Talk:Stockholm syndrome

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[edit] Victimizers?

"...the victims became emotionally attached to their victimizers...". Victimizers? Is this a word? Guv2006 10:36, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Copyright

This may be a copyright violation, and in dreadful need of a rewrite. --Brion 02:29 Sep 25, 2002 (UTC)

There is NO cure for this page. It needs to be deleted and started again.

[edit] Is there a cure?

Well, it has gotten a tad better since I visited last. However, to start from the begining still remains a good idea. At least it doesn't read like 'Codependent No More' literature any longer. The probems with style and grammar remain titanic however. -CLB

I agree - perhaps the statement "to achieve their goals or to escape police." could have been worded better.

See Powell, 1986 "Notes on the Stockholm Syndrome." Powell argues that this is not a psychological state at all but a point of view that develops in a social context. Psychiatrists and psychologists fail to transcend the common sense view that anyone who expresses hostility toward the police and sympathy toward captors must be "sick" and in need of some kind of cure. Powell notes specifically the pleadings of Kristin Ehnmark (Stockholm hostage) to Prime Minister Olaf Palme that hostages wanted police to cooperate with hostage-takers as a way out of the situation. Powell also cites the testimony and accounts of Patty Hearst herself to dispute the medical model of the Stockholm Syndrome. --Anonymous

Sometimes, the victim thinks of the captor as a strong individual, who up to some degree protected them (as they where not killed) when released in trauma their reaction is; 'like to would be as strog as the captor'. In thier mind the only figure who stood above their broken self image during the captivity was the captor. In this lies the answer too, a psychological search for their old self (hypnosis) can bring their old non wounded self image back. Altough this becomes problematic with long time captivity, then only long sessions might have some effect. It's not easy in these cases to accept one is missused by a criminal, while also in the age that one evolving his self image. Because then this self image is wrongly build up, a victim cannt easily replace that, only live on with it, and learn to adebt to what should be normal. Altough again psychologic help in these cases can still do a lot, and is required. Required as otherwise they will act on these wrongly build valeus and can do such harm to others.

[edit] Evolutionary psychology hypothesis

The evolutionary hypothesis should be attributed to someone. I believe it, but it needs references. - Omegatron 23:24, Jun 13, 2005 (UTC)

The evolutionary explanation is an unfortunate edit for this article. The vast majority of commentary on the Stockholm Syndrome does not use this explanatory platform. (anonymous)

Agreed. It's also extremely overgeneralized, like much pop evolutionary psychology (ie the one minute sound bite on a TV breakfast show boiling a complex scientific article into "Men are better at blank, women are better at blank. Don't think, just generalize.")

Sorry, but there is no one-size-fits-all psychological theory that explains all humans and our actions. And if this theory were true, well - why do some people who are captive, but not others, experience Stockholm syndrome? (Did this writer even see the FBI figure showing that less than 10% of captives experience the syndrome?) Why do some people resist bonding with their captors, if they are fighting in the face of implacable, pre-destined behavior? Um, does free will ring a bell? The commonly-accepted wisdom is that we are shaped by a combination of genetics, environment, and situation.

Evolutionary psychology is also extremely controversial - two researchers were virtually booed out of a conference in the early 00s for suggesting that rape is a normal evolutionary response for men who could not find suitable partners. Male *and* female researchers were offended and questioned its validity.

This article makes a similar sweeping judgment without any proof or attribution. If you buy the logic, of those slaves who were taken over the Middle Passage, only those who would willingly be yoked and bonded emotionally to masters would survive; those who would rebel (such as Nat Turner, Sojourner Truth and Harriet Tubman in the US) would be killed. That implies that the descendents of those who survived would have the same psychological drive to fit in at all costs, and bond with those who oppress them. Except that these same descendants rose up to create the American Civil rights movement, and then the Black Power movement.

The author of this passage is ignoring other psychological explanations, such as outwardly changing behavior in order to survive (while inwardly rebelling - has no one thought of the average person who hates his or her job, doing only enough to get by, while secretly rebelling by stealing office supplies? grin). He or she is also, sadly, positing his or her theory as fact. Evolutionary psychology is only one theory, and there are many variables in play when considering how genes are shared down the line, or why people behave the way they do.

I've tried to edit it in such a way that it is clear this is one THEORY, not fact. The "million years" figure is especially suspect. Are we sure it wasn't half a million years? Or 200,000 years? Additionally, the commentary that it would be especially important for women - while there have been traditions in some cultures where brides are stolen, such as in Central Asia, there has also been a long and rather sad tradition of slavery, which involved members of both sexes. Saint Patrick is an example of a slave who adapted to his forced capture, including adapting his new culture's religion. There are absolutely no sources given at all here.67.10.131.229 07:27, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Die Hard?

I realize this is a relatively minor issue, but I removed Die Hard from the pop culture section; none of the hostages exhibit any trait of Stockholm Syndrome. (One character bargained amicably with the hostage takers, which, I assume, is why it was added. However, he did not defend them in any way, nor exhibit any bond with them.)

I think the reason it was added is because it was discussed in the news studio, although there was an (at least in part) intentional mixup between Sweden and Finland. So I am putting it back in. Bergsten 11:05, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] About the FBI article

The paragraph about the fact that 92% shows no sign of the syndrome ends up saying "probably because most captures do not last long enough." The article in no way says that the syndrome must occur given enough time, it does however name other factors than the mere passage of time as more important (for instance whether mental or physical abuse is involved). I am thus removing that part. Bergsten 10:50, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Matlock???!!

He mentions "Matlock" but not "Dog Day Afternoon"?

In a similar vein, maybe the Kim Ki-Duk film Bad guy deserves a mention. [Spoiler Warning] In it, a gang leader has a crush on a woman, who his gang then captures and takes to a brothel. In the end, even when allowed to return to normal life, the woman decides to stay the man's hooker. --Padvi 16:13, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
"Deserves mention" is a putting it a bit strong, I think. The cultural references section of this article is already quite silly. Why would somebody who looks up the article want to discover a list of arcania with often vague references to the syndrome?
Take the idiotic "Manny & Lo" bullet as an example. Maybe we need a separate article: "Stockholm Syndrome in Entertainment".

[edit] Japanese North Koreans

Can someone provide a source, preferrable a video clip, of the incident where some people alledgedly threw their Kim Il Sung badges. Thank you. --Bjornar 20:58, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Can someone at least reword it? It's a massive run-on sentence.

[edit] Parents/chrildren

I wonder if a typical parent/child-relation reminds a bit about the Stockholm Syndrome? I mean, the child is very dependant on the parent(s) and most people claim that they love their family simultaneously as they don't love everyone else they meet in their life. What is the likelihood that almost everyone loves 1 or 2 persons with whom they have a certain relationsship while almost none love most other people they have tight relationsships with, be it teachers, co-workers, neighbours, class mates etc. Yes I know that people have relations with their co-workers, class mates and so on but the "love quote" there is probably less than 10% while it is almost 100% when it comes to parents.

Would be interesting with a professional comment on this in the article.

I see your point, but if the artificial love you're talking about comes from parents treating their children well, then it wouldn't be the same thing. So unless children of abusive parents love their parents more than others do, it's probably still an interesting phenomenon but one that have none of the properties specific to the Stockholm syndrome. And just to avoid any unlikely misunderstanding, this is not the professional comment you were looking for. Bergsten 17:54, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
But as far as I know the hostage keeper in Stockholm where never cruel or violent against the hostage. Of course, the situation could never be classified as relaxed or comfortable for the hostages but under the circumstances it could have been a lot worse. Therefore, again, I think there are similarities to an "average" parent-child relation.

[edit] Trauma bonding

Could someone knowledgeable in this area please have a look at Trauma bonding and see if they are related. Improving Trauma bonding would also be helpful. DJ Clayworth 15:22, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Merger?

I recommend going ahead with the proposed merger. //Big Adamsky 20:32, 5 January 2006 (UTC)


This is not my encyclopedia but I do know something about the subject. So in case this helps -- I read both articles and the capture bonding article is basically about evolutionary psychology. Most stuff on the Stockholm Syndrome does not even reference evolutionary psychology. the Stockholm Syndrome article you do have is really a stub and needs much attention.

The problem with merging capture-bonding was discussed up the talk thread and also on talk for capture-bonding. It is true that Stockholm Syndrome is not often explained in evolutionary psychology terms, but what other biology rooted explanation is there for this trait in humans? If you look at the trends on Google in the use of the term, it becomse clear that EP is far into the process of becoming the theoretical underpinnings for all of the social sciences.
Take a look here for example http://www.fathom.com/feature/35533/

Hkhenson 13:50, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

EP is far into the process of becoming the theoretical underpinnings for all of the social sciences? This a completely absurd statement. And the evolutionary psychology stuff in this article is no more accurate, comprehensive, or recent than psychoanalytic standpoints on the syndrome (and the Freudian stuff is mostly superficial too).

[edit] similar "syndrome" please?

Is there a name for the psychological phenomenon wherein one who is used to a restricted or limited area of living or functioning chooses that even once the limitation or restriction is lifted? Such as when one is incarcerated for a prolonged period and "can't function on the outside" so commits crimes for the sole purpose of being put back into that controlled environment, or when an animal such as a dog has lived most of its life in a cage and chooses to stay in the cage even when the doors are left open. Is there a name for this as a "syndrome" as well? Thank you. Nagelfar 21:59, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] My thoughts

I don't intend to edit this article, no expertise here, but I do want to offer some thoughts.

First, it appears that there is some controversy about the article, but only those who go to the Talk page will discover that. Have you considered adding one of the "disputed" templates to the article?

Second, this article discusses SS much as it is in the public mind, as a bonding of the captive with their captor. However, I have read (perhaps in one of Connie Fletcher's cop books) that the Syndrome is two-sided, with the captor bonding with his captive, and that negotiators actually want the Syndrome to take place, as it makes it less likely that the captor will kill his hostage.

    • If you make the case (and I do) that SS/capture-bonding invokes a rarely turned on particular psychological mechanism, you might as well postulate that humans also have an instinct about how to invoke this mechanism in others. Such examples as are well known indicates that minor acts of kindness along with threats that put the survival of the captive at a serious preceived risk are most effective.

Third, the extensive analogizing to abusive relationships leaves the impression that SS is caused by abuse. A reader could draw the conclusion that a captor who viciously mistreats his hostages is more likely to induce the Syndrome than one who treats them decently. Is there any evidence to support that? I personally would go more with other theories, stressing shared danger and the like. --WacoKid 18:10, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

    • You might look into evolutionary psychology and the hunter-gatherer way of life incoporating capturing women as a way of life to see how these psychological mechanisms on both sides might have evolved. Keith Henson 00:26, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fixed merge with clean-up

Although related concepts, capture-bonding has developed its own applications elsewhere since its inception. Hence, I sourced and cleaned the article. Also see: human bonding (for main page of human bond varieties).--Sadi Carnot 06:20, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jill Carroll

I've changed sentence that suggest Carroll as suffering from this syndrome to "alleged". What was her position before her capture? If she was anti-war previously, I don't think it's far to slap her this label. Moreover, her father insists that she was coerced into saying that. Bottom, the jury is still out there. __earth (Talk) 13:47, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] V for Vendetta

Can Evey's relationship with V in V for Vendetta by Alan Moore be consided an example of Stockholm's Syndrome in books/movies? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Shirley Ku (talk • contribs).

Perhaps... there was a risk for being kept captive by V, even thoguh he didn't really kidnap her. And please sign your comments with four ~ without spaces. Abby724 21:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Pop Culture Lists

The lists for movies, tv, and music are way over the top here. They do not contribute to knowledge of the article. Listing one or two good examples that are well known and display an accurate portrayal of the syndrome are ok, but this is rediculous. Leppy 20:21, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

What about making a seperate list article? ⇒Bayerischermann - 03:59, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Natascha Kampusch

The following doesn't seem to be releveant to the article at all.

Kampusch was able to escape while she was vacuuming Priklopil's car, who apparently received a telephone call and moved away from the noise to hear better. The door was unlocked, and Kampusch bolted to a neighbor's house. Hours later, Priklopil committed suicide by throwing himself under a commuter train.

The following sentence has bad grammar.

What following sentence?
On another note - it took me a while to get what you meant. You mean, because she chose to escape, it does not sound like tru Stockholm Syndrome, right? Except this section of the article is about "alleged" cases of it, not proven cases, so it works, I think, though it could use some cleanup.
It's not so much that it isn't relevant (as she reportedly "mourned" her captor's death after hearing about it, indicating some level of Stockholm Syndrome), as that its potential relevancy to the rest of the reference to Kampusch's ordeal/mental state (in describing her alleged condition exactly) isn't established; that is, she actually chose to escape, so is it really full-blown Stockholm Syndrome? Was it a complicated set of circumstances where she did in fact develop a bond/affection for him, but nonetheless wanted to see her parents and friends from the outside world again (this could explain why she is "mourning his death" - it said she cried and everything, and apparently not out of relief, is the implication. Perhaps she feels guilty for having left, blaming herself for his suicide)? Or, is she simply not wanting to talk about whatever abuse he may have inflicted on her? Both seem plausible, given that she's refused to comment on whether or not he abused her sexually - and the article I read said:
"Police say she had "sexual contact" with her captor but have not elaborated.
Experts say Kampusch is suffering from "Stockholm Syndrome" -- a psychological condition in which prisoners begin to identify with their captors.
So it makes you wonder. However, it does say "experts" say she's suffering from Stockholm Syndrome, so it IS a well-known alleged case now of the condition. I hope it gets cleaned up as more details about the case become available. Runa27 21:24, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


Why was my original entry about her having sex with her modified so heavily?

Kampusch had sexual relations with her captor, when she was asked whether she had been sexually abused, "she said everything she has done she has done voluntarily; he didn't force her." [3]

Was my reference no good? The way it is phrased currently makes it seem more unlikely and therfore less factual than the quote she gave here. Osirisx11 10:53, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Till there is no evidence for that, I think her syndrome is only in "our" minds. My 2. She's only sorry for the death of a man for what we know, but she never talked about sex or anything else, and many times said she would have cut his head, if possible, to leave that house. I would delete it, or at least explain the reasons for being there, instead of only telling his story. Suppositions (and gossip about other's misadventures) are not for an encyclopedia. 7 Sept.

[edit] Lima Syndrome?

Not mentioned anywhere on wikipedia other than this article. The link is invalid. Found one reference only on http://www.health24.com/mind/Cybershrink_says/1284-2864,37248.asp

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