Talk:Super Smash Bros. Melee/Archive1

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[edit] Unlockable characters

Isn't the "How to unlock characters" section more appropriate for a site like game FAQs? I'd rather see it replaced by a link to an external site with that sort of info, and make the article here talk more about the game and it's significance rather than trivia. User:ShaneKing

Disagree. The information is quite useful to people who own the game. I'd much rather have the article be overly informative than underinformative. →Raul654 07:34, Feb 4, 2004 (UTC)

My point is it's just material that can be found elsewhere, and hence a link to such material would suffice. I don't find the material makes the article any more informative, just longer. However, I'm not an expert on this game, so I can't really flesh out the article with better material myself. ShaneKing 12:37, 7 Feb 2004 (UTC)
When someone gets the game, most of the characters and levels are unavailble. Many people go online to find out how to unlock. To them, this information is informative. If anything, I would like that section expanded to include information on how to unlock the levels. Remember, Wikipedia is not paper. →Raul654 23:27, Feb 9, 2004 (UTC)
I think the strategy guide stuff would have a better home over at Wikibooks. We could move all the unlocking info over there, and add how to unlock the levels and so on, make a strategy guide. That's what Wikibooks is for - Wikipedia is for encyclopedia entries. --Sparky the Seventh Chaos 17:24, Oct 10, 2004 (UTC)
Sparky is right. Video_Game_Walkthroughs:_GameCube would be the best place to put most of this article (and more). Hobie 01:59, 2004 Oct 13 (UTC)
Moved the Pokemon list over, the item and B-move lists will follow if there are no objections? Nifboy 21:48, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

Meanwhile, we've got a screenshot which displays all available characters right at the top of the page, with a spoiler warning before the description of how to get each character. I'm moving the picture down. Vague Rant 06:52, Sep 28, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Tournament Gameplay

Do you think we should add a section for advanced play techniques and tournament gameplay? Stuff on Wavedashing, L-Cancelling, and normal tournament rules? Also, stuff about tier lists? -ChewyLSB 16:17, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Non-player character articles.

I just fixed up the Master Hand article a little bit, and redirected Crazy Hand to that... and now I'm wondering what should be done about the Fighting Wire Frames. The Wire Frames and the Fighting Polygon Team from the first Super Smash Bros. are variations on the same theme... perhaps one article for all of them should be made at an article such as Fighting Polygon Team and Fighting Wire Frames, with redirects from Female Wire Frame, Male Wire Frame, and Fighting Polygon Team to there?

Also, is Fighting Polygon Team and Fighting Wire Frame capped? I think it is.

One more thing - do Master Hand and Crazy Hand's tropies ever specify gender? --Sparky the Seventh Chaos 01:52, Oct 31, 2004 (UTC)

The trophy descriptions are gender-neutral: they refer to both hands with the article "it."Adam Marx Squared 19:11, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I think Crazy Hand should get its own article, and perhaps they could be merged. I would myself ,but I've never done this before, and I'm scared of screwing up. Also we should add the trophy info from the game, if that's legal. - Anonymous

I don't think it would be legal; copyrighted material, after all. Adam Marx Squared 22:12, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

hey, this may be a mis-understanding. if you were saying (the guy on the top) that you wrote the crazy hand article on disscussion, it was me. i hope i am not mis-reading anything.

Whoever said that they redirected Crazy Hand to Master Hand, I would just like to say that I wrote a Crazy Hand article after you made the redirect. RememberMe?

[edit] Rating.

If this game's T rating is the first in the Mario series, it's also the first in the Legend of Zelda series, the Metroid series, the Ice Climber series, the Pokémon series, and so on and so forth. It's not technically a part of any of those series... it's a part of the Super Smash Bros. series.

At least, that's how I see it. --Sparky the Seventh Chaos 19:52, Nov 28, 2004 (UTC)

Agreed. Andre (talk) 20:38, Nov 28, 2004 (UTC)

Super Smash Bros. Melee is much similar to movies rated PG-13 with violence. --ZachKudrna18@yahoo.com

^What are you saying?Qwerasdfzxcvvcxz 23:40, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Trophies With True Facts & Errors

[edit] Future of Super Smash Bros.

unlikely to come. Some say that a "Super Smash Bros. DS" would either be a port of the original Super Smash Bros. or an adaptation of Super Smash Bros. Melee. Many say that the widely speculated future Super Smash Bros. game would be on the Nintendo Revolution. It is unclear whether there will be another Super Smash Bros. game anytime soon.

Across the Internet, the following characters have been speculated for the next Super Smash Bros. game:

Maybe this isn't true, but I've also heard that Wario, Toad and Pit (from Kid Icarus) are possible future characters. Cabez 08:09, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Just putting it out there but there is approximatley a 0%-0% chance a character not from a 1st party Nintendo game will be in the game.Qwerasdfzxcvvcxz 23:42, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
I am ashamed of my prievios post. I was sSO sure Nintendo would keep it in the family. Oh well, hopefully Sonic wont be in Brawl.Qwerasdfzxcvvcxz

[edit] Re: Falco

Falco is in fact a secret character in SSB:M based on Fox in SSB. No error, thus my revert. Andre (talk) 15:11, Feb 9, 2005 (UTC)

Yup, but the phrasing was a little weird; I can see why Carlj7 seemed to get confused. I've tried rephrasing that sentence a little. --Sparky the Seventh Chaos 15:18, Feb 9, 2005 (UTC)

Adam Marx Squared 00:48, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Defining SSBM as a fighting game

There are a lot of people who dispute the notion that SSBM is a fighting game. I think it is, but I think this article could reflect that dispute (and hopefully aim to resolve it). --Feitclub 01:34, Feb 23, 2005 (UTC)

There isn't a whole lot to say; some people have pre-conceived notions of what a "real" fighting game is, and SSBM does not meet that definition for those people. Nifboy 03:27, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Nifboy hits the nail on the head - just because super smash bros has a different feel to it than more traditional fighting games in the mortal kombat vein does not prevent it from being a fighting game. →Raul654 03:53, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC)
I've used the term Platform fighter to descibe it.

I would personally say that the series is like a joke about fighting games, what with things like giant hammers, Pokémon, Mario, and the fact that HP is only used in the Stamina Melee (And for Master and Crazy Hand) RememberMe?

the dispute is more about whether smash is a serious competitive game, not whether it's a "fighting game," which is a term that can be pried to almost any usage. MaskedSheik 01:47, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pokemon Japanese name inconsistencies

Take a look at the table of Pokemon. The "Japanese Name" column shows one of three different meanings:

1) The name as it is pronounced in Japanese 2) The Japanese name translated into its English meaning 3) The English name 'Japanized,' if you will, eg Celebi = Serebi (although in the article it is translated as Cerebi)

Not only are most of 3) incorrect, it's really not the Japanese name. Therefore, that should leave either 1) or 2). But this is colossal inconsistency. One of the three needs to be named the standard and applied to all names in that column.Adam Marx Squared 19:40, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I would sooner get rid of the list entirely; it primarily takes up space, and isn't significantly relevant to the article at hand. Plus, the names are consistent with the corresponding Pokemon articles, where it's more relevent. Nifboy 21:30, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Goldeen's attack

I removed the part of Goldeen's move effect on the Pokémon table that said "if Goldeen flops into water (in levels that have water), it performs a devastating attack on nearby enemies" because, to the best of my knowledge and searches at GameFAQs and Google, Goldeen having any kind of special attack is just a myth. Also, the only place in SSBM that I remember having water is the bottom of Jungle Japes, where attacks would be kind of pointless. CHz 07:07, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Actually, when the Kanto Stadium transforms there's some water - that stage where there's a windmill? It's to the right of the windmill.
Technically there's also water on either side of Peach's Castle, though once again there's not much point there. If this is true, then it might also work with the oil slicks on Flat Zone. >_> I'll add more if I think of any. Adam Marx Squared 03:15, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Termina Bay. This is actually the third variation on the rumor that I've seen. First I heard it could be done in Mushroom Kingdom I, then I heard it was a shield-breaking attack. I think we should just leave it in as a rumor. Nifboy 05:38, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Yep, all those stages have water too. Forgot about them. Been too long since I've played SSBM. Anyway, sticking in a short line about the rumor might be a good idea. The first variant of the rumor that I heard is that Goldeen supposedly causes damage if it falls off of a platform onto a character. CHz 04:58, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
MK1 doesn't have water (MK2 does, but only in the background); the supposed "proof" was that it'll break one or two of the bustable blocks if it's released underneath them. Nifboy 05:48, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I can attempt to test this theory. I will setup a custom match that has a higher rate of items appearing, the only items dropping will be the Pokéballs, and i'll play in one of the mentioned levels. I'll make sure to report my results here.
I've tried this and there's no attack. I think nintendo may have thought about it and then didnt put it in. a goldeen fell into the water when i was playing on termina bay. it just disapears.
There is no secret attack, period.

[edit] What is too FAQy?

As far as I'm concerned, things like, say, the B moves, should be left here for the sole reason that the manual includes them. -- A Link to the Past 20:44, July 9, 2005 (UTC)

It doesn't help with casual understanding, and anyone who has a more-than-casual understanding already knows the moves. The same goes for technique lists, trophy lists, item lists, Pokemon lists, and "how to play" tutorials (like the one that was on the Super Smash Bros. page briefly). Nifboy 22:02, 9 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Think they'll throw in a Storyline?

  • Super Smash Bros. - Nintendo Superstars fight each other for no apparent reason In our Imaginations.
  • Super Smash Bros. Melee - Nintendo Superstars fight each other for no apparent reason In our Imaginations. AGAIN.
  • Super Smash Bros. 3? - A Storyline to explain why they're all fighting each other? --Arima 00:49, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
Not really. People will buy it anyway. Almost all fighting games have some lame story that tells how the people came and started beating each other up. Thunderbrand 01:41, August 1, 2005 (UTC)
They fight as the toys of Master Hand. -- A Link to the Past 01:56, August 1, 2005 (UTC)
a) Why bother with a story? It doesn't need one. b) This isn't discussion about the article, it's discussion about the game. It should be reserved for a proper forum, shouldn't it?
No it's an important part of the game and thus the article has to represent it since it is a question that comes to mind, since it is a game. As for the storyline, I always thought that it was a kid that owned various figurines and the whole game is basically his imagination. Master/Crazy Hand is basically his hands as he moves the pieces/figurines to fight each other. This seems like the most plausible storyline since you have to try to get all the statuettes and the presence of a "hand". 128.6.175.53 22:14, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
Well considering there is no offical story then that's all that the article should state. Theories about the story are great for a forum, but on a Wikipedia article it would just get cluttered with all kinds of fancruft. --TheKoG (talk|contribs) 13:12, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
SSB shouldnt have a storyline, players should make it up with their friends. eg. I pick Marth my friend picks Pikachu, story: Marth is sick of Pikachus stupid voice, so hes a gonna kill Pikachu.Qwerasdfzxcvvcxz 23:46, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
Thats a good story. I should write a book.Qwerasdfzxcvvcxz

[edit] We need a gameplay image

Would someone kindly take a screenshot of SSBM during gameplay? Something akin to the other Fighting game screenies, preferably. Thanks in advance. Nifboy 04:24, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Screenshots

Here are some screenshots, courtesy of Nintendo Japan.

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n10/sw2001/softlist/ngc/smash/ --Masamunecyrus 19:53, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Blankings

Would A Link to the Past please discuss his edits here? I am going to put things back as they were, he claims in an edit summary that what he is deleting is "silly" material but I differ with him.

Would making a further section perhaps be sufficient?Pukachu 18:54, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

I do not see why cameos are a big problem. The Super Smash Bros series is already an amalgamation of many games in the Nintendo library, mentioning special efforts to include certain characters even in the backgrounds is not a bad or un-encyclopedic thing.Pukachu 20:17, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not GameFAQs. There is NO need for a guide on cameo appearances in this article. You're confusing encyclopedias with strategy guides. -- A Link to the Past 20:35, August 8, 2005 (UTC)
Also, you're completely ignoring the Characters in Super Smash Bros. Melee article (which I created for the express purpose of shuffling all the cameo fancruft over to). Nifboy 21:43, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
Did not know that article exists. It's fair to put that information there.Pukachu 22:57, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Infoboxes?

Does anyone think that infoboxes for characters in SSB and SSBM could serve a purpose? Probably containing B moves, notable powerful moves, how to unlock, grouping (like the characrer's symbol or where they're grouped on the character grid), related characters (like Marth + Roy, Pikachu + Pichu, Mario + Dr. Mario), stuff like that.. --gakon5 22:12, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

No. All that information is strategy-guide fodder, which has no real place in Wikipedia. Nifboy 22:18, 9 August 2005 (UTC)
Agreed. Certainly not a bad idea, but Wikipedia's not the place for something like that. -- J44xm 01:16, August 10, 2005 (UTC)
Most certainly not. This is exactly the reason the gigantic list about Pokemon was moved to Wikibooks. Adam Marx Squared 21:15, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

I'm thinking the same thing now. Things like this could be put into Wikibooks, but there aren't articles on each character over there, and it obviously wouldn't make sense to cram a bunch of infoboxes into one article. --gakon5 (talk) 21:25, August 10, 2005 (UTC)

There ARE articles on each character actually. Adam Marx Squared 04:00, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Not last August, there weren't. Most of the work I did on the SSB:M Wikibook (including individual character pages) was back in December. Nifboy 04:32, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Toad myth?

with the sonic and tails rumor, should we include information about The Toad Rumor? (here is a better picture that includes toadett) --ThrashedParanoid 02:41, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

I don't think this is worthy of inclusion. -- J44xm 06:38, September 13, 2005 (UTC)
I think i also heard that you could play as wario too, from what i remember you have to do the following to unlock them
wario, complete the game as mario on hard mode without getting hit or loosing ANY damage which is impossible. So it shows that it isn't true.
toad, shoot all the credits at the end of classic mode, then finish adventure mode.
these are very hard to verify since their tasks are almost impossible, but the stories may need to be cleared up. But if you see on Toad Hoax, you can be sure if it is true or not.
No rumors, please. Andre (talk) 21:18, 4 October 2005 (UTC)


well, the toad rumor is fake if you look at the pictures closely, but there is a action replay that allows you to play as master hand, crazy hand, wire frames, and oddly, sandbag. to find good websites that have proof, just go to master hand, select disscussion, and you will find websites. i wrote the crazy hand discussion.

[edit] Balloon Fighter

I would REALLY like to see any source that said he had those moves and was playable to the public. - A Link to the Past (talk) 23:51, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

Well you dont get what you want because there is no source and there is no Ballon Fighter in SSBM(other then the trophy).Qwerasdfzxcvvcxz

[edit] Tiers?

Who has been going to the articles for the characters, adding nonsense about what "tier" the character allegedly is? This is not Marvel vs. Capcom 2, people. There are not characters designed to be head and shoulders over the rest. ALL 25 CHARACTERS HAVE EQUAL POTENTIAL IN THE HANDS OF A SKILLED PLAYER. That's what makes the Super Smash Bros. games so special. Any character can beat any other character. It's skill and luck, not stats, that are key to victory. And what kills me is that the editors can't even agree on who belongs in what "tier" (for example, there are reputedly only three fighters in the top "tier", but at least six characters are identified in their individual articles as being in this "tier"!). And none of them cite any sources for backup. That's proof enough that the "tier" system is subjective and based on opinion, not fact. It's okay to mention what a character's speed, power, range, etc., are like; and it's okay to mention which ones are easiest for beginners to master and which require more practice. But don't claim that character X is in tier A and character Y is in tier B just because "some fans" say so. 142.161.207.226 04:21, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

TOP Fox Sheik Marth

UPPER Peach Falco Captain Falcon Samus

HIGH Jigglypuff Dr Mario Ganondorf Mario Ice Climbers

MID Luigi Link Roy DK Pikachu Zelda

LOW Ness Young Link Yoshi Kirby Mr Game & Watch Bowser

BOTTOM Mewtwo Pichu

This is the 'official' list. Definitive enough for you?? Adam Marx Squared 22:09, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

How is this official? It might not even be true. This list was made by fans. - A Link to the Past (talk) 22:43, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
I'm against putting tiers into the article because it's fancruft and FAQ'y; it only really applies to tournament-level play, when Wiki's primary purpose is a broad overview, particularly for people who haven't played the game, for whom the tier lists have no meaning. Nifboy 22:54, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Tiers should not be allowed into the article. They don't make any sense at all, they're subjective, and unsourced. Andre (talk) 22:57, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

[1] Adam Marx Squared 08:33, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
You're going to have to do better than a forum post on GameFAQs (which has a mean life of about ten days). Nifboy 13:57, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
That a fact? That particular thread has been up since 7/24/2005 4:16:39 PM. Not that that matters - my point is that it's a compilation of EVERYTHING in the game and is the point of reference for the entire board. It's sticky, and that's no easy feat on GF. But if you insist, [2].
That's not proof that the tiers actually exist, though. Unless we get a statement from Nintendo that they deliberately designed the characters to fit those categories, it's only fan speculation. I mean, I don't see how Pichu is "bottom tier", as it's one of the fastest characters in the game and has two of the most damaging attacks. See, that's my OPINION. Just as the tier list is the OPINION of the person who compiled it. And the idea that one person's opinion is more encyclopedic than another's just because one of them got a stickied topic on a message board is laughable. Show me where Nintendo says that they designed the characters to fit certain tiers (especially the ones where Fox, Shiek and Marth (!) are the best), and I'll believe you. 142.161.203.46 00:52, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Awright, it seems I need to do a little educating around here, since I don't think most of you know where babies the tier list comes from. First of all, the primary source for the current tier list is here, on Smashboards. This would be because the tier list is compiled by the folks in the Melee Back Room on Smashboards, an invite-only club that you only get into by actively participating in discussion in the main SB forums (and also why I asked Mr. Squared for a better source. The GameFAQs and Nintendo.com fora are secondary sources, mere reposts). Now, the folks in MBR who compile the tier list are primarily concerned with national-tournament level play. In other words, the tier list only really applies to a small portion of the folks who play SSBM: those who compete at the national level. That is why it doesn't belong in the article, not because its existence is in question (I don't think the existence of the Lord of the Rings universe is in question). Nifboy 02:39, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Hey, good point, Nifty. Thanks for the info. That actually makes sense now. Yeah, the tiers would exist as a natural result of players competing in tournaments. What I was mainly protesting was the idea that these tiers are somehow an inherent part of the characters, instead of just being how the characters shape out on the national tournament level. So really, the tiers are the PLAYERS and the characters they use, not the characters themselves. I can live with that. Thanks for the heads-up. : ) 142.161.204.234 03:05, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

I knew this. I didn't go into detail because I didn't feel it was necessary. All I was doing was citing a source to prove that there IS a mutually agreed upon tier list. I was arguing neither for nor against its incluson in the article. The concensus seems to be that it is not worthy of inclusion. Issue resolved? Adam Marx Squared 00:48, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

While I'm not arguing for putting tiers into the article, I must argue that in any game with sufficient asymmetrical elements (where suffient may even equal "any") tiers exist. The argument goes like this: consider the hypothetical situation that two different characters are 100% balanced with each other. Now give one of those characters a 10% increase in speed for one attack. Are they still balanced? Isn't one now better than the other? If such a slight difference can create an imbalance, how can it be claimed that 25 incredibly unique characters can all have equal potential in the hands of a skilled player?
I would argue that each character has a different learning curve, meaning it takes a different amount of effort to achieve a certain level of "skill" with each character, and furthermore that these curves probably wiggle between each other quite a bit so that at any given skill level, the tiers keep switching around, but that doesn't mean tiers don't exist. The point of the Smash World tier list is to attempt to discover the highest level tier list, which should theoretically demonstrate the overall strengths/weaknesses of each character. Fieari 15:37, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

-the tier list is not subjective, it is based on the the actual stats of each individual character (IE lag from moves, jump speed, attack power, KO ability, combo ability etc.) though that tier list is wrong unless there has been an update since the list that came out back in march. If you aren't a tourny player why are you allowed to write in this article?

the tier list is not fact; it is an interpretation of fact. the interpretation of these facts is subjective. the list is rather out-dated and probably needs a change, though i hope the ssbm community is mature enough not to need the mbr tier list as a crutch any more. it's pretty much understood that sheik and fox and marth are excellent characters that, with some variation, belong at the top of the tier list; we don't need mbr to tell us so. also, it's short-sighted to say that only tourney-level players can contribute; concerning the non-competitive aspects of the article (the majority of said article), almost anybody with some decent knowledge of the game can edit accurately. i'd say the main problem with the ssbm article is that it's poorly written. MaskedSheik 4 December 2005

-My $.02 concerning tiers. Tiers exist. It's just a simple fact of life of any game that doesn't have complete symmetry. The degree to which they exist vary. Many older RTS games have exactly identical sides, therefore tiers do not exist. Starcraft has tiers. Blizzard tries as hard as they can to balance it, but at any given skill level, a given race will be "better." But let me clarify the whole point of tiers of any game that is well-designed and has a sufficient metagame. "Tiers" do NOT dictate that, say, Protoss will always decimate Terran (hypothetical Starcraft example) or that, more applicably, Sheik will always dominate Peach. Skill, for the most part is greater than any difference in tiers. What tiers DO dictate is that, given two players with identical levels of skill, the player using a character of a higher tier will end up winning the match with a *small* margin. Too many of you are subbing in tiers for skill. I cannot pick up Mario without ever having played him and expect to beat a seasoned Luigi player. In fact, if I ever beat said Luigi player, it will be because I've out skilled the player, not because I'm playing someone of slightly hier Tier. That being said, I still feel that tiers do deserve some mention in teh sense of what the tournament community feels about given characters. Regardless of the fact that such information reflects a small portion of the total SSBM community... I mean, SSBM itself is going to be a very small subset of any wikipedia search. It is still useful information and insight into the metagame of SSBM. Of course, it needs to be disclaimered about its disputes, the whole issue of tiers and their relevance to marginal differences given equal skill, etc. but I still feel it adds to the article as a whole. I don't feel that we should have to "dumb down" an article to make it accessible... try looking up any article on differential manifolds or superstring theory and you'll understand what I mean. We should, instead, be presenting anything of relevance and informational merit concerning SSBM.

Their is no consensus about the relevance of tiers in SSBM, even among the community it originated in. Tiers are entirely subjective because they are an subjective interpretation by the fans, not the creators, and at best they are a catch-all word used to blatantly PoV the characters. I play SSBM, and I disagree with the entire tier list, so what makes an unofficial fancruft any more valuable than my own? Nothing. Not only that, but no official source mentions anything resembling tiers except the official Nintendo Power guide which groups characters in categories regarding their style, NOT their quality. Therefore, if this is not fancruft, I do not know what is. It should be replaced by something more accurate, i.e. the official guide from Nintendo.

Simulcra 00:08, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

To say that any information regarding the game from Nintendo is more "accurate" is laughable. A Google search for Nintendo's classification got me the following: http://forums.gamewinners.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-416222.html. A quick look at this: Fox is anything but balanced, being extremely fast, powerful and capable at comboing but also extremely vulnerable to being combo'd and killed (same follows for Falco). Captain Falcon should "stay in one place for most of the match?" I would argue almost every character out of his or her position, but I think you get my point.
The tier list, on the other hand, reflects the consensus of the community - the Smash community at GameFAQs and Smashboards that participate in tournaments and understands the game to a much greater level than Nintendo Power, or a typical player, does. Certainly, not everybody agrees with the tier list in whole - but it is the tier list that competitive community uses for comparison and discussion. This is a lot more than casual fancruft. And furthermore - citing it does not reflect bias, but rather the opinion of the community, and the character's usage in tournaments. I replaced the references, because they represent useful information about the characters from a competitive standpoint. MaskedSheik 00:11, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

AlphaZealot 04:09, 24 February 2006 (UTC) Most of the people who want the tier list pulled (deleted) seem to have no idea what they are talking about. It is based on many peoples votes from the Smash Backroom at Smashboards. These votes are all from players who either know their shit, or are capable destroying whoever they face in Smash (ussually both). The arguements seem to be based on whether a tier list exists at all, versus whether some characters are just harder to play and master (longer learning curves). The fact of the matter is that the tier list is based on how well characters are currently played (for the most part), not how well they could be played, because if they were, Fox would be unarguebly the best character in the game based on his potential. Also, the people who wish it to be pulled seem to have no concept or creditability. Some peoples opinions on certain topics are worth more than others. I wouldn't talk to George Bush about how my indivual county (not country) is run, I would talk to someone who is actually participating and running it. Just playing the game casually and mabye being the best of your friends does not make you an expert, and the reason the tier list seems to be met with such hostility is because these egotistical players, who ussually have never partcipated in a tournament, feel slighted that the character they own all their friends with is not on top, and therefor the entire list is wrong. (/rant)

I think it's a little simpler than that. Wikipedia is not GameFAQs. Tiers are fine to go in a game FAQ, just not in an encyclopedic article. The article is about providing the basic information to understand what the game is, not which character can kick another's butt. --TheKoG 13:24, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
What he said. Nifboy 14:36, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

I think adding the tiers to this section is a good idea. It's not opinion, it's not strategy, it's just information. And if Wikipedia isn't about sharing information, then what is it about?

--Keatsta 19:08, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Does the Wikibooks article tackle them? (I think the link might be here?) Adam Marx Squared 19:39, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
The tiers DONT EXIST!!! In Nintendo Power(The official Nintendo mag) They say the game is totaly balanced with one or two exceptions(NOT a quote)They make it seem like the 1 or 2 characters are weaker which is probably true. Although commonly thought of as "weak" characters Jigglypuff and Pichu (gasp) both have very strong attacks that can cath people off gaurd.Qwerasdfzxcvvcxz 23:55, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
Don't talk unless you know what you are talking about. Simple as that. The tier list actually puts Jigglypuff pretty high, Pichu on the other hand is greatly hindered and it is reflected on the tier list. What Nintendo Power says means nothing, they put out information for the newbs mostly. This aside, they are influenced by the competitive Smash scene and even did an article featuring Jason Rice (MLG Smash cooridinator AKA M3D) and Gideon (creater of Smashboards). They also did a community piece in following acticle featuring the Kishes FC3 from over the summer. Nintendo Power gets there information about competitive play from us (the competitive community), not that other way around. You don't catch pro level players off guard by Pichu's FSmash or USmash, sorry, it just doesn't happen.

69.140.106.213 02:24, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

K but if the tiers can change over time and the tiers can be different in dif countries than they cant be something built into the game.Zxcvbasdfg 21:59, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
Woah, I sound like a fanboy in that post. Im not. I agree with that person^ Qwerasdfzxcvvcxz 23:21, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
Tiers changing in differant countries is actually proof that tiers exist (and are built into the game, but the designer doesn't know how the tiers will turn out when they make a game). The reason being is because the PAL version of the game is differant then the NTSC version (for example many of Sheiks throws that Chain grab in NTSC no longer do so in PAL, therefor Sheik moves down on the tier list).

Tiers changing over time is simply proof of an evolution of the metagame, for tiers are always based on the current metagame (which is a reflection of technical skill and mindgames). At this point in the games lifespan it is very unlikely any new game changing techniques will be discovered, so the technical skill aspect has been virtually halted to a point and tiers will only change in minor ways as the technical skill is applied to tactics and counter tactics (using mindgames). 69.140.106.213 22:48, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

No, dont you see, if the characters in the tier list can move up or down(in whatever version)over time based on the metagame, then it means that there arnt tiers. At best it is a list of characters that "should" be effective against current prevailing strategies. However I agree Marth rox, he is my main character.Qwerasdfzxcvvcxz 20:01, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Tiers are only based on the current metagame, it doesn't mean they're aren't tiers just because they can evolve and change over time. Since it is apparent that some characters are inherantly worse than others, even if you don't agree with this list, you have to agree that you can have at least some sort of tier where you put worse characters. Pichu will never, no matter what sort of time you put into her, be as capable and successful as Marth, Sheik, or Fox. Or are you simply argueing that since Pichu could be better than these characters in the right hands than no one can make that assertion? In which case you would be wrong because no one, and I've seen all the best players in the world play, no one could win a tournament with Pichu.

69.140.106.213 04:08, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Super Smash Bros. Popularity

Super Smash Bros. Melee has become, since its release in the early days of the GCN, one of the most popular games on the current generation systems. It has been on Nintendo Power's Best Seller list for over 40 months and running. It will be very hard for someone to top this record in for a long time.

I'm not sure if this is supposed to be a discussion section or if it's even worth replying to...but SMB3 and Link's Awakening were both on the charts for almost 100 months. Adam Marx Squared 00:48, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

woah your name^ isnt a hyperlink. kruazy.Qwerasdfzxcvvcxz 23:23, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sonic/Tales Hoax

I've heard of this hoax the first time around, but I am convinced an overwhelming majority of people did not buy into it. However, jurdging by the article, it seems like mentioning the Sonic/Tales hoax is inevitable when giving an encyclopedic description of the game. Does that hoax, which was quickly debunked, deserve a whole section? I think it should be reduced.

You'd be surprised how many people STILL think Sonic and Tails are in the game. Adam Marx Squared 21:27, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
I remember trying to submit codes for GameFAQs and saw that it had to be mentioned. It went something like, "The Sonic and Tails cheat is a hoax. STOP SUBMITTING IT." If it got mentioned on the warning screen for sending cheats, I'm sure it got pretty big. Hbdragon88 05:13, 20 December 2005 (UTC)


your right! the sonic/tails thing IS fake. i mean really. how can anyone play cruel melee and think they can kill 20 or 25 enemys? and sonic is not even part of nintendo. i hear the whole reason this lie is out is because in a magazine on april fools day they put that in as a joke( most people dont think so though).

ermm.....i have 88 kills with pikachu and 60 with jigglypuff. and that's not even "good." the best cruel melee players are well into the thousands. MaskedSheik 00:30, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, really. I have 167 with Mewtwo, 87 with Pichu, 50 with Mr. Game and Watch, and 31 with Mario. ~Seros
seriously, if you really want to get a lot of KOs on cruel melee, you can just use Donkey Kong’s Ground Pound or Link’s Spin Attack to get a lot of KOs, anyway my record is 184 kills. :D The Dragonlord

@Dragonlord - Those won't work, you're thinking of Endless Melee. The best CM strats are about herding them into one spot then finishing them as a group. I got 153 with Pikachu, which is decent, I guess, by doing a very basic herding pattern (have them chase you so that they all end up on a platform above you, roll to edge, charge Dsmash, when they fall through, dsmash will KO all of them.) --Keatsta 19:12, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

It was indeed a hoax, in Game Informer, I think. And I hate to be a mother hen, but please stop bragging about your CM records on a Talk page. Adam Marx Squared 19:15, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

The hoax was by Electronic Gaming Monthly. Game Informer do not do hoaxes or April Fools pranks. 71.100.15.41 14:25, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

does anyone have a link to the faked screenshots with sonic and tales included?

I was thinking the same thing, myself. It would be even better if somebody had that edition and scanned them in theirselves, but I'm not picky. Nifboy 13:56, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Playable Characters Section:

The biggest grammar nightmare I've ever had the misfortune to see. It reads, basically, like a badly translated NES manual.

True Dat.

[edit] deleted this line...

"This game in the series is close related to movies rated PG-13 that contain violence."

...Because it's insane

Thank You! I knew someone else beside me had to think so.

[edit] List of Terms?

Edge-guarding, wavedash, knockback...SSBM contains a slew of highly jargonic terms. Should there be a whole section, or maybe even a whole article of SSBM terms and their definitions? Soul Calibre has one.

if you want you could make an advanced article of smash, I don't see a problem with that if it's too "faqy" shoot someone

I leave this article alone for a few months and this is what happens. Now it's full of nearly unintelligable crap. Goddess, I try moving all this stuff to the wikibooks entry (which, you know, is meant for strategy guide and FAQ-esque things just like this) and it comes back more reliably than Link's boomerang. Nifboy 10:58, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
Um...wha?
You realise this has nothing to do with strategy or FAQs, right? Adam Marx Squared 04:33, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
I concede that the original poster was probably talking about something else. I just felt like ranting because right now about half the stuff in the article is of no interest to anyone who doesn't own the game and well-known by anyone who does. Nifboy 05:22, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
well i'm wondering what we really want to put in this article. it's getting big, and the majority of people reading the article probably don't care much about the terms list (i added the terms because i didn't think that devoting an entire section to wave-dashing alone was appropriate). i'm not familiar with creating new articles, but i would do so if it helps make the ssbm article more concise and clear. MaskedSheik 02:30, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
I think separating this morass of an article into a few more specialized 'See Also' articles would be beneficial. Mask, if you have ideas to that end, go ahead and create the articles. Mistakes are not difficult to fix, no worries. Adam Marx Squared 05:32, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
I figure that was the entire point of Wikibooks (an extension of WP:FICT of sorts) so I'm putting a disambig-style link to the Wikibooks article at the very top of the page. 'Sides, the SSBM Wikibook needs more love (another of my frustrations). Nifboy 08:35, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
I say bring back/keep terms people have no other easy way to learn them.Qwerasdfzxcvvcxz 23:39, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
We are not here to help people learn a very specialized set of jargon used by a small subset of people who play the game. Nifboy 23:44, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
You have a point but I dont see why it cant be added.Qwerasdfzxcvvcxz 01:48, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Im confused

SSBM is 3D, but I found this. DonZabu

You can't tell those are just fan-made? --Phred Levi 03:59, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
SSBM is NOT 3D. You can only move left, right, up, or down – just like any traditional fighting game. Hbdragon88 05:07, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
You can't tell he meant that the graphics are in 3D? --Phred Levi 05:19, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Yoshi and Mario trophy...

Only for the Japanese version? I know that I recieved it on my English copy of the game. Unless for some reason I was playing on the Japanese language option and I got it, but I don't know if I can get it that way. Hmm.. I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I have it! Also, no, I didn't use any type of Action Replay on the game.

"There are only 2 ways to unlock those trophies. Being in Japan at the time of the promotional giveaway or with the action replay." - nismojoe

To get the most secret and beautiful trophie on SSBM, is to have a Super Mario Sunshine in the same memory card as from your SSBM and you have the Super Mario 64 trophie.

[edit] datels action replay codes

hi! i was wondering if anyone has a code for version dole-gale-00-02 1.2 that allows you to play adventure as whatever character you want and having the three cpu partners being master hands and crazy hands. thanks.~•

      ~

[edit] criticism and controversy

does it belong? i never heard anything about the game's tone being too serious for nintendo characters, so i'd think it's a little forward to say that ssbm is "noted" for this criticism. MaskedSheik 21:30, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

I was just coming here to point out how ridiculous some of that section is.
  • The game is noted as having graphics that are dull in color and very realistic in style, and the overall mood of the game is serious and even slightly ominous.
  • During gameplay and while in the trophy gallery, the camera can be manipulated in such a way as to look up the skirts of the "Peach" and "Zelda" characters, or their trophies (as well as those of other trophies of female video game characters that are wearing skirts, though none provide as explicit images as the "Peach" and "Zelda" trophies do). While it is not generally believed that it was intended for players to do this, it is, nevertheless, possible, and provides mildly realistic and explicit images, (the "Zelda" character does not wear undergarmets but at the same time is not anatomically correct so there is little to see), some of which have even been posted on voyeur websites.
Anything I say right now will be (perceived as) trolling whoever wrote that, so I'll just leave it at that. - 211.28.79.52 12:29, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
While we're on the subject of "what?", I'd also like to ask what this paragraph is trying to get across:
  • Birdo's last appearance before Super Smash Bros. Melee's release was Mario Tennis, not Super Mario Advance as her trophy also claims. Super Mario Advance was a remake of Super Mario Bros. 2 ported from Super Mario All-Stars; the only new character appearance was "Robirdo".
What is meant by also, and what the crap does everything after "Super Mario Advance was a remake ..." have to do with anything? And what is Robirdo? If SMA is an accurate representation of SMB2 as it appeared in SMAS, Birdo is most definitely present. I've never heard of Robirdo. - 211.28.79.52 13:07, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Go to the "List of Mario series characters" and you'll see Robirdo. Triforce of Power 14:13, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

I deleted that selection. I'm sorry, but it's complete garbage. It's all bias; no substantiated information. Just utter crap. --buckeyes1186 04:37, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Good... that section was downright bullshit. Anyone who thinks any character in SSBM is "too cheerful" or "too cartoony" probably forgot what game they are playing. - 65.92.112.160 13:52, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
Actually, the section stated that characters such as Mario or Yoshi who are generally cheerful and cartoony look too serious and realistic in this game. I know that whoever started that section did a poor job, but it did contain some helpful information, so I posted a revised version a little while back, but it was deleted too. It seems to me that the ones who are biased are the ones who are removing that section. I'm posting it again, and this time I hope that it won't be deleted, as all of the information it contains is verifiable, and just because it may criicise this game is not a good reason to delete it.--Alumni 05:09, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
If somebody, ANYBODY would just post a link to some notable source that actually SAID it there wouldn't be any discussion about including it. If this article is to have any chance of being featured it needs to cite sources. Nifboy 06:31, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
agreed. it's silly to say that we're necessarily biased because we want to remove the section - frankly, i have quite a bit of criticism for melee myself, and would be happy to repost the information if it were widely acknowledged. however, throughout my three-odd years in the smash community i have never heard any criticism about the game's dark style, and i don't think any game publications did so either. and even so, i don't think the game's seriousness or realism are the main sources of criticism. smash receives quite a bit of criticism from the fighting game community for not being a serious fighter - whether or not this is true, it is a much more significant criticism than the selection i just deleted. MaskedSheik 21:51, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
I agree with you guys about that. That was definitely nonsense. However, this game does still have criticism, but none of what was previously put. I just want to point that out because that is what I HAVE heard, unlike the mess that was put at first.
Yeah that stuff is total bullony. You cant look up the dresses and the"comic mischeif" descriptor mean cartoony violence a la Looney Toons eg. hitting people with oversized hammers and noone getting hurt, dynamite not killing people, it has nothing to do with anything risque. The game also isnt dark, yeah they fight but fighting is in the original Super Mario (Goombas get teir heads jumped on, that would hurt pretty bad not to mention possibly fatal).Qwerasdfzxcvvcxz 23:36, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cruel melee

wats the use of cruel melee if u cant unlock sonic with it? Darth Boz 01:35, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

It's just supposed to be an intense endless challenge. The sonic and tales story was actually a joke started by EGM. Solidusspriggan 01:44, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

you can unlock the mr. resetti trophy amongst others with cruel melee. MaskedSheik 02:35, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

I think the Cruel Melee is also to give the WireFrames some strength, and not have them regarded as patheticly weak lightweights. It's also just darn cool. RememberMe?

Can T.REX beat the cruel melee? After all, T.rex is cruel, just like the wire people.

Snakes can beat cuel melee AND T.Rex, on a TEAM against the snakes.Zxcvbasdfg 21:49, 19 May 2006 (UTC) But only if teh snace5 @m 0n ra p1@n3

[edit] Stuff Missing-Excellent resource

does anyone else think that there should be a section for action replay modifiers? check out www.detstar.com and click on the ssb:m button. also i think there should be one section for hoaxes (toad,sonic, ditto, goldeen's attack, and akenia). any other thoughts?

well ditto does exist with the action replay you can take him out .

cruel melee isnt that hard my friend did 44 kills in it lol so the sonic hoax didnt work .

[edit] Naming Attacks

a problem in the character sections - how should we name attacks? i prefer to use "forward aerial" or "down smash," with a possible explanation afterwards (like "falco's down aerial (down + A in mid-air)") of how to perform the attack. at any rate, using terms like "uair" and "dsmash" is confusing to people unfamiliar with smash jargon, whereas "up aerial" and "down smash" are more or less self-explanatory.

also, with b attacks - do we say "luigi's super jump punch" instead of "luigi's up b?" MaskedSheik 20:39, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Jargon like "up b" or "super jump punch" is very likely to confuse a reader who isn't familiar with either term. Since the "official" names are dodgy and ill-used at best, I'd just describe the move in general without using any monikers (In Luigi's case, it's an uppercut). Nifboy 22:54, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
    • Im bulleted! But seriosly I say we use, up b, d smash, forward(>) aerial. PS If someone isnt familiar with teh jargon then why woul they be on tihs page??????????Qwerasdfzxcvvcxz 12:35, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Game Terms

Deleted - one, they aren't even commonly used names; two, it's pretty useless information, especially considering how much can be said for the competitive community; and three, because the articles already really big and we don't need to add other stuff. Somebody else can put my reasoning in Wikipedia terms - but the section doesn't belong. MaskedSheik 03:05, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hoaxes

Can we get this straight for once and for all? The two most significant hoaxes were the Sonic and Tails rumor and the Toad rumor. This Wario rumor was NOT widespread, so unless somebody can source it and show that it had a widespread effect (unlikely, considering that it never appeared on Smashboards or GameFAQs), it doesn't belong. This goes for ALL hoaxes. The section is not an invitation to post all the lies your Smash-playing friends told you. MaskedSheik 21:58, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Wait a minute! Toad is a secret character and I got him. Wario is one the most ridiculous and biggest lie of all.ANd think. If tehere is a space beside Roy and Pichu, why don't they put 2 more characters to fill the line? May,8 2006
First of all, you'll have to provide a whole lot more proof of Toad other than "I got him." Second, the reason the spaces are beside Roy and Pichu is because those are the random selection boxes. You ever tried placing your token in one of those empty spaces? The game automatically moves it to a random character. --TheKoG (talk|contribs) 12:13, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What content is appropriate

General concensus on the rest of Wikipedia is that "how-to"s are unencyclopediac (this is, in fact, official policy). Check out the VG Project's guide on articles' content, particularly their rule of thumb: "if the content only has value to people actually playing the game, it's unsuitable.". Nifboy 23:06, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

This would also be helpful in pulling together this otherwise unruly article. That quote makes me wonder whether we should simply eliminate the character descriptions altogether. They're a disaster as-is, and the majority of useful information about them is rooted in a knowledge of the gameplay.MaskedSheik 04:21, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
I would support that, yes. I also want to reinstate that link to the Wikibooks article at the top of the article: That's where all the strategy-guide-esque stuff goes and it only gets like one edit each day. Nifboy 04:33, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
All right. I'm deleting each of the character descriptions. It seems that everything I wind up deleting everything I spend time trying to rewrite ;D. Incidentally, I'd suggest simple Wikilinks to Characters in Super Smash Bros. Melee and Stages in Super Smash Bros. Melee (doesn't exist yet) as opposed to listing them in the SSBM article itself. This way we can focus much more on the Smash community. I'll start doing more edits on the Wikibooks entry - last I checked it was a bigger disaster than this article, but it has to have improved since then. MaskedSheik 01:27, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The French Wikipedia article

[French Wikipedia SSBM article!]

I don't know whether it's gauche to compare articles to their foreign equivalent, but look how nice and neat this thing is! It isn't perfect, but it's a lot more concise and interesting than our article (whic admittedly, is much my fault >_>). The previous discussion got me thinking that most of the article is lists - stuff that people don't really care about (in fact, I don't think anybody would miss the stages section). So I propose we create articles for "Stages in Super Smash Bros. Melee" and "Trophies in Super Smash Bros. Melee," cut these sections out of the main SSBM article, and use the remaining space to write more information about SSBM's effect on the press and the gaming community - information people would want to read.

What do people think? I don't want to make the articles just yet (frankly, I need to learn how >_>), and I don't want to seem to forward in deleting everything, but this article has grown cancerous and we need to cut some of the less useful information out. MaskedSheik 02:50, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

On a completely related note, Characters in Super Smash Bros. Melee was actually a similar attempt of mine to extract the character cruft out of the article (and look how successful THAT was). Nifboy 05:34, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hoax Section

I have changed the title of the hoax section to relate it better to the rest of the article and therefore removed the off topic tag. Whether it actually belongs in the article is another story, but it is at least not off topic.--Danaman5 23:03, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Birdo or Ostro

In Super Mario Brothers 2, Ostro is the name of Birdo. Birdo is a different being that has a Shy Guy riding on its back. I just played the game last night, and that's what the "credits" say. --myselfalso 15:54, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

I remember that too, but it's a typo. In newer versions of the game it's corrected to say that the egg-shooting thing is Birdo while the red bird the Shy Guys ride is Ostro. --TheKoG 15:57, 6 March 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Combat System Mechanics - Comparison to the original game

I was just wondering if someone could put in a quick little comparison between the combat system in the first game and that used in the sequel. I found that in the original, winning a fight mostly relied on the ability to use throws on a weakened opponent to get a KO while in Melee, usually the best way to get a KO is with a "smash attack." I was slightly surprised that the smash attacks weren't mentioned at all in this article. The focus seems to be on the B button attacks.

There seems to be a lot of discussion right now about what should go into this article, so I thought I'd offer it as a suggestion rather than just making the edit myself.

In general I think it'd be too technical, and unless you can cite sources for it it borders on original research. Personally, I think throws were simply overpowered in SSB and are "normal" (of varying power based on the throw and the character) in SSB:M. Most of my Mewtwo kills are throw-based, at least. Nifboy 06:59, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
Again, this would be original research, but though many smash attacks are used to kill, just as many finishers are aerials. The original Smash was much more offensive as well. Nothing we could add, of course, unless some reliable source (the MBR?) says something about it. MaskedSheik 03:49, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
It is true that throws aren't as likely to KO a weak opponent in Melee. If anyone has a good strategy guide it should show they effectiveness of throws for KOs in SSB and the lack of effectiveness in SSBM.Solidusspriggan 10:57, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hoaxes

I've never heard of the Fire Emblem stage rumour. It may be popular, but I doubt it, because I never heard it. I may take it off since it's not a really "big" hoax. M2K 02:40, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

It was a lot more common in the first few months after the game came out, but wasn't even close to the Sonic or Toad rumors. There was such a rumor, but is it significant? MaskedSheik 03:19, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

If it has a link (like Toad), or was mentioned in a magazine (like Sonic), I think it is noteworthy for inclusion into the Rumor section. - Hbdragon88 04:12, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

On that reasoning I removed the reference to the Dragon Temple stage. There was no source for the hoax unlike for the other two. --TheKoG (talk|contribs) 14:20, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

I was the person that added the Dragon Temple stage. I know it isn't that major of a hoax, but the unfinished AKANEIA stage (Which was debunked for reasons I cannot understand) seemed to make it worth mentioning. RememberMe? 00:12, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

here is a link. http://www.armageddongames.net/archive/index.php/t-51313.html also i think that it should be on the article since, as mentioned before, there is an unfinished level called akaneia in the debug menu. you can see a full guide of the debug menu at http://ssbm.detstar.com/debug/

I have read the Dragon Temple hoax on a cheat site(gasp)listed as an unlockable for beating All-Star Very Hard as Marth/Roy no continues. I really wish I remembered which one, I think it was removedQwerasdfzxcvvcxz 01:50, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

The Wario hoax was a famous lie but the Toad hoax story is a lie. I have him and if you see on the own wilipedia results of ssbm, you will see a part saying toad. Go on The Toad Hoax that is underlined and you will see the truth. To take him, you need to be a good shooter.People, if we have 2 spaces resting on the last line (beside Roy and Pichu)there is a prove that nintendo put 2 more characters like they did in Super Mario 64, which there is Luigi; and Mario using a different coat. Nintendo want us to know their own secrets. Look, I'm telling this because I'm a Nintendo member and specialy because Super Smash Bros. Melee is the most realistic, fun and different from all the others( in which shows the Nintendo battle).

Let's get this straight. TOAD IS NOT IN SSBM. FINAL. They have hacked into the game and searched every nook and cranny of debug mode and he is NOT in there. RememberMe? 21:30, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

And the gaming website you couldn't think of? Cheatplanet. At least that's where I first saw it. RememberMe? 22:04, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Now that you mention it, I think it was cheatplanet. It happened around the same time I stopped using Sheatplanet and started using cheatcc.com. Cheatcc is better FYI.Qwerasdfzxcvvcxz 11:51, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Action Replay

This has been something that's been bugging me recently. Why is the Action Replay mentioned so much in this article? It's a cheat device that allows access to parts of the game in situations other than what the creators intended them for. I have yet to find another video game article that references things you can do with cheat devices as much as this one. Are the cheats you can do with this specific device really notable enough to include them throughout the entire article? I know none of them are even close to the notability of the Hot Coffee mod. In my opinion this article should just focus on the release version of the game, not what cheats you can perform or characters and stages you can play in unintended situations. --TheKoG (talk|contribs) 19:33, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. The sheer number of conditionals embedded into the article (These characters are not playable, except when they are) makes it a pain to read. Nifboy 20:24, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
Agreed (also). They're not notable enough to warrant inclusion. 159.134.255.15 23:28, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

The only reason I used the Action Replay for this game is to unlock the 3 hidden trophies. They were only available for a short time in Japan and lets face it, I was not aobut to plop down money for a trip to Japan for some promotional trophies. What most people get confused on, is the fact that the trophies are not just in the Japanese version, they ARE in the "English" version. In the Japanese version, the only way to unlock them is by attenting whatever promotional thing took place in Japan. The only way to unlock them in the English version is via the AR. - nismojoe

[edit] Pictures and Spoilers

I think the presence of the character choose screen screenshot with all characters unlocked is a huge spoiler, regardless of placing (it is much more difficult to ignore than text). The same for the Mr. Game and Watch picture. I rather disagree with the inclusion of both. --Yuuki Mayuki 08:19, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Makes sense, if a picture could be found of the character select screen before any unlocks then that could probably go in the article pretty well. Guess you could also change the picture of Mr. Game and Watch to that of some other non-unlockable character in the game. --TheKoG (talk|contribs) 13:41, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
Personally, I'm not convinced unlockable characters are spoiler material. The article on Mr. Game & Watch talks almost exclusivley about his SSBM appearance, for example. Nifboy 19:01, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
Well, someone's got to improve that article. About the unlockables, some people don't mind spoilers, and some do. The latter group includes me, and I'm quite sure I'm not alone with it. --Yuuki Mayuki 20:07, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Praise" Section.

I felt compelled to remove this sentence from the Praise section:

"Another great fact is that Jeremy Richardson is the best person to ever play this game. Never before has the world seen such a great person."

Not only do I not recognize that name from SmashBoard's Smash Power Rankings, but I had NO idea that Ken's full name was Jeremy Richardson.

- 63.26.253.22 03:07, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

That was absolutely right. --Yuuki Mayuki 08:30, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ESPN

"MLG continues to run corporately sponsored Smash tournaments, with a good chance that ESPN will be carrying their events this coming season."

There definately needs to be a source here; I'm not sure if this is a joke or for real.

"The independent scene also thrives, with many small tournaments appearing consistently and the next tournament in the MELEE-FC series already planned for July 13th-15th."

I do think this looks like a blantant advertisement by not mentioning other large tournaments that are planned to happen. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.74.117.228 (talk • contribs) 02:50, 28 March 2006 (UTC).

I removed it. The MLG thing does need a cite though, because WP is not a crystal ball nor should it speculate on pure specualtion. - Hbdragon88 05:19, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
Solid information came through. USA Network. :)

[edit] Separate page for tophy characters and Reaction

Should there be a separate page for the trophy characters? Also, whoever changed what was under Reaction should have left it alone. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.233.42.11 (talk • contribs) .

No. Nifboy 00:22, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
Reaction needed to be changed. Before it was horrific. Now it looks better, with more substantiated, referenced reaction instead of wishes and pleas and that riff-raff. - Hbdragon88 05:37, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

The first reaction was horrible, but it was the second criticism that shouldn't have changed. Also, I can't find a specific citation for last part (where they have a list of characters people believe are missing) but I can assure you that you'll find this criticism in alot of places. But whoever keeps taking the Criticism off needs to seriously stop. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.233.42.11 (talk • contribs) .

Unfortunately, WP just doesn't do that. It has to be verified and sourced, even more so now that there are 2-3 editors essentially patrolling the page and removing unsourced criticism. If you can find an complaint from a gaming website or something...by all means add it. - Hbdragon88 04:31, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

I did find a site that did have a complaint of Little Mac's absence but the others are pretty much found in like hundreds of forums (but none in particular I'm familiar with).

[edit] Here is an idea

I wish Nintendo could make Super Smash Bros. DS for the Nintendo DS because this was my idea, but Nintendo can't refuse this idea. Otherwise, Nintendo fans could be dissapointed and will discontinue Nintendo like Acclaim did. Anything Else (a.k.a.) David 7:10 17 April 2006

Ummm, that is absurd, why would Nintendo discontinue itself?
I would love to see Super Smash Brothers Arcade even more than Super Smash Brothers DS. But it is good they arent over milking the franchise at least, that assures the series doesnt deteriorate in quality quickly. Melee has stood the test of time so far, I wonder how many years into the future we will be playing this game? My friend and I estimated 10 years after its release, that is 2012! of course that was before the announcement of the Revolution SSBSolidusspriggan 11:03, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
As awesome as SSBDS would be SSBW (Super Smash Bros. Wii) should be even cooler. My biggest fear these days is Nintendo will continue their stupid total innovation gimmick, I like some innovation but Nintendo can take it to far, and ruin SSB with some sort of motion sensing. I dont even want to think about this anymore, too sad.Qwerasdfzxcvvcxz 23:13, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GA Failing

Piles of uncited info and no Fair Use Rationales on images. Fix these and re-apply, Highway Rainbow Sneakers 22:10, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for rejecting it. I wanted to but have done significant contributions to this article. Among other travesties, "Sonic and Tails" is not cited, and neither is Tournaments. It also has a huge problem with users trying to insert cruft materials. - Hbdragon88 05:04, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tamagon

Tamagon was removed from the PAL version. Contrary to popular belief, it is in the American version.

What? Thanos6 06:37, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?Qwerasdfzxcvvcxz 12:37, 23 May 2006 (UTC)hmm...I wonder?12:37, 23 May 2006 (UTC)Qwerasdfzxcvvcxz
However some things (which will remain unnamed) were removed from later version. Lucky me I have teh original.Qwerasdfzxcvvcxz 11:47, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tails Picture Size

Appearantly, the picture of Tails covers up the text. [click the text "Tails" to see] Can someone fix this? --RandomOrca200:35, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Heart Containers

Just a quick one re heart containers: the article currently states that they 'replenish all damage', which, in the UK version at least, is not true - they replenish 100 'hit points'. (I want to say 100% but that's just confusing...) Any objections to using 'hit points' or better still, does anyone have a better suggestion?Libatius 05:38, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

I suggest not using heart containers as an example; this has come up previously and still draws confusion. In All-Star mode they replenish all damage. Anywhere else they only replenish 100. Nifboy 06:22, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
Cool, assuming there's no objection, I'll remove heart containers from the paragraph. I'd forgotten about All-Star mode...Libatius 16:40, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mew?

Is the Mew hoax notable at all? There have been several minor hoaxes which have been added, such as Koopa, Giga Bowser, and Wario, but is Mew notable? And can somebody tell me how you were supposed to "unlock" him? RememberMe? 21:51, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

The Mew hoax really doesn't seem notable at all. I've never really heard of it. I think we should restrict coverage of hoaxes to the Sonic and Tails and Toad ones. Mr. Lefty Talk to me! 01:27, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
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