:09, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Navbox Guidelines

Please follow this link Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Comics/templates/navboxes to join in on the discussion . --Basique 12:14, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Best Article?

Okay, I personally think this article needs some cleaning up. The majority of it is about previous sections and philosophical debates on his character. What's happening in superman's life today? Why isn't the fact the he brutally beat down on Batman and Wonder Woman mentioned at all? In fact the Infinite Crisis section hardly recounts his role in it at all. I actually think sections of this article could be deleted entirely. They just aren't pertinent to the character. And why does his secret Identity have its own section? This makes no sense, they are the same people and should be covered in the same article. Simply put, I think this article has a long way to go before it can be counted among the best written by the wiki community.Jupiterzguy 02:18, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Great! I am excited about your participation! This article is a Featured Article, which does mean it is considered one of the best-written articles on Wikipedia; however, if you feel it needs work, please do feel add the information you feel is missing. Thanks! --Chris Griswold 04:49, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
Wow...I sounded really bitchy up there didn't I? I apologize for that, but I still think the article needs more emphasis on current events. It seems to be based more on how Superman is perceived and his legend than about the character himself. Jupiterzguy 02:18, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
That is the thought behind some of these articles, that they are to give an overview of the character and not to focus more on recent publications than on old ones, which they tend to do; however, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't add what you think belongs in the article. I'll work with you to make the improvements you think need to be made. I do think Superman's beating of Wonder Woman and Batman is important to note; it speaks to the changes in tone of the comics and the dire straits the characters were in prior to the I.Crisis. Oh, and thanks for the apology. Apologizing's a great skill that a lot of editors could work to improve. I don't think you're bad person at all; you seem to want this article to be better. So let's team up. --Chris Griswold 01:26, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Psychokineticist?

Hi, noting this at User talk:ChrisGriswold's prompting. Superman used telekinesis in one of the Chris Reeves movie to rebuild the great wall of China. Also, don't some of the Superman's powers explanations (which may have been retconned or contradicted) explain his powers as psionic - a bit like tactile telekinesis? Just clarifying, input thanks. ~ZytheTalk to me! 21:25, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I remember one of John Byrne's first stories explaining that Superman flew by some kind of psychic power, including the ability to hold together that which he was carrying -- if he's carrying an ocean liner or a huge pile of dirt, something must be preventing it from breaking apart in midair. So in a sense, this might be true, but I personally wouldn't have included Superman in this Category. HalJor 21:53, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
OK, well I discussed it with ChrisGriswold and suggested the idea of Category:Characters with psionically enhanced strength to encorporate most of the Category:Superman pastiches, Category:Kryptonians and a few others from TV, film and other comics. The category would itself be a subcat of Category:Fictional psychokineticists.
Right, but not all the characters you mentioned dealt specifically with strength. Thereis something to be said about characters whose powers are enhanced or dependent upon belief in them; Gladiator's powers, for instance, only work if he believes in himself. The Marvel Norse Gods and the DC Greek Pantheon derive power directly from humanity's belief in them. I wasn't completely clear on the Willow Rosenberg part. --Chris Griswold 01:57, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
In season six, to defeat Buffy, she channelled her power into superhuman strength. I suppose that's more mystical than psionic though. ~ZytheTalk to me! 12:55, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I've detailed more extensively what my proposal is. Please read it here: User:Zythe/Project, and contribute any ideas before I implement it. Thank you. ~ZytheTalk to me! 17:00, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Disputed text

Recently added text:

The story of Superman's origin parallels those of other cultural heroes and religious figures such as Jesus, Moses, or Samson who were spirited away as infants from places where they were in danger. ... These changes are intended to retain the core elements that make Superman an iconic character.

This text should be removed. It is originial, uncited research. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 21:37, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Here is the text Chris keeps blanking.

The story of Superman's origin parallels those of other cultural heroes and religious figures such as Jesus, Moses, or Samson who were spirited away as infants from places where they were in danger.

However, facts of his origin, as well as relationships and abilities, have changed significantly over time. Editors and writers used the process of "retroactive continuity", or "retcon", to adjust to changes in popular culture, eliminate restrictive segments of the mythos, and permit contemporary storylines. These changes are intended to retain the core elements that make Superman an iconic character.

Wikipedia is a place to improve article text, not remove it because you have an opinion about it. —scarecroe 22:16, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
Also, here are some sources as Superman as a Christ figure: [3], [4], [5], [6], [7] Perhaps a new section is in order? —scarecroe 22:19, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
Go for it. But please do cite it. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 23:54, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Vast" Superhuman Strength

The word "vast" keeps getting addded to "superhuman strength" in the infobox, which doesn't add anything -- isn't superhuman strength "vast" enough already? I've reverted this edit several times, and I know I'm not alone in that. Do we have a consensus on whether it belongs or not? I say "no". HalJor 23:13, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

I doesn't. We discussed this recently at the WikiProject talk page. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 19:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
Can you provide a link? Never mind -- I found it in Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Comics/Archive16. I don't fully understand, and it would have been nice if someone would have mentioned this in an Edit Summary so I didn't waste my time reverting edits from someone with a spotty history, so I'll just go back to work now. HalJor 20:12, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Superman Blue

Can we get some more info on Superman Blue/Red in this article? It lasted a year or so, and it's in a large number of comics, so I think it's important enough to mention, at least what the character's circumstances are duing that time. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 06:09, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Death?

I would just like a little bit of clarification in this article. How was doomsday able to kill him? He possessed neither magic nor kryptonite, but superman clearly died from this encounter. And how was doomsday defeated anyway? Shouldn't he just keep coming back after he's killed? Jupiterzguy 02:43, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

It's quite simple. They beat each other to death, and both of them came back (just not at the same time). The question should really be: How did they come back? I don't recall the answer to that one. HalJor 03:49, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
The Phantom Stranger explains it at the very end of the "Reign of the Supermen" storyline. It has to do with several things: Superman's body continued to store solar radiation as his body lay dead, the Eradicator put the body in the birthing matrix in which Superman arrived on earth, Pa Kent had a heart attack and convinced Superman to return to life, and ...magic? I can't remember. I do know for certain that PS said that it CAN NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN. So, give it another 20 years and then people will be nostalgic for black blood. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 07:38, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Can Superman father a child?

Is it just me or does this whole article smack of original research? Whispering(talk/c) 18:22, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

The comics section is all sourced appropriately. The movies and death of sections appear to refer to events found in available media. I suppose those could use some more off-site citations. —scarecroe 23:13, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
I cut the majority of the film section. I seem to recall a much better intro on the section. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 06:17, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
This section in particular lacks discussion outside the comics (in particular, a certain film adaption). Though it's not cannon within the comic books, it still deserves mention as this article is not just about the character as seen in comics (is it?). —EatMyShortz 14:28, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Grouping "Additional Reading"

The "Additional Reading" list includes both comic stories (Superman For All Seasons, Kingdom Come) and prose works (Last Son of Krypton, Ubermensch). I think it would help to separate the list into groups along these, or similar, lines -- I just don't know what they should be called. (The list could be a little shorter, too -- some of the comic entries are debatable.) Any suggestions, yea or nay? HalJor 07:56, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sleep?

Does Superman sleep? That was the question I came to leaving the theatre for Superman Returns, as he doesn't appear to need to sleep. The part of the article listing his powers doesn't have an answer to this. SchmuckyTheCat 02:41, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

That's a good question..I have not heard anything relating to Superman and requirement for sleep - hopefully someone can shed some light on this one --Mikecraig 04:48, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Protection request

I request that we protect this page and the Power/Abilites until the dispute is resolved. T-1000 04:39, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Can't get a date

I question the 1932 date. Les Daniels, in DC Comics : sixty years of the world's favorite comic book heroes (Boston, MA : Little, Brown and Co., 1995; ISBN 0821220764), says 1933; the 1932 character was not the same one later in Action; & Marvin Gardiner, then Editor in Chief at National (as I believe it was then) bought the original story, for the legendary $130, which cost them the rights to the character. Has anybody got solid confirms? Trekphiler 02:37, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Or not. The editor was Vin Sullivan... Trekphiler 03:41, 13 October 2006 (UTC) (He bought Bats, too...)

[edit] We're not in KS

Can anybody say for sure if Smallville was originally in Illinois, not Kansas? I recall seeing a "DC Universe" that said so... Trekphiler 02:52, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Superjew

I added the "Roberto Duran" ;-) piece, based a a TV doc on Jews in entertainment industry that raised the ish. The mask law was passed to stop Klan rallies, but it's still on the books (as far as I know); this is 1 reason "Spidey's an outlaw. Trekphiler 03:23, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Canadian born"

I'm not sure why "born" changes that sentence. Had he bcome an American citizen by that time? --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 15:39, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gettin' some Action

I think it was Daniels, but it said Action#1 had a first print run of 200K, & ultimately sold 500K--& this w Supes as a backup story to a magician, Zatara... And the book was only bimonthly to start with. Also, Superman debut after the Supes strip. Anbody think it's worth including? Trekphiler 05:44 & 05:49, 14 October 2006 (UTC) I added:

"as a backup story to the magician, Zatara, created by Fred Guardineer; a newspaper strip started in January of 1939, followed by the eponymous Superman book that summer."

and:

"scarcely unusual in a period when writers and artists were paid a minimal by-the-page rate."

Trekphiler 06:02, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Old Kryptonite

Can somebody confirm the date of intro? Daniels says it was 1945, not 1943, & originally created for an unpublished 1940 story. Trekphiler 07:02, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Not knowing who or what "Daniels" is, I cannot comment on the accuracy therein, but it disagrees with what's cited at The K-Metal From Krypton: The Most Important Superman Story Ever Written. --Joe Sewell 16:43, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
Daniels is a little boy who is also a fuzzy tigerbot. He says silly things. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 06:24, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
The pictures in Daniels' books are fantastic, but all of the words should be taken with a large bucket of salt and verified elsewhere. Macduff 05:54, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Adding other Superman Actors

I notice that Dean Cain is not on the list of superman actors, shouldnt he be on there?

He's there with the others, in the first paragraph under "Superman in Popular Culture". HalJor 17:53, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] first super hero

is superman the first superhero? if not then who is? please reply. i think it is superman who was the first. i want to not know about the comic, but of the hero,

superman was created in 1932 compare with this date.

[edit] Trivia

I am adding a trivia section. I think this is revelant to the history, development and "culture" of the character. IE. Superman's "s" curl which is always depicted on his forehead. --Hokgwai 02:28, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Please do not add a trivia section. This is a featured article. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 02:49, 21 October 2006

(UTC)

ChrisGriswold, could you be so kind to illuminate why "trivia" is not relvant to this article? It could be considered broad, but I believe there are items which are relevant to the character's origin, design, history and depiction. If trivia is not allowed then please suggest an appropriate place the notation of Superman's "S" hair curl. If it is relevent enough that it is depicted in just about every representation of the character in comics, animation, movies and television it should be relevant enough to place in this article. Thank you for your keen attention in keeping this article honest.--Hokgwai 04:52, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

If it is relevent, it should find a home in the article. If this article's Featured status is ever questioned, the trivia sections will be one of the first things to go based on editor comments. If you want to make sure your contributions are secure in an article, you would best to avoid adding them to a trivia section. I am currently working on a proposal to handle trivia on a sister site. Here, take a look at WP:TRIVIA. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 07:32, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] black Superman?

Is there an African American incarnation of Superman? I'd once heard that there was, but it wasn't in the article.192.231.128.68 01:54, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps from an alternate universe, but nothing truly notable. Maybe you're thinking of Icon? HalJor 02:52, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
You're thinking of Steel, a character who put on a robotic suit of armor in homage to his hero Superman, after the Death of Superman storyline. There was even a movie, starring Shaquille O'Neal. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 04:49, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
Oh, and there's also Sunshine Superman, a black Superman from hippie-cultured "Earth-17" of the DC Comics multiverse, who appears in Grant Morrison's Animal Man run. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 04:51, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
Don't forget the black Superman of Earth-D, who appeared in a story by Marv Wolfman and George Perez which was printed in Legends of the DC Universe and took place between the fourth and fifth issues of Crisis on Infinite Earths. --Ace ETP 21:42, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
Justice Alliance of America. With the Flash AKA Tanaka Rei,Batman and Robin are father and son, black Supergirl who was the wife to Superman, Green Arrow an American Indian, Hawkman and Hawkgirl brother and sister, Green Lantern AKA Jose Hernandez, Aquaman weird appearance.I got that from the Internet and [8] in which you click on obscure characters and then click J and the rest. You find the Justice Alliance of America!!!! Brian Boru is awesome 23:05, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hayden Christensen as Superman?

I read a romour somehere,maybe on wekipedia that Hayden Christesen was a candidate for the man of steel in Superman Returns,but wanrer bros pulled him out of the line because they felt it wouldn't look right for the same guy who played Darth Vader to be Superman? Is this true?Does anyone know anything aobut this or any comments made by Hayden Christensen on being cast as Superman?Nadirali 08:32, 12 November 2006 (UTC)Nadirali

That was a rumour, yes. But it wasn't in Superman Returns, it was in some of the older cancelled incarnations. Go here for information: Canceled Superman films. —EatMyShortz 14:29, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Bizarro" was a villian???

Regarding the statement: "Also, Superman villain Bizarro inspired a jazzy Michael Daugherty piece of music of the same name."


I haven't followed Superman for several decades... I stopped paying attention to the Superman comics when the art style changed for the worse sometime around the late 60's.

But if I remember, Bizarro Superman wasn't considered a "villian" at all; he was just misplaced in our world, as Superman was in his ??? Was there another Bizarro? ...If so, the article might make the distinction. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gloryroad (talk • contribs) 15:35, 10 December 2006 (UTC).

He's definitely an antagonist to Superman, which isn't synonymous with being a villain, but he certainly is that much of the time. WesleyDodds 15:00, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

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