Talk:Superman (1978 film)

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No mention of the movie winning the 1979 Hugo award at Seacon in Brighton, England? Odd. --JohnDBuell | Talk 00:41, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Specifically it was the "Hugo Award for Best Dramatic Presentation." --JohnDBuell | Talk 00:46, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 Correct me on the Mentioning of the Animated Series 2 The Earth does NOT spin backwards.... 3 Otis 4 "Unrelated" Sequel? 5 Canon/adoption? 6 Suspected copyright violations 7 Oxford Scientific Films 8 Synopsis Overlong 9 Missing DVD Technical Referance 10 Article title 11 DVD Bonus Features 12 Why say Superman Returns is a sequel? 13 General Zod character 14 Which is Richard Donner's preferred version? 15 Three acts?

[edit] Correct me on the Mentioning of the Animated Series

Now I happen to be a major fan of that Awsome cartoon from the 90's, but What I am unclear about is where it says in the reaction section "The movie's legacy includes numerous television series, notably Superboy (produced, like the movie, by Alexander Salkind), Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman, Superman: The Animated Series, and the current prequel series, Smallville, which have all been influenced by the movie to some extent." Now I can understand how the live action Superboy series, Lois & Clark, and Smallville are clearly influenced by this film, but What exact Inspiration is there in the Animated Series with THIS MOVIE. Because that Cartoon Presents itself to be FAR Different from what you compare to this movie. Some examples would be the plot development with some of the supporting characters like Keeping BOTH the Kent Parents, and the Portrayal of some of the better comic book vilians the superman faces. So What Are THE Similarities? Nathen

[edit] The Earth does NOT spin backwards....

... it just looks that way because he is going back in time. Honestly, we have two possible interpretations, one of which makes sense and the other of which is completely ridiculous. Why would anyone favour the second one? Admittedly they did an extraordinarily poor job of explaining it (I think the audience was supposed to get it based on Jor-El's warning not to interfere with history, but that was much too subtle). But, that doesn't make the nonsense interpretation "obviously" right.

Therefore, I'm un-reverting this change. If someone disagrees, that's fine but I think this interpretation should at least be mentioned somewhere. (Also, the reversion also put back a grammatical error I fixed. Like the guidelines say, if you're going to revert, avoid collateral damage.)

Refresh my memory - when he's done "spinning it backwards", does he not then appear to "spin it back forwards"? Also, do you have any evidence of this from the script, or is this a personal theory? --Golbez 22:03, July 20, 2005 (UTC)

Well, unfortunately for both of us, the publically available shooting script doesn't have that scene at all. Superman rescues Lois on the first try. (Everything else from Tessmacher rescuing Superman onwards pretty much proceeds as per the finished movie.) I'd welcome a look at the final script, or a look at interviews with someone like Salkind. It just seems to me that there are two explanations on the table, and one is ridiculous, so the other should be preferred, even if it seems less obvious to most people.

Having said that, I reiterate that if someone wants to re-edit the page so that part is worded less strongly, I don't really have a problem with that, but I do think the interpretation I brought up should at least be mentioned.

How is it any more ridiculous than a baby from another planet having super powers? ;) I'll try to slip it in. --Golbez 05:20, July 22, 2005 (UTC)

That's just a genre convention; a better point would be that it requires a selective reading of Einsteinean physics for the alternative to work. Let me stay instead that one explanation is, by a very large margin, more ridiculous than the other.

.......................... From the published story, Lex, Otis, and Eve, learn of Superman's weaknesses (he is unable to see through lead, and he is vulnerable to the substance Kryptonite), and Luthor finds out that a meteorite of the needed mineral is available at Addis Ababa. A

Did he really tell them that in the interview? A major lack of discretion!

In the interview with Lois, Superman said he was from Krypton and could not see through lead. He did not say anything about vulnerability to kryptonite, Lex Luthor deduced that somehow. Luthor's "explanation" to his moronic underlings about kryptonite being lethal only to Superman because of "the specific level of radiation" is scientific nonsense, but they had to come up with something. As far as "turning back the world", Superman can fly faster than the speed of light when he puts his mind to it, as per the comics. In fact there's something about flying "clockwise" vs. "counterclockwise" depending on which direction in time he's going, and that is visually alluded to on-screen, as he flies one direction around the globe to go backwards in time, and the other direction to go forwards (having apparently overshot his stopping point initially, or whatever). The fact that he could fly faster than the speed of light at that point, but was only able to catch up with one of the two rockets a little while earlier, is another slight hole in the plotline. Either that, or he can't exceed light speed unless he's really annoyed. Wahkeenah 00:51, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Otis

I'm pretty sure that Otis is not a comic-inspired character but why does he work for Lex Luthor? I mean, I can't see any way that he does.

(65.4.232.187 20:24, 11 August 2006 (UTC))

• Luthor asked himself that same question: "Why am I surrounding myself by total nincompoops?" By so doing, at least he doesn't have to worry about anyone intellectually challenging him. Wahkeenah 22:51, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Unrelated" Sequel?

The movie led to three theatrical sequels, Superman II (1980), Superman III (1983) and the non-related Superman IV: The Quest For Peace (1987); and inspired the Salkind-backed 1984 follow-up, Supergirl.

This has got to be a mistake (or the work of a vandal). Supergirl is the unrelated one, Superman IV is no more "unrelated" than III was to II. --Do Not Talk About Feitclub (contributions) 11:20, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Canon/adoption?

Can we have a section on material from the movie that was original, and not part of the original comic book's canon? For example, Lex deducing kryptonite, Superman being able to time travel, etc. Also, I remember in the movie that he was unable to lie, is that right? It seems that that would be at odds with maintaining a secret identity. Also, I've heard that several conventions from the movie were later carried over into the comic book titles (Jor-El wearing the superman symbol on Krypton, Clark and Superman parting their hair on opposite sides). --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 15:15, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Superman doesn't lie, but Clark Kent apparently does. Another way to look at it is that the Clark disguise is to enable him to find out about trouble in the world without being too conspicuous. So he justifies it on that basis. Maybe Superman doesn't "lie", but he "rationalizes". Time travel was part of the comics long before it was used in the movie. It was based on somewhat flawed interpretations of Einstein's laws. However, if the casual reader can accept that a man can fly just by jumping into the air, then anything is believable. Wahkeenah 16:55, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Suspected copyright violations

I'm reverting numerous plot sections of Superman articles due to copyright violations by 64.123.114.194, and while I've found the sources for Superman 2 and 3 (supermanhomepage.com), there was a recent (Dec 9) substantial plot update here that I haven't found the source of, in case this one is a copyright violation as well. Googling just left me with several Wikipedia mirrors for it. So just a heads-up in case someone wish to check this further. -- Jugalator 23:21, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

You should revert the whole bloody essay that guy pasted in there. It reads not so much like someone simply describing the film, but like a critic's extended review. So either it's ripped off, or it's original research laced with Point-of-View, and either way it has to go. One thing that caught my attention was how it jumped over the 7 minutes (or whatever) of opening credits without even mentioning them.... a dead giveaway that something's fishy here. Wahkeenah 00:07, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Without someone posting permission, this is a copyright violation. Even without this, it's blatant plagiarism. The original is here. I've reverted it. JRM · Talk 01:38, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

• Pathetic, ain't it? Bravo for reverting it. Wahkeenah 01:45, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

  If you're not familiar with the procedure, see Wikipedia:Revert. Anyone can and should do this when they can justify it on the talk page (as you did). Be bold. If you're concerned about someone overriding your judgment, just respect the one-revert rule and you'll be fine. JRM · Talk 02:02, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

  I might have done it, but I figured you were on top of it, and you found the reference, so you get the gold star. :) Wahkeenah 04:25, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Oxford Scientific Films

On the DVD commentary Donner says Oxford Scientific Films did the high speed effects photography for the Krypton Sun. Worth adding.

[edit] Synopsis Overlong

I have added a Cleanup message template starting at the Synopsis section heading because the synopsis itself is way, way overlong. Is the purpose of this article the actual retelling of the movie, or the encyclopedic analysis of the movie? Darcyj 04:45, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Have started to copy-edit what there is, but I agree this is not a synopsis, more a screenplay treatment! Are you asking for a one- or two-paragraph summary of the film? It can be easily condensed, if need be. Chris 42 21:52, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

...And I've done it! Slightly more than two paragraphs, but I hope it reads okay and covers all the major plot points. I also did a few minor edits. I removed the 'screen shot' photo, as it didn't state to what it was being compared, along one of the 'teaser trailer' shots, as it was unclear and Christopher Reeve's name was illegible. Chris 42 19:47, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Missing DVD Technical Referance

Would it not be significant to mention that the DVD's soundtrack was NOT a simple remaster, but an entirely new soundtrack build including some re-created sound elements? Violet Grey 09:04, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

• Good point. Feel free to add it. Wahkeenah 14:46, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
  • I wonder about the phraseology "entirely new soundtrack". Technically that might be true, but it's actually a mix of old and new. The "whoosh" for the credits is clearly new (and, frankly, annoying and intrusive, rather than being "just part of it" as it was initially) but the music itself is the original track, near as I can tell... which is evident from the music-only track which has some apparent flaws in it. Wahkeenah 02:18, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

We, I only use the term "new" as in it is newly created and mixed for the DVD project. This version of the soundtrack has never apeared in any other form and is beyond a simple remix or remaster. Of course it is open for debate and alteration if the majority sees it should be so. Violet Grey 14:36 16 May, 2006

• I see. I'd like to hear your impressions of the music-only portion of the DVD, if you happen to have listened to it. Wahkeenah 00:03, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

I think as wonderful as John Williams music consistantly is, this is not a movie that really functions without the dialouge and effects. Star Wars works that way simply because Lucas is a poor writer, but the people in this film are its most important element. Violet Grey 2:2520 May, 2006

[edit] Article title

Suggestion: Rename the article to "Superman: The Movie".

I've been doing a lot of work on other Superman articles, and I'm pretty sick of writing "[[Superman (1978 film)|Superman: The Movie]]." If the film was just called "Superman", then I'd be happy to disambiguate it so, but it's clearly semi-formally known as "Superman: The Movie". The opening sentence of the article states that it was only called "The Movie" in "pre-release advertising". But I have here in my hands a 2001 DVD titled "(Superman) The Movie Special Edition" - so yes, it is still often officially called "Superman: The Movie" even today.

I prefer to use the "long version" of something's name as the article title over a disambiguation - especially a disambig-by-year. But I won't rename it without some sort of approval since it's a heavily-linked page. —EatMyShortz 12:51, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

• You can decrease your keystrokes by putting a vertical bar after "(1978 film)": Superman. The title debate has been held before. Regardless of various marketing campaigns, the true title is what appears on-screen. The film's real (reel) title is not Superman: The Movie, nor Superman: The Movie - Special Edition. It is just plain Superman. Wahkeenah 13:11, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree with the Wahkeenah. As on the IMDb's pages, a film may be known under a number of titles, but the one that appears on the screen at its first public showing is the only one that counts — and is therefore the official title. (Hence why, for example, X2 is not called X-Men 2, even though it was heavily used during the film's promotion.) The DVD may be called Superman: The Movie but it contains a film entitled Superman. This page has already been moved from its incorrect title at least once before. Chris 42 15:35, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Firstly, I could reduce my keystrokes by writing "[[Superman (1978 film)|]]" except that I find myself always having to write "[[Superman (1978 film)|Superman: The Movie]]" (as I said) - and this is partly just to keep up with everywhere else on Wikipedia where the link is called that as well. Maybe we have it wrong across the board, but it's not just me. At any rate, if you insist it must be called just "Superman", then I insist that the article title be simplified to "Superman (film)" - removing the date. After all, there is only one film called "Superman", and the page Superman (film) already redirects to Superman (1978 film). Is this proposal acceptable? —EatMyShortz 14:45, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

So long as the article reflects the film's correct title, then I have no problem with that. However, having just checked the IMDb, there are a number of films called Superman. Of course, the 1978 one is the most well known, but perhaps there is still an argument for keeping the date? Personally, I would prefer it if any references to Superman: The Movie throughout Wikipedia were changed to Superman, which would ensure both uniformity and accuracy. Chris 42 15:31, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Aye. Are Chris and I the only ones who realize the importance of disambiguation? Especially when the opposing push is for a suffix as silly as simply "(film)" or "The movie". I mean...really. Look at "Punisher (film)"—the article, not the actual movie in its entirity. I've heard bad things.—or cinema marquees. Returns is the new "Superman". WW, FF, Batman and Shazam! have all been made before, but more modern movies are still being made. Bottomline, america: Disambiguating with the date is more respectful to the past and helpful to modern movie-researchers. Sorry if I got ranty, but I just had to add my ten—noticibly more than two—cents. ACS (Wikipedian) 19:48, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

• I perfectly understand the purpose of disambiguation - it isn't supposed to completely remove all possible conflicts, but just disambiguate enough so that it is unique on Wikipedia. If you want more information, such as the date, you go and read the first sentence of the article. Disambiguation is just there to make sure you get to the article in question, and therefore, it should be the shortest and most obvious title which is still unique. Since "Superman" is taken (by the character, far more important than the film), the next shortest and most obvious disambiguation is "Superman (film)". If someone goes looking for this article, do you think they're going to type in "Superman (1978 film)"? The other way to look at it is, either way we go, the other one will redirect to the article anyway, so it's not about people finding it, it's just a question of "which out of all the different redirects to this article is the shortest and most obvious disambiguation?", and it clearly is "Superman (film)" (Or "Superman: The Movie" if that is it's actual title, but you tell me it isn't). —EatMyShortz 09:45, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DVD Bonus Features

I added the list of Bonus Features that are included in the 2001 Special Edition DVD.

[edit] Why say Superman Returns is a sequel?

I don't know why say that. I do that's a question searching for an answer.

user:I'm Madonna 8:58 p.m. PD: Don't Know what Day is it Today

It's a sequel to the 2nd film. Bryan Singer has stated (tho I don't have the time to look up a reference) that it picks up the storyline 5 yrs after II. You know, Lois has had a kid, the kid is obviously Superman's son, they slept together in the 2nd film... Tommyt 20:34, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] General Zod character

Why is 'General Zod' mentioned in this film when he does not actually appear in the franchise til the 2nd movie? leopheard 02:31, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

• He's in the opening scene, along with the other two Kryptionian criminals, all three of whom are sent to the Phantom Zone soon before Krypton's sun goes supernova, thus they escape its fate. Originally, there was a notion that they were going to re-appear at the end, when the rocket Superman sent up into space explodes and frees them, thus creating a cliffhanger ending. That plan was scrapped and a similar concept was used early in Superman II. Wahkeenah 05:37, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Which is Richard Donner's preferred version?

Which version of superman the movie does richard donner prefer, the original theatrical cut, or the 2000 extended version with the integrated bonus scenes? Adam

[edit] Three acts?

The article now describes the film's plot in three acts, which are:

1. Krypton + Smallville
2. Metropolis: Superman's deeds and Luthor's plan
3. Climax

It seems to me that the divide between these "acts" 2 and 3 is fairly arbitrary. (ie. Wikipedia made it up, it wasn't actually a real "third act"). Furthermore, I think there are three clearly-defined acts (and Donner and Mankiewicz back this up on the DVD commentary) - which are 1. Krypton, 2. Smallville, 3. Metropolis. Although with this redivision, Act III would be far longer than the first two acts, I think it much better represents the three distinct parts of the film. —EatMyShortz 14:55, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

• Critics who have divided the film into three (unequal) parts have used your breakout, not the other one. If that's in the article that way, it should be either changed or dropped altogether, as it is probably the editor's opinion. To look at it another way, the three "acts" are (1) Kal-El / Clark as an infant (2) Clark as a teen; and (3) Clark / Superman as an adult. Those aren't really "acts" in the typical sense, in fact. They are "mood changes". The scenes on Krypton are absolutely, deadly serious. A little humor starts to appear in Smallville, but it's still mostly serious. Metropolis is played like a comic book, and even Lex Luthor is hard to take seriously in spite of his murderous nature (too bad Kevin Spacey wasn't in the role then.) That's the difference among the three "acts". Wahkeenah 16:07, 7 December 2006 (UTC)