Talk:Sulfur

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Article changed over to new Wikipedia:WikiProject Elements format by Dwmyers and maveric149. Elementbox converted 10:41, 23 Jun 2005 by Femto (previous revision was that of 10:41, 23 Jun 2005).

Contents

[edit] Information Sources

Some of the text in this entry was rewritten from Los Alamos National Laboratory - Sulfur. Additional text was taken directly from USGS Sulfur Statistics and Information, USGS Periodic Table - Sulfur, from the Elements database 20001107 (via dict.org), Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) (via dict.org) and WordNet (r) 1.7 (via dict.org). Data for the table was obtained from the sources listed on the subject page and Wikipedia:WikiProject Elements but was reformatted and converted into SI units.


[edit] Spelling

Why is it that the world sans Britan wants "f" in Sulfur, while it's "ph" in others (Phosphorus, Telephone) TELEFONE?

Sulfur has a Latin root. The Latin alphabet contains an f. Phosphorus has a Greek root. The Greek alphabet contains a phi. Go figure. User:Shimmin
AFAIK, the Romans themselves used PH when transcribing the Greek letter Φ ("phi"). Today that letter sounds "F" in Greek, but perhaps it wasn't so at the time.Jorge Stolfi 23:16, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC)

But why doe they say, that "sulphur" is the traditional British spelling? Is this a retroactive graecisation? 62.46.175.173

I'm surprised this title hasn't been given an NPOV rant. I'm pretty sure it should be sulfur (as it's more popular) but it could be considered POV because it technically is!


I'm not sure that sulfur is more popular. KingStrato

FYI, the IUPAC standard spelling is "sulfur" –Abe Dashiell (t/c) 19:05, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

That's not the point. Sulphur is the traditional British spelling, it's the way I was taught to spell it. I was also taught to use colour, honour and centre. We don't argue over how they are spelt so why do we with sulphur/sulfur? I shall continue to use sulphur and accept that other people use sulfur. I am, until proved otherwise, unwilling to accept that sulfur is the more common spelling. Given that sulphur is used in india I would imagine there's quite a few people use that spelling. KingStrato 10:39, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
Sulfur is the technical spelling, but Sulphur is an accepted variant. Likewise, while Aluminium is the correct spelling, Aluminum is an accepted variant.

Surely if one wants to produce an encycolpedia in English one should spell in English, not "American English". Sulphur is the primary spelling of the word, sulfur is a varient which has come about with a local dialect.

smurrayinchester(User), (Talk) 16:42, 21 January 2006 (UTC)


I am aware that the IUPAC decided to go with 'Sulfur', but that decision always struck me as being a bit strange. The OED lists many instances of the word through time including: 13## - soufre, 1390 - sulphre, 1420 - sulphure, 1549 - sulfure, 1595 - sulphur (which is the first reference to this particular spelling) and eventually going down the list we get to the first reference to ‘sulfur’ in 1953. Furthermore, ‘sulfur’ doesn’t even get an entry in the dictionary, merely a note under the alternate spellings. (From which you could also choose “4-7 sulphre, 5-7 sulphure, 5, 7, 9 (now U.S.) sulfur, 6-7 sulpher, (4 soufre, soulphre, 5 solfre, 6 sulfure, sulfre, sulphyr, 7 sulfer), 5- sulphur.”)

I’m not an expert on the roots of words but under etymology it says “:--L. sulfur(em), sulphur(em)” which means “normal development of Latin", this suggests to me that both spellings seem valid, though whilst 'sulphur' was common from the 1590's onwards, 'sulfur' appears to have become popular in America from the 1950's onwards. As for "This spelling has begun to replace its variant in educated circles", I would say it hasn't got very far... I'm not aware of any my lecturers using the 'accepted' spelling in the time I've been at University... --Shastrix 19:36, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

  • Why does this seem so weird? I am guessing this is one of strangest arguments ever heard on Wikipedia. The correct spelling is S-U-L-F-U-R. The other spelling is S-U-L-P-H-U-R. Case closed, you are dismissed. We do not need all this junk cluttering up the discussion page. I really do not understand why it matters. The only thing of immediate importance is that only one type is used in the article. Now quit messing up the talk page!--uki--71.145.143.245 14:19, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
If you think this argument is strange - or if you are about to register a complaint about the apparent preferance for US spelling - take a look at the furore caused by Wikipedia following the IUPAC preferred spelling of "aluminium" over "aluminum": Talk:Aluminium/Spelling --Danward 18:05, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
    • It seems to me that it's you that are strange. As far as I can tell, the person is not arguing anything. They are just wondering why the IUPAC adopted sulfur instead of sulphur since it doesn't make sense to them. They are not suggesting as far as I can tell that anyone change the naming of the article or anything of the sort (unlike occurs with the aluminium article). It is simply a interesting discussion of background and history and logic of the choice of IUPAC. Of course, what they are talking about is OT and is best left for discussion elsewhere. However I don't get why you've gotten so worked up about it. Just tell them that their discussion, although interesting, is not about improving this article and so is best left for elsewhere. Nil Einne 15:22, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sulphur dioxide & hydrogen disulphide confusion

The Precautions section seems to confuse sulfur dioxide and hydrogen disulfide. Isn't the smell-deadening effect specific to the latter? (Methinks that SO2 would go straight from pungent to painful to lethal.) Also elemental sulfur does not seem to be as dangerous as its compounds.Jorge Stolfi 23:13, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I agree the precautions section needs serious corrections. It claims the smell-deadening effect for sulphur (Jorge is right, it's actually H2S), and describes elemental sulphur itself as "deadly" (actually it's toxicity is low.) In addition, the toxic effects of inhaling sulphur dioxide are wildly exaggerated; it's a significant irritant and a respiratory suppressant, it doesn't cause "immediate bleeding"!. I will make corrections when I get time later today, unless someone else does first. (I also intent to expand the allotropes from a single line to a subsection, and move "amorphous sulphur" there from its incorrect position under "compounds"). Securiger 00:59, 29 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Sorry, people... Mea culpa (my bad). I was misinformed. This information was word of mouth from someone I respected, but the words were several years old when I wrote them here, so I must have gotten it way wrong. Please forgive, and please correct me? I would correct the info myself but I know I'm not the expert. Thanks for your attention to detail. Humbly, -- JustAnyone | [[User talk::Justanyone|talk]] 4/28/2004 10:32 pm CDT

[edit] Liquid sulfur allotropes

In liquid stage and in normal pressure, there are 3 sulfur allotropes: A yellow liquid sulfur (S8). Then brown rubber-like mass [(S)n]. Final liquid sulfur allotrope is a brown liquid (S8, S6 etc.)

[edit] Taurine

Taurine is listed as an example of a sulfur-containing amino acid, yet the Taurine page states that it is often misconceived as an amino acid, although it is not.

[edit] Octasulfur

That description of the appearance of Octasulfur is horrible. I STILL don't understand how it looks, even after hours of searching on the web...

A zig-zag ring. Like VVVVV...
David Marjanović | david.marjanovic_at_gmx.at | 2006/3/6 | 22:30 CET
Imagine a ring of V's where each point is an atom of sulfur. Das Nerd 02:19, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] SIR

I came across this soil science and biology related subject today. Hopefully, one of us will be able to develop it into a stand-alone article.

Sulfur-induced resistance (SIR) "defines a phenomenon of enhanced tolerance against pathogens when crop plants are optimally supplied with sulfur."[1] (Question in my mind: fungal pathogens mainly or exclusively?)

"Enhanced tolerance of crop plants with optimal sulfate supply to fungal pathogens provides a new approach to improve plant health and yield." [1]

"SIR has been verified for seven host/pathogen relations."[2]

"The potential of SIR in reducing fungal attacks under field conditions has been estimated to 17-35%. " [2]

"The mechanisms of this sulfur-induced resistance (SIR) are, however, not yet known." [3]

"The role of sulfur (S) in the resistance of crops against diseases became obvious at the end of the 1980s when atmospheric S depositions were so much reduced by clean air acts that S deficiency became a widespread nutrient disorder in European agriculture. ... It has been long known that foliar applied elemental S has a fungicidal impact but only recently could it be shown that soil-applied S in the form of sulphate also had a significant effect on the health status of crops. A significant repressive effect of soil-applied S on the infection of oilseed rape with Pyrenopeziza brassicae, grapes with Uncinula necator, and potato tubers with Rhizoctonia solani was found. The results of these experiments indicate that S metabolites are involved in disease resistance and support the concept of sulphur-induced resistance (SIR). The S metabolism of plants offers several possibilities to combat fungal attacks and different metabolites were investigated with respect to their role in SIR. For instance elemental S depositions in the vascular tissue of resistant cocoa (Theobroma cacao) in response to infection with Verticillium dahliae were attributed to the toxicity of elemental S. Other mechanisms to combat biotic stress, which are provided by S metabolism, involve glutathione (GSH), phytoalexins, glucosinolates, and the release of S-containing volatiles. H2S is cytotoxic and therefore a relationship between increasing H2S emissions and the resistance of crops against pest and diseases is possible." (and this source continues with additional background information from there)[3]

[1] http://sulfur.ipk-gatersleben.de/research.htm

[2] http://www.idw-online.de/pages/de/news135270

[3] http://jxb.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/55/406/2305

Paleorthid 19:34, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Sulfuric Acid

A description of the mechanism by which sulfuric acid is created in the Environmental Impact section would be appreciated.

[edit] Odor?

Like my chemistry teacher, the article states that sulfur is odorless. But I can smell it. The odor is very distinctive -- and totally different from the famous stench of hydrogen sulfide with which it is impossible to confuse. What am I smelling when I sniff at sulfur crystals?

David Marjanović | david.marjanovic_at_gmx.at | 2006/3/6 | 22:32 CET

Raw Sulfur is odorless when it is pure S atoms, the odor is caused by the S ions that occur in very small quantitis to the bulk.Das Nerd 02:15, 7 March 2006 (UTC)


Sulfur in its solid state has a finite vapor pressure, and sublimes to form a gas, which will eventually condense into crystalline form again. This process is one way to purify raw sulfur, by collecting the sublimed crystals on a condenser (flowers of sulfur). Sulfur vapor has a distinctive odor, not altogether unpleasant, and this is what you are detecting when you sniff sulfur crystals.
Most sulfur compounds reek like ass.Cameron Nedland 17:25, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Whatever happened to valency?

I was very surprised to see that the article doesn't mention the valencies of sulphur. Surely they should be in the infobox? Loom91 16:49, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

  • The valency information is listed in both the article and info box. It is listed under Oxidation states, the accepted term to describe the outermost electron shell and bonding nature.Das Nerd 05:33, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
    • So wikipedia articles are only for those who know everything to begin with. No need to make it accessible to the millions who know valency by the name valency and not oxidation states? Should accessibility be sacrificed to make way for jargon? Loom91 07:19, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
      • Nay, oxidation state is the term that is taught these days as opposed to the dated term valency. I learned it initially as valence theory (not so many years ago in high school) and it progressed onto oxidation states. If you check the articles on valence and valency it should refer you in the article to oxidation states in some manner.Das Nerd 01:56, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
        • My point is that it PROGRESSED into oxidation states. Few people have a higher education in chemistry. A person looking for the valency of an element may arrive at the wikipedia article on that element and it doesn't seem a good thing to turn him away just because we couldn't resist the temptation to show off how much we know. Loom91 07:48, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
          • Firstly, this is an encyclopedia not a text book. A user who wants to know about valency, should check out the valency article. It's not a matter of showing off how much we know but a matter of accuracy and consistency. For example, just because the average user may not know the difference between a bacteria and a virus, it doesn't mean we should use the two terms interchangably. Instead, we use the terms accurately and let the user find out for what the difference between the two are. Nil Einne 15:15, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

see also related Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Elements#Valency in infobox --Femto 15:23, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Spelling confusing

The IUPAC adopted the spelling "sulfur" in 1990, as did the Royal Society of Chemistry Nomenclature Committee in 1992. This spelling has begun to replace its variant in official use, unlike aluminum, a spelling which is not commonly used outside North America.

This is rather confusing. The preferred spelling for aluminium according to IUPAC is aluminium, aluminum is only an alternative (but not preferred) spelling. So it's not surprising that aluminum is not used outside the US and there's no reason for aluminum to replace aluminium in official literature, indeed it's the other way around. Nil Einne 14:57, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Why do we even need to mention aluminum at all? There are lots of words that are spelled differently in different countries. Joe --68.0.212.218 15:55, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "sulvere" ?

"Sulvere" is a word not found in my Sanskrit dictionary—nor does a googling of the form Devanagarized return any results—and the presence of an L indicates it would be a loanword anyway. According to the page history, an anon already brought this point up but the statement was later removed without special comment by User:Eudyptes, who however retained that anon's unsourced conjecture on the word's Arabic origin, which is still in the article. A quick Google Book Search shows it's not hard to find any shortage of books mentioning "sulvere" in books on chemistry, but . . . I'd like to see an appearance of "sulvere" in a Sanskrit reference or its usage in a Sanskrit text, and reason it should appear here (as opposed to, say, the language it borrowed the word from). —Muke Tever talk 21:33, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

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