Talk:Stoke Newington

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[edit] Rubbish, this entry.

Eek. This district is just gagging for reorganisation. But let's just get some pix first, probably the most photogenic district in Hackney and it's got nowt...

Tarquin Binary 04:08, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

I don't like to delete, and I am working on a rewrite for N16 where I hoped to clear the decks here entirely, but I can't carry on seeing the stooopid Green wellie thing anymore. Ain't just that it's POV in the first place - the 'Green Wellie Brigade' and 'New Age Hippies' blooming well *hate* each other everywhere in the UK (right or wrong, they tend to be at opposite poles on the *green* spectrum) - and I have never heard anyone, whether they live in N16 or not, use the term 'Stoke Newington green wellie'. So it's gone.

'nough rant. I think it might be OK later to call the place 'Little Islington' (in a limited sense, that is, given the diversity of Islington borough itself), people would understand that...

Hope rewrite will be here soon :)

Tarquin Binary 05:15, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

I endorse the welly deletion, it was annoying me as well. I think I have some more photos too :-) John Eden 10:10, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

Cool! I have many more pix too, but I feel that it needs much much more copy, which I am agonising about. Anyway - I don't think my initial pic works as a thumb (200px) - do you know how I do an 250px thumb? Mebbe I just need to crop in and artwork and link to the original.

Tarquin Binary 01:14, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

What a strange page ... me I'm a bit dubious about Stokie's claims to contain the largest concentration of listed buildings in Hackney. Central Hackney with St Augustine Tower, St Johns, Town Hall, Old Town Hall, Hackney Empire, Central Hall and Library, etc. etc. and even dear old Homerton with Sutton House, and the 22 grade II listed structures on Sutton Place, Clapton Sq.; further afield, the Geoffry Museum. They all seem to have a greater concentration to mind ... Maybe he counted all the individual graves in Abbney Park cemetary. Still, give 'em credit, they tried, but yes EDIT EDIT EDIT! As ever, good pix Tarquin!

Kevin Thompson 17:44, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Some factual errors : surely Sir Thomas Abbney school is in Stamford Hill, if not beyond? Daniel Defoes is buried in Bunhill Fields, and has a later memorial to him erected there. So, why is his 'gravestone in the library'? Kbthompson 23:21, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hi there, haven't looked in in months

Listed buildings: Well I totted them up all the way to the end of Grade 2, and SN came out top. You may note that I didn't explicitly list all the Grade 2 jobbies, how boring do you want a WP entry to get? The Geffrye is in Shoreditch of course, and Sutton House is in Homerton, Clapton Square is in Clapton (obviously) so none of them can be claimed for Hackney Central, etc etc etc.) But just remove that claim if it bugs you, chucked it in as local colour, I'm deeply fond of all the other districts too.

Yes, of course, Defoe is buried in Bunhill Fields. Duh? Who is claiming otherwise? Don't understand your point here.

Didn't write about Abney's school, that's not my copy. I think that it may be controversial, dunno. But it would be good if someone could add something to the sadly lacking Stamford Hill piece. Go for it.

Tarquin Binary 02:27, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

• Welcome back, Finn; I didn't make the claim that my 'top of my head' list was exhaustive, but I did divide it up geographically. Found the original claim somewhat surprising, that's all ...
• Daniel Defoe (writer - born and lived on Church Street. His gravestone can be seen in Stoke Newington Public Library). Maybe not the intention, but it reads like he's in the library ... (on loan, perhaps?)
• Like most of the Hackney articles, I find it a little geographically challenged - although perhaps not as much as most. There should probably be a distinction made between the old metropolitan boro, and what is stictly Stokie. e.g. I associate the New River and the reservoirs more with the area NW of Stamford Hill - known as New River (ward). Same with the schools list. Maybe it needs a 'Stoke Newington Central' and surrounding areas dealt with separately. (much like Metro boro Hackney got separated up). Post codes are no use, they relate to 1920's post office organisation ...
• I see what you mean about Stamford Hill ... adding mostly, would be a large step forward. Probably something dealing with diversity amongst local orthodox jews, the history of immigration to the area, the food ... Probably end up in a turf war with upper clapton ...

Anyway, I'm glad you're back and hope you find the time to add some of your excellent photos, and text throughout the borough. Sorry if you thought I was being overly critical. Kbthompson 10:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Oh, just looked in again. Please feel free to modify the text on Defoe, I didn't write it anyway, don't care that much...

1) The claim is not that the majority of listed buildings are in SN. Please read it, it says the majority of Grade II* (that is a 'star') listed buildings are in SN compared with any other single Hackney district. I have cited the link, if you think it is wrong, why don't you run through the list yourself? I did not tot up mere Grade IIs, it wouldn't surprise me if most were in SN or if they were not.

I would note, though, with regard to Grade IIs, these are issued frequently as one or two listings to a whole block. I'm not looking it up now, but it is quite likely that Sutton Place only has one or two listings. Similarly there are whole blocks of houses in SN and the rest of Hackney listed similarly, for example the villas on Paragon Road.

2) *Geographically challenged?* *All districts* of London without official lines on a map are geographically challenged, and I personally would not count council wards, they change or are renamed on a whim. Just to put it simply, I have never ever heard anyone say they lived in 'New River' or were going there. *That* needs to be cited much more than the claim that it is an area of Stoke Newington.

If we were to be Wikipedia-consistent and introduce this, then we should really alter *the entire* WP organisation for Hackney (and every other London borough - and every administrative area in Britain come to that) to go from the council level to modern wards. Do you really want that? It is simply best to leave it woolly in some respects (estate agent terminology needs to be resisted, though) and deal with what an area means to people in 2006 (and has meant historically - what is the point of an encyclopedia entry about a place without historical continuity of some sort?). And, quite frankly, since there are traditional areas that need WP stuff doing (like Stamford Hill!) I so think sub-dividing further (Gah. Stoke Newington Central? No one ever says that, no one needs it) is a major mistake.

Yes, I agree that postcodes are frequently useless, like N1. Other times they are not, and I'd argue that N16 is one, simply because its our most meaningful definition here. (Don't give a monkey's about the school list, by the way, I think it's a waste of space, but I'm an inclusionist...)

Abney stuff - had to go and check, the school was not any further north than the current Abney Park. And you do realise that Abney Park was the site of the original manorial lands of *Stoke Newington*? Lady_Mary_Abney Abney_Park Abney_Park_Cemetery. But in any case, I've never heard anyone claim Abney Park to be in Stamford Hill, ever. Till now.

Tarquin Binary 06:04, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm not going to touch anything until I'm sure of my facts, and as you say, in this case I appear to be just as 'geographically challenged'; and there are plenty of other places in Hackney that need explanation and revision. Sir Thomas Abney School, is on Fairholt Rd - at Bethune - a good stretch from what I would call Stokie, but other's mileage may differ. I agree modern boundaries aren't a lot of use, but the reason so many of these things are fuzzy, is that parish and historical boundaries are amended over the years. (look at Upper & Lower Clapton - originally the village of Clopton, and turned into a kind of linear village; cf upper & lower Homerton where the distinction has disappeared). There is a problem when the 'granularity' on the Wiki London pages changes so much - from a couple of streets in central Hackney, to a vast area like the Islington or Stokie pages. Ultimately, I think they should represent neighbourhoods that have some kind of distinct identity (whether historical, or modern). Maybe you're right and it's a vacuous discussion, and I (again) appologise if I appear confrontational, it's not my intention. Kbthompson 09:35, 25 October 2006 (UTC)