Talk:Straße des 17. Juni

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[edit] Title of the article

"ß" is not a letter of the English alphabet and should not be used in titles of articles at the English Wikipedia. I must therefore insist that this article be abolished and the other one retained. Adam 14:15, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

The ß is used in many articles on Germany related subjects and this issue has been discussed at length previously. Some pages have gone through requested moves, that is probably the right venue if anyone wants to start discussing moving the article. Stefán Ingi 20:15, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

How can the use of a letter which most English-speakers don't recognise be justified? Most people will read Straße as "Strabe." Do we call Beijing "北京"? - no, we use the Roman alphabet. By the same token, we should use "ss" instead of "ß", as the Germans themselves frequently do. Adam 03:12, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, this is one view. Another view is that ß belongs to the latin alphabet and that is the alphabet used for articles on Wikipedia. That makes 北京 an incomparable example. I also agree that many people will not recognise ß and confuse it with b, but these might not be the people who are most likely to read an article about a particular street in Berlin, the people who are likely to read this article are also likely to interested in Germany and are therefore quite likely in either knowing or be interested in knowing that Straße is spelled with an ß. We also have the template at the top of the article to point out the use of ß and where people can get more information on the letter. Finally, neither Straße des 17. Juni nor Strasse des 17. Juni is a title in English and both require some knowledge of German to be able to read. Stefán Ingi 09:27, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

"ß" does not belong to the Latin alphabet, it is a peculiarity of German orthography not used elsewhere. However, I know the futility of arguing with Wikipedia's culture of competitive pedantry, in which the desire of some writers to be more "correct" than everyone else is always placed above the convenience of readers, so I will not push the point further. Adam 10:05, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

I see by the way you are Icelandic. Are you one of those guilty of scattering "Þ" and "ð" around the English Wikipedia? This is an even worse insult to readers. Adam 10:08, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

What is an insult to readers is to insult their intelligence by assuming they're incapable of comprehending the letters þ, ð, and ß. Angr (talk) 19:48, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

From the other side, it can also be perceived as an insult to readers to assume that they must know those letters. I am opposed to their use in article titles here on the English Wikipedia -- they're difficult to type, difficult to pronounce, interfere with proper sorting of articles in category listings, make linking more difficult, and don't always show up properly on everyone's web browsers. They also sometimes cause problems with copy-pasting, and make URLs unnecessarily complicated. They're fine to use within the body of the article, but should stay out of titles. --Elonka 20:37, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Trying to merge

I have attempted to merge the pages and edit it at the same time. My idea was to organise the article so that after the lead section the other sections formed something of a historical account of the street. Feel free to edit, comment, improve, etc, of course. Stefán Ingi 20:15, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Original research

There is some very specific information in this article, such as, "Before World War II the street was called Charlottenburger Chaussee because it ran from the city to Charlottenburg. It was made into a paved road in 1799 and due to Berlin's rapid growth in the 19th century it became a major thoroughfare to the affluent western suburbs." This is definitely not "common knowledge" info. Where did it come from? The source of the information should be included in a "References" section on the article, or linked in some other way per WP:CITE. Or, if no source can be provided, the information should be removed, per policy at Wikipedia:Verifiability. --Elonka 13:45, 29 October 2006 (UTC)