Talk:Sukhoi Su-27

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How can the USSR-leaders have voted for a plane against the F-15 and F-16 in 1969; both US planes weren't operational at that time! A mistake in the year, or in the planes? Jeronimo 00:16 Jul 29, 2002 (PDT)

erm, I just wrote what I read in a newspaper. Probably the names are wrong. wojpob
OK, it might be a really old question now, but they knew what was under development, of course, and acted to develop a reply, same as military planners always do.

The F-15 was being developed in 1969, but the F-16 wasn't developed until a few years later. The Russians may have had plans as early as 1969 for a plane that could mix it up with the F-15 but they would not have incorporated the threat the F-16 presented until the 70s.

I introduced some technical data from a Russian reference book "Modern Combat Aircraft: Reference guide", ISBN 985-6163-10-2). I think that as this information constitutes merely reference data that is otherwise in public domain, I do not violate the copyright. What do you think about it? --Uri

As far as I know, it is impossible to copyright facts, so you're safe here. On the other hand, the authors of this book have collected this data in a book, so it may be required to quote them as the source of these facts. That would be good practice anyway, since facts may differ between sources. Jeronimo 02:20 Jul 29, 2002 (PDT)
Thanks, I did so. --Uri

On a different note, I have experimented before with some standardising of the aircraft pages at F-117 and Fokker Dr.I. So far, my idea of standardising has stopped at putting all the characteristics in a table. Does any of the editors to this page - Uri, WojPob, others? - have any other suggestions on this? Maybe we can work out some general template for this kind of pages. I've done something similar with the WikiProject Countries, and a pretty good template has come up for the country pages (see examples at Netherlands, Liechtenstein and United States). Interested? Jeronimo 02:30 Jul 29, 2002 (PDT)

Yes, but too often the data is in different units as well, so we need to agree on these too. --Uri

Sure, that was one of the topics that need to be addressed. I just made up the table of specifications looking at those that appear most often; there are (many) more. Other topics:

  • Structure of the text; it may be useful to designate sections for the text that should at least be included.
  • Versions of the aircraft: I've for now included the different versions int he specifications table, but this may grow very large for some planes; maybe it's more useful to make a separate table
  • Differences between military/commercial aircraft

I hope to look at this topic later this week. Jeronimo

Has their been any comparative evaluation between the Su-27 and, say, the F-15 (which I gather would be the most directly comparable US plane). ISTR the Mig-29 was a better dogfighter than the F-15, but was unlikely to get the chance as the American plane's long-range missiles would have most likely destroyed it before they even saw each other. --Robert Merkel

I believe so. Your surmise sounds pretty-much spot on to me. (By the way, if you are interested in this stuff, Robert, especially with regard to Australian equipment decisions, email me. I have a very interesting thing I could dig out for you.) Tannin 10:21 Feb 9, 2003 (UTC)

Yes, I have heard about some trainig fights between Su-27 & F-15, but how trustable results are?

I've deleted this sentence: "The Su-33 is the only aircraft to have enough thrust to start from a carrier without the use of a catapult." This is clearly wrong, because any VTOL plane or helicopter obviously can. Perhaps this was meant to say "the only non-VTOL aircraft," but that would still be incorrect: Brazil flies A-4 Skyhawks from their carriers, and IIRC France flies the Alize from theirs. I couldn't figure out how to write the sentence correctly, so I struck it. -- Ortonmc 02:25, 17 Sep 2003 (UTC)

I've added a WikiProject Aircraft data table to the article. --Tomwalden 08:05, 19 Jun 2004 (UTC)

The PFI program was motivated by Soviet awareness that the Americans had LAUNCHED what would become the F-15 program. The Sukhoi engineers said they actually waited at a couple of points to see what the Americans would do so they'd know what they were competing against! --ArgentLA 15:47, 15 Nov 2004

The F-15 plans could have been stolen Dudtz 8/20/05 3:16 PM EST

whats this "Pero" radar??? -PurCitron. phanx

Contents

[edit] Maneuverability

"The usefulness of the 'Flanker's' maneuverability in real-world combat is hotly debated, with some western experts claiming it is inferior to the F-22 Raptor and Eurofighter Typhoon. With the advanced capability of modern air-to-air missiles, its turn performance may be of little actual benefit in a real fight." This seems to be unsupported speculation. What 'western experts'? I am not sure if the debate over whether manuverability is important belongs in this article, but in any case, I suggest that these statements need to be supported/referenced or deleted.

--Profhobby 22:31, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Pull it. The contributing editor bears the burden of proof. - Emt147 Burninate! 08:11, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merging with J-11

I'd like to propose merging the Shenyang J-11 article into Su-27 main article. The J-11 is a Chinese-assembled Su-27SK with Russian-supplied kits and I don't think there's enough variation it in to be a different aircraft. -- Adeptitus 17:57, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Support, the changes are minor enough to be put in this article and the Shenyang J-11 article is quite short. I've taken the liberty of adding the merger tags to the articles. - Dammit 18:25, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Neutral I think we have a number of articles discussing the different variants of the basic Su-27. In such a case the Chinese version is rightfully considered a separate one. IMO we should take care to expand and create and inter-version navigation template, with possible development trees. Reducing amoung of variants is indeed inconsistent.
On the other hand if the current version is but a local designation then a more suitable family of articles would Flanker operations in China where this and other Chinese use of Su-27 family would be at length covered. --Kuban Cossack 20:28, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Support —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Itake (talk • contribs) 00:31, 25 July 2006 (UTC).
Oppose. It's an aircraft of Chinese airforce, and, while it's really Su-27, many people may look for it, and it deserves some explanation, being about the best (if no other Su-27 variant comes in) aircraft of China. CP/M (Wikipedia Neutrality Project) 20:35, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
Oppose. I agree, the J-11 maybe a variant, but it still is owned by China, and the Chinese version will have its diffrences from the SU-27, so it should remain on its own page.
Support.The Shenyang J-11 and the Mig 29 are the same planes, it's just that the Shenyang J-11 is a Mig 29 built in China and J-11 is the designation the Chinese use. As dammit has said, the J-11 page is quite short meaning that by merging them there will be a greater amount of information available on the J-11. User: Gazza 19:50, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
"J-11 and the Mig 29 are the same planes" that is really funny sounding comment TestPilot 04:00, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
Oppose. The Shenyang J-11 and the Mig 29 are different planes. The Mig 29 and Su-27 was built using the same documents supplied by the russian government, but the two fighters are quite different. Also, the chinese J-11 is far different than the Su-27 in that it posses domestic engines and other equipment. They are not the same aircraft.
Oppose. I believe that J-11 and Su-27 shared alot of simliarity, but it's built by two different countries, the Russia and Chinese
Oppose. The J-11 is built with Chinese domestic equipment, and in the future the J-11 will possibly have it's own variants. Two seperate articles are appropiate
Oppose. I basically agree with all the 'Oppose' comments above. RPharazon 04:17, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
Oppose I agree, it deserve separate article. TestPilot 03:58, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I removed tag. Discussion seems to agree on oppose. TestPilot 20:41, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Putting bullets on target

I think there should be some supporting evidence as to whether or not the IRST gunsight is more accurate than a radar mode. Although this is largely irrelevant to much of anything, I find it difficult to believe that any difference between the two insofar as aiming a gun is significant.

JaderVason, the improvement is AFAIK in the accuracy of rangefinding. A typical radar is not really all that accurate in range (say about a hectometer), while the lasers are accurate to a few meters. This improves the accuracy of the ballistic calculation (better data). I'd see if I can scrape up some references along this line of thought when I get home. Kazuaki Shimazaki 03:59, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Question about the tale section

What is in the pointy thing that extendes beyond the engines is it ECM gear or something like that --Paladin 18:04, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Iran deliveries

Deleted from the page as completely unreliable and unsupported by any source whatsoever:


Iran is said to be receiving Su-27 -under the contract made in early 90s with USSR- to complement the dwindling numbers of US aircraft, and complement the existing fleet of MiG-29 and Su-24; the fighter aircraft have been modernized but no data is available on the variant of these Flankers.[citation needed]

212.188.108.174 01:42, 10 December 2006 (UTC) Dietmar

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