Talk:Subud
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Contents |
[edit] PLEASE ADD YOUR COMMENTS AT THE END OF THIS PAGE!!!!!
[edit] Outline of Additions to the Subud Article
(These will be placed after "Organization" at end of Introduction)
- History of Subud
- Bapak's childhood and youth
- Spiritual teachers refuse to teach Bapak
- Bapak receives his own direct revelation independent of teachers
- The period of 1,000 nights
- WWII and Subud
- "Soeboed" registered as an official organization (1947)
- Husein Rofe and the spread of Subud
- Bapak gets invited to Combe Springs, England (1957)
- Life at Combe Springs
- Bapak cures the actress Eva Bartok
- Bapak's "Talks" to Subud members
- Bapak begins to travel
- Faisal Sillem and the "Tape Preservation Unit" in Belgium
- Subud in differing cultures
- Subud and Process Thought
- Subud and the future
- MORE TO COME.......
Hello Aliman -- I am a member of Subud here in Michigan and have been working on cleaning up the main article. I just wanted to say that I like your proposed outline, but would vote for it to be a separate article "History of Subud". --Ganymede23 17:15, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Proposed Change to the "Controversies" Section
Folks, please let me know what you think about condensing this section and replacing it with the following text:
Controversies As the latihan is uniquely different for each individual, everyone's beliefs and awareness will be different in content and nature. Therefore the points mentioned below do not represent Subud as a whole, but will only apply to member’s personal opinions regarding the subjects at hand. Controversies often vary from country to country where different issues at different times tend to take on their own momentum. Subud has been criticized as being simplistic in that it suggests that the latihan can resolve deep seated issues; that it is a religion and Bapak has been looked upon as its Guru, and that (because he practiced Islam as his religion) his Muslim background permeates the association. Other issues focus on organizational inertia, financial irregularities, and interpersonal conflicts. These often deal with conflicts with the association adopting non-discrimination policies, failure of international enterprises or conflict with “helpers” who allegedly become too rigid when following Bapak’s guidance.
Responses Apart from the individual processes of its members, Subud as a whole has an evolving nature and over the years has been acquiring a maturity that has left behind its birthing pains. Those who embark on the Subud path must be sure that they are ready to face things about themselves and/or others that may be uncomfortable or otherwise challenging. (This is part of the reason for the three-month waiting period, so that applicants can be fully briefed and have time to decide if this path is suitable for them.) Some persons are on the type of spiritual or social search that Subud cannot help them with. While anyone may join Subud, it is not for everyone. For example, there are no specific religious beliefs associated with Subud or the latihan, so any individual coming to Subud looking for the kind of social structure that is present in traditional religious institutions, might be disillusioned.
Criticism regarding the organizational structure of Subud has been valid as it has grown over the years. Financial accountability and transparency have been a major concern in some countries. Accounts are audited by Ernst & Young and are available on-line for review. It must be noted that helpers and committee members are ordinary people with varying degrees of experience and skill with respect to their duties. Patience and forbearance are advised when interacting with volunteers who may be long on enthusiasm but short on interpersonal skills or organizational expertise.
(Note that these controversies are written mainly from the point of view of a Western person - Subud is a worldwide movement and thus encompasses many different peoples and cultures).
If people don't object, I will go ahead and make this edit one week from today. --Ganymede23 16:04, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
-- Update: I have gone ahead and made this edit. I am also going to archive most of the rest of this page. Ganymede23 15:41, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] POV
To say it is not a religion seems a bit POV. Many do consider it a religion.
- But the vast majority of Subud members themselves do not consider it a religion. --Ganymede23 12:49, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Neutral POV
I find this article deficient in many areas, with regard to Neutral POV. For example, the members may not call it a religion, but the Government of Italy calls it an Islamic cult, and the Government of Malaysia calls it a 'deviant sect' of Islam. Most academics class it as a kebatinan movement.
Refer <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view>: "The neutral point of view is a means of dealing with conflicting views. The policy requires that, where there are or have been conflicting views, these should be presented fairly. None of the views should be given undue weight or asserted as being the truth, and all significant published points of view are to be presented, not just the most popular one. It should also not be asserted that the most popular view or some sort of intermediate view among the different views is the correct one."
Here are other sentences that seem to violate this "non-negotiable" policy. For instance:
"As these experiences proceeded, Bapak gained insight into people and situations that he did not possess before."
"One does not make any image or recite any mantra, but one may receive a feeling of vibration from within that is a contact with God or the Great Life Force. In essence, what is received in the latihan is the 'holy spirit' or 'divine light' which is similar to the contact that members of world religions may have experienced in earlier times when humankind could feel closer to God."
"The Divine Power, which works from within oneself during the latihan, will bring to each person who is able to receive it, what is needed by that person to complete the reason why s/he was born at this time. Initially the spiritual exercise involves a purification, which makes room for deeper receiving. The latihan continues to work 24 hours a day -- not only when one is "doing" the latihan. Through time and regularly doing one's latihan, a person may experience a personal change and development in every aspect of their daily life and being."
Such passages do not read like an encyclopedia article, but rather like a Subud brochure. To quote the reminder at the bottom of this very edit box. "Encyclopedic content must be verifiable." The editors define verifiable like this: "The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. "Verifiable" in this context means that any reader should be able to check that material added to Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source. Editors should provide a reliable source for material that is challenged or likely to be challenged, or it may be removed."
I think this article needs to be substantially edited down, by the excision of unverifiable material.
The 'criticisms' sections should not be followed by rebuttals. In fact, if Neutral POV were followed, there would be no need for a 'criticisms' section, since the entire article would be balanced.
Other areas in which the article could IMO be improved:
- editing of sections such as the subud symbol section, which provides written descriptions of the symbol (the picture is enough)
- careful attention to the overall article length <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Article_size>
- addition of academic articles and scholarship references. I know of about five authors (no time just now to find them ... later.)
- citation of some critical websites
gatotkatja 11:48, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Proposed edits
I just read in the 'common mistakes' section that a common mistake was to critique, rather than just propose the changes. Sorry!
Here are some proposed changes to the first sections...
Subud (pronounced IPA: [subud]) is an international spiritual association of people of all religions as well as people with no religious affiliation. Members practice the latihan kejiwaan (Indonesian: "spiritual exercise") described in Subud literature as a spontaneous receiving which it is claimed leads to an awakening of the inner self and a greater ability to find direction in life. Subud literature also attributes to this exercise a direct connection with God or "the Great Life Force".
The Subud movement was founded in the 1920s by Muhammad Subuh Sumohadiwidjojo (1901-1987) often called Bapak (Indonesian: "Father", or "Mister") by himself and members of Subud. The "Subuh" in Bapak's name has no relation to the name Subud.
Subud was introduced into the West in 1954 by Husein Rofé. It was further spread in 1957 by John G. Bennett. It has since spread to over 80 countries throughout the world, with a worldwide membership of about 13,000.
The name "Subud"
The name "Subud" is an acronym for three Javanese words of Sanskrit derivation, Susila Budhi Dharma.
What these words mean depends on whether refering to 1) the original Sanskrit root word meaning, 2) definitions in a Javanese or Indonesian language dictionary, or 3) the definition given by Pak Subuh, who interpreted these words as follows:
Susila means to be able to live according to the Will of God as really true human beings.
Budhi indicates that in every creation, in every creature of God, there is a Divine Power which works within as well as outside oneself.
Dharma means the possiblity for every creature to surrender completely to the Will of God, of whom humans are only a creation and have, therefore, inevitably to submit to the Will of their Creator.
Susila Budhi Dharma (Subud) means to follow the Will of God with the help of the Divine Power that works both within us and without, by the way of surrendering oneself to the Will of Almighty God.
These definitions represent an Islamicization of the original Indic terms [ref].
History
Subud started in Central Java, during a period which saw the resurgence of interest in traditional Javanese mysticism, partly as a reaction to Dutch colonialism, and partly as a the result of the influence of Theosophy, which re-valued the traditional mystical teachings of the countries in which it operated [ref]. In Central Java, this resurgence took the form of hundreds of kebatinan movements, each consisting of a dozen to a hundreds of followers around a charismatic teacher. Following Javanese tradition, each kebatinan movement has an origin story in which the founder is visited by the wahyu (revelation; authorisation to teach or to rule; often represented as a ball of light). Kebatinan movements often represented themselves as completely original, and without precedent. Before starting Subud, Pak Subuh sought spiritial teaching from a number of kebatinan teachers, including a Naqshbandi lodge under the leadership of Kiai Abdurrachman, and the study of Pencak Silat, a Javanese art with roots in Chinese 'energy' philosophy.
Subud's origin story, as related by Pak Subuh, was that in that in 1925 he was taking a late-night walk, when he had an unexpected and unusual experience. Suddenly he found himself enveloped in a brilliant light, and looked up to see what looked like the sun falling directly into his body. His whole body trembled, and he thought that he was having a heart attack. He went directly home, lay down on his bed, and prepared to die. He felt that if it was his time to die, he could not fight it, so he surrendered himself to God completely.
Instead of dying, however, he was moved to stand up and perform movements similar to his normal Muslim prayer routine. This seemed very strange to him, because he was not moving entirely from his own volition; rather he was compelled or guided by what he interpreted as the power of God. He experienced a kind of "inner teaching" where he was given to understand a variety of things spontaneously. Bapak claims that this same kind of experience happened to him for a few hours each night over a period of approximately 1000 days. He slept little, but was able to continue working full-time and going to school [Ref].
Pak Subuh also claimed that these experiences gave him insight into people and situations that he did not possess before, and that he was able to spontaneously "receive" or know things through this guidance. Around 1933, he reported that he received that if other people were physically near him while he was in a state of latihan, that this experience would begin in them also. This initiation became termed the 'opening'.
Although only a young man in his early 30s, Pak Subuh's reputation spread, and many people came to him to be initiated into Subud. These in turn could initiate others.
In 1954, Husein Rofé, an English linguist who had been living in Indonesia since 1950, met Bapak in Jakarta. Rofé had been searching for a spiritual path and became the first non-Indonesian to be initiated in the latihan. Subud moved outside of Indonesia when Rofé attended a religious congress in Japan in 1954. Thereafter, Subud spread to Hong Kong and Cyprus. In 1957, Rofé (who was now in London) suggested to the English impresario John G. Bennett that he invite Pak Subuh to Britain. Bapak accepted and came to visit Bennett's centre at Coombe Springs. It was at this time that many UK followers of G. I. Gurdjieff were initiated into Subud, including Bennett himself, though he later felt Subud to be inadequate. Over the next 14 months Pak Subuh visited many countries before returning to Indonesia.
In the late 1950s and early 1960s, Subud grew to near 10,000 -- about its current membership. That growth was propelled by Bennett's recommendation of Pak Subuh to the Gurdjieff network worldwide, and to the apparent healing of the Hollywood starlet Eva Bartok, which garnered widespread press. Subud held the first of its four-yearly World Congresses in 1959 in Coombe Springs, and the second in 1963 in Briarcliff, New York. This was to be followed by the "Asuhan" (Indonesian: upbringing) at a new Subud centre in Cilandak, South Jakarta. These plans were interrupted by the 1965 coup which saw Indonesian President Sukarno toppled in favour of General Suharto, and some 500,000 Indonesians killed in a bloody purge. Subud did not hold a congress in Indonesia until 1971.
At the 1971, Pak Subuh announced a major move of Subud into 'enterprises', business which could achieve three goals (a) make Subud's mark on the world (this was presented through the traditional Javanase story of the breaking of Bima's shell), (b) provide Subud members opportunities to work together in a way that was consonant with their spiritual practice, and (c) fund Subud charitable enterprises and the Subud organisation. Pak Subuh himself started two enterprises, the 10-story S. Widjoyo office building in downtown Jakarta, and a bank: Bank Susila Bakti. Groups of members started other major enterprises: a hotel in England called Anugraha, and Project Sunrise in Sydney. By the early 1980s, all of these enterprises were in financial difficulty, and only the office building survived into the 1990s. It is currently (2006) being sold. These failures put a damper on the enterprise push. In the late 1990s, one more attempt was made in the form of Premier Hotels. It too collapsed in the early 2000s.
Pak Subuh also encouraged members to invest in Central Kalimantan, and a small township was established at Tengkiling near Palangka Raya, including a small school and hotel. Other members started a junior miner, Kalimantan Gold Corporation, listed on the Vancouver stock exchange, still in the exploration stages.
Pak Subuh died in 1987. However, the Subud community continues to this day as an international organisation, with local latihan groups and premises in more than 80 countries. There is growing concern that a disproportianate number of the current membership consists of the pioneers, now in their 60s and 70s, and that changes have to be made in order to make Subud more attractive to the current generations of young people.
gatotkatja 13:01, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
Other then the parts about Javanese mysticism, Dutch colonialism, Chinese energy and Sukamo coup, I think the above changes work fine. Using this material might imply that there is some relationship between mysticism, energy, coups and Subud. In fact there were many historical events going on in the 50s-60’s that don’t have any connection to Subud.
I’m not sure that ‘growth was propelled’ by Bennett or Bartok. Might not be the right word. Also the final sentence about making changes for young people seems more opinion then reality.
Lucian
