User talk:Steth

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You have new messages (last change).

Contents

[edit] Welcome to the Wikipedia!

Hello, and Welcome to the Wikipedia, Steth! Thanks for the astute correction over on the Chiropractic article. Hope you enjoy editing here and becoming a Wikipedian! Here are a few perfunctory tips to hasten your acculturation into the Wikipedia experience:

And some odds and ends: Boilerplate text, Brilliant prose, Cite your sources, Civility, Conflict resolution, How to edit a page, How to write a great article, Pages needing attention, Peer review, Policy Library, Utilities, Verifiability, Village pump, Wikiquette, and you can sign your name on any page by typing 4 tildes: ~~~~.

Best of luck, Steth, and most importantly, have fun! Ombudsman 13:35, 9 February 2006 (UTC)


[edit] 3 Revert rule warning for article Pseudoscience

Please refrain from undoing other people's edits repeatedly. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia under the three-revert rule, which states that nobody may revert an article to a previous version more than three times in 24 hours. (Note: this also means editing the page to reinsert an old edit. If the effect of your actions is to revert back, it qualifies as a revert.) Thank you.--Deglr6328 03:40, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Applied kinesiology

Your edits to the article Applied kinesiology which consist mainly of the removal of valid references and links to critical sources constitues NPOV violation and borders on vandalization. Stop doing this. --Deglr6328 16:28, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 3RR violation at Pseudoscience

Hi, you violated the three-revert rule on Pseudoscience. I have disabled your editing permissions for 24 hours. Please read our guide on dispute resolution during the time you are unable to contribute to Wikipedia. Feel free to return after your block expires, but take your differences to the talk page and please refrain from edit warring. Cheers, —Ruud 03:58, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] re: need advice

You can email me by clicking here. I do not know if I wil be able to do anything things you are concerned about but I could at least offer advice. —Ruud 23:53, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mass Marketing

More anti-chiros hard at work "mass marketing" their skeptical POV... I would assume. Right now, I am trying to juggle Chiropractic and Pseudoscience articles, but it is overwhelming when I see the other articles with POV against chiropractic (spinal adjustment, vertebral subluxation, DD Palmer, etc.). Thanks for alerting me to this. Nice to meet someone else one the side of NPOV for chiropractic. TheDoctorIsIn 02:07, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Since you are a fan of Fyslee, I thought you like this entry of his. TheDoctorIsIn 17:10, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your vandalism and personal attacks

Your vandalism to the chiropractic has been reported. You have fail to discuss reasons for reverts (other than to abuse other editor and accuse them of POV), engage in personal attacks, and appear convinced you have the right to question other editors about their private lives. When they fail to respond you draw conclusions without evidence then indulge in further personal attack and accusations of conspiracy, followed by further reverts.

For your information the WP definition includes "Vandalism is any addition, deletion, or change to content made in a deliberate attempt to reduce the quality of the encyclopedia."

Your attempts to remove scientific citations from the article, your attempts to remove well sourced material which you do not like, and your personal attacks are not good WP behaviour. Mccready 07:14, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Chiropractic

Hi Steth. I don't think we've been formally introduced.  :) I noticed you just reverted most of the Chiropractic article. You left the statement in the introduction, though. I posted to the Talk:Chiropractic page, pointing out that the lack of any reliable (WP:RS) and verifiable (WP:V) sources in the article in support of that statement really undermines including the lack of "scientific standards" statement in the introduction. Do you feel there is support in the article for its presence in the introduction? I thought, specifically, the fact that the article seems to contradict it being there was quite peculiar:"Some traditional medical practitioners do not believe that chiropractic is science-based." Some does not mean all. And some certainly doesn't sound like support for such a statement to be in the introduction of the article. Thoughts? (And, thanks again, for staying calm and professional through this whole Chiropractic ordeal!) Justen Deal 00:37, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Creating a new page

I've created a page at User:Steth/RfC. You might also want to create a user page at User:Steth and write a little about yourself; people tend to take your less seriously without one. Cheers, —Ruud 21:15, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] RfC re Chiropractic

Steth, I am beginning a RfC against you for violation of WP:LEAD. Your constant reverts removing mention of science from the introduction are in violation of policy. Mccready 12:06, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Hi Steth. AS you know I try to keep neutral and think that all editors have a legitimate role to play. I think that both you and Mccready have valid points; the wording below is a suggestion that reflects article content but doesn't seek to imply that chiropractic is without value. I think it would be good if both of you could put a stormy history behind you and accept as I believe that you are both working honestly and conscientiously in trying to be fair, however imperfect our efforts are sometimes. "Evidence for the clinical efficacy of chiropractic does not meet the scientific standards of evidence-based medicine, but many medical doctors are willing to refer their patients to properly qualified chiropractors." Gleng 15:08, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your level-headedness, Gleng. Perhaps Mccready can cite where he found such a statement that applies to ALL of chiropractic, as well as, how this was determined. You know, ALL of medicine does not meet the scientific standards of evidence-based medicine. In fact, many studies and articles indicate the worrisome high rate of faked "evidence" as well as the often negative influence of drug companies, advertising, gifts, etc.
I am only comparing the two, because the term "evidence-based medicine" has been invoked. If ALL of medicine doesn't meet these standards, why would this be added to an article on Chiropractic? Isn't this, not only an unverifiable opinion being passed off as a fact, but also a double standard? Your thoughts? Steth 15:34, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, you have a fair point. I've just revised the section on Science to try to remove the possible implication that lack of EBM evidence means a treatment is ineffective, this goes some way towards meeting your concerns I think. However some studies of chiropractic have been reviewed, and it is fair to mention their outcomes - I don't know if this is selective citation, and I would support inclusion of any reputable evidence of effectiveness. Gleng 16:13, 3 April 2006 (UTC)


Reply/discussion moved to article Talk page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Chiropractic

Steth 17:00, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vertebral subluxation

Steth,

No real need to keep thanking me for my work on VS. I can see you and Fyslee have a bit of a history, to put it mildly. I haven't gone over and had a look at Chiropractic yet, and I don't know I really should, since there's a fair amount of friction already with Fyslee about VS.

Ithink that you're right; EBM is a scientific way of measuring the impact of a treatment because it takes the philosophical position that treatment must be measurable (evidentially supported) and documented. This, with conditions which are mostly painful and have subtle symptoms not related to lesions and bleeding, such as back pain, is as we both know oft times difficult because people report pain in a very objective fashion.

This is why I disagree with Fyslee. I'm going through a chiropractic treatment. It isn't an immediate cure; my back's still fucked to be honest. But chiro adjustment does help me, short term and long term. It is possible to see spinal maladjustment on x-rays, even I can see that. Maybe the reported benefits and changes are a bit made up, maybe not. I can't make that judgement. Hence why my edit maintains the "chiropractic claims" line; that's NPOV because it does not state anything as fact.

Given you've received flak for reverts...don't worry about watching VS. I can argue toe to toe with skeptics who don't want to admit things and let other points of view on chiro/VS get onto wiki. While NPOV is an ideal, its practically impossible to attain, especially with regards to a lot of alternative medicines (most of which are bullshit in my opinion) where treatments have worked for people, placebo effect or not. I think we have to keep an open mind. Fyslee has his view on the "truth" or otherwise about VS, and its obviously coloured a lot by the 1800's history of Chiro with Palmer, etc. But like I said on the VS talk page, the medical profession is just as full of that kind of history, and times have changed, as has the definition of VS.

Maybe its good not to put on overly glowing advertising style material for VS. But what really irks me is that for a skeptic...there were NO references which even managed to disprove VS or chiro, nada.

Bah. Who knows? Far too much red wine makes me crap on. So, in summary, no need to keep prodding people into responding by parroting praise at me. Just go find some decent references online or something and build the case you want to defend. I've done as much as I can. Rolinator 12:59, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Understood, Rolinator.
Yes, there is some very heavy-handed brute editing here by some with anti-chiro agendas who claim to own all knowledge of anything regardig chiropractic. Pretty funny considering they are neither chiropractors nor patients. They also consider themselves the self-appointed historians. Apparantely the more time they spend trying to damage chiropractic and dehumanize chiropractors and their patients for using chiropractic, the more the authorities they consider themselves to be. It takes a lot of work to hate something this much.
Medicine has more BS (and deaths) Death by Medicine than any field can ever hope to achieve, so it is not surprising that many of the most extreme chiro-haters are involved somehow in the medical field.

Hope you decide to stick around. Thanks, Steth 18:26, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

ackoz 15:37, 21 April 2006 (UTC): Could you please read this Cochrane_Collaboration and maybe do some more reading before u spit the fire around again?

Hi Steth, please keep cool. We're all entitled to our opinions and Talk pages are a good place to express them freely - its opinion in articles we want to avoid, and although we can never completely free ourselves of this I think Fyslee actually tries very hard to be objective in what he does in articles. We also have to characterise different opinions in the articles, and we can do that better when we understand them clearly. I have to say I don't like the way you talk about "hating" chiropractic. I'm a little sensitive about this because what I do attracts real hate - occasional bombs, personal abuse, vandalism, harrassment of families - so let's keep some perspective. Maybe strong views, but that's OK. I've met very few people that I didn't like when I knew them and I'm pretty sure that I'd like both you and Fyslee if I met you, and wouldn't be surprised if you liked each other too. I know some people who feel strongly about animal experiments, doesn't stop me liking them. Smile. The world's a better place for diversity of opinion.Gleng 09:07, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Invitation

The Mediation Cabal

You are a disputant in a case listed under Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases. We invite you to be a mediator in a different case. Please read How do I get a mediator assigned to my case? for more information.
~~~~

--Fasten 16:07, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ARRGGGGG!!!!!

After reading the Wilk summary (thanks 4 the link fyslee) it seems there may be some validity to the assertion that the AMA has not stopped their overt/covert war against chiropractic. For some fun and laughs, do a google search on Stephen Barrett. Apparently the court system in the good ole USA doesn't agree with him.  :) I guess he's up to 20 web sites now. (shakes head) I'm giving myself a tea break, but I'll be back soon for more edit wars and "controversy" with the haters of things not medical. LOL See ya in the trenches.--Hughgr 02:54, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hey

Thanks for the link. I think it's o.k., and from what I've read, B.J. also had the first car in Davenport. He didn't want anybody to be confused over whose car it was so he had his name written on the side.  :) He wrote about his radio experience in one of the "green" books", pretty interesting stuff. He even wrote a book on making radio commercials that was used by nearly every radio station. Ultimatly, make those damn advertistments fun and interesting. He certainly was a visionary, eh. I've been following the farcus on the chiro page. Just not fun having all your edits reverted. Oh well, like scolidoc said, it's the main weakness of WP, anybody can edit, even if they don't have a clue.--Hughgr 05:30, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

You are welcome, Hughgr. I agreee with your sentiment. Keep up the good work. Steth 15:25, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Missing link?

Steth, this link does not seem to lead where it's supposed to on the Daniel David Palmer Page.

Wasn't sure if that is where you wanted it to go. Although, I learned a lot about ICA practice guidelines! --Dematt 01:59, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ChiroTalk

I noticed recently that Chirotalk has started its own self-promoting article on WP. I nominated it for deletion. I thought you might want to chime in with your thoughts here. TheDoctorIsIn 22:58, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Abotnick has twice today tried to delete the AfD template from the Chirotalk page. He has also tried to change the outgoing link to his forum site to have very "spammy" link text - something that he has been warned about previously. I have reverted his edits twice thus far. Anything that you can recommend doing? How much longer until the article is in fact deleted? Levine2112 21:38, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wording change

No problem by me, I wouldn't mind a completly different wording. Feel free to edit, if I feel there's a problem, I bring it up :)--Hughgr 23:15, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 3RR on chiropractic

 You have been temporarily blocked for violation of the three-revert rule. Please feel free to return after the block expires, but also please make an effort to discuss your changes further in the future.

abakharev 00:17, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] PS

Sorry for putting you through all that. Hope you're not going out of town anytime soon! --Dematt 04:39, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] More fame

I like when he describes me as one particular user dominates the Chiropractic article in this manner and needs to be watched. [1] Levine2112 01:11, 19 August 2006 (UTC)


one particular user dominates the Chiropractic article

Coming from him, that's a high compliment considering his full-time devotion to radical anti-chiropractic fundamentalist extremism. I guess you made his enemies list. Welcome to the club!Steth 03:13, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Personal attack warning

Your personal attacks (see your edit summary) are expressly forbidden by Wikipedia policy. --Davidstrauss 06:15, 23 August 2006 (UTC)


Quite right. But it was made to an editor who gives as good as he gets, and though it may not be PC to admit it, it made me laugh out loud. WP would be a duller place without you Steth, but try to keep these as very occasional treats. I think the point with KV is now well and truly made.Gleng 12:46, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Ditto all that! Don't get yourself kicked out, I would surely miss your candor! --Dematt 12:53, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Chiropractic revert on mainstream view of subluxations

I actually didn't intend to reinsert that sentence. I think you deleted it while I was reverting the removal of "complemetary and alternative". Sorry about that. — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 02:01, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

No problem! Steth 02:07, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Conflict reduction

Hello Steth. I realise we don't see eye to eye on some facts, but please keep personal issues out of the discussion on pseudoscience. If you have a personal issue with me, discuss it civilly on my talk page. Thank you. KrishnaVindaloo 03:50, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I got one of those, too. See this. •Jim62sch• 10:23, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] McCready to be banned for 10-days on Pseudoscience articles

You might want to weigh in your thoughts here, if you haven't already. TheDoctorIsIn 18:41, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mccready is issued a 30 day community probation related to Pseudoscience articles

Hello

Based on the comments left on AN/I, I issued a 30 day topic ban to Mccready. (see Community probation log [2]) Discussion on talk pages is encouraged. Admins can enforce the ban if needed. Crosspost from AN:

Based on this discussion on AN/I [3] and the numerous comments on Mccready's talk page, Mccready (talk • contribs • page moves • block user • block log) is issued a 30 day ban from editing all articles related to the Pseudoscience. Mccready is encouraged to discuss his ideas on the talk pages of these articles. The the suggested sanction for disregarding the article ban is a 24 hour block with the block time adjusted up or down according to Mccready's response. Admins are encouraged to monitor the ongoing effectiveness of this article topic ban and make appropriate adjustments if needed. FloNight 23:26, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Further discussion about the ban or request for enforcement can be made at AN/I or AN. FloNight 01:31, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] You're Invited

Come on over - [Dematts ChiroPractice page]--Dematt 23:40, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Proposal to merge Stephen Barrett, Quackwatch, and NCAHF article

Levine has started three separate proposals to merge these three articles. The discussion for each amalgamation of the merge begins here begins here. I would appreciate you taking the time to give your thoughts for each proposal. Thanks NATTO 02:39, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Please count to ten

Hi Steth, I sure will miss you. Before you respond to KV as I'm sure you'll want to, see [4] as facts are always nice to know. Keep cool.

Many of your edits have made me think. I think you surprised me once when you said we usually agree; but then I saw your point, maybe we have different opinions sometimes, but I think we equally respect the differences between facts and opinions.

Finally, am I right in guessing that you're a cross between Ruby Wax and Dolly Parton? If I'm close, the drinks are on me if and when we ever meet.Gleng 10:54, 29 September 2006 (UTC)


...and again to ten (below). I will make a response to this, but I need to get to ten first too. Btw, single malts are good, but they're for drinking, not keeping. Gleng 12:51, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] RfC

Your user conduct is under scrutiny. I made a request for comment. You can find the link on the vitalism article. KrishnaVindaloo 03:50, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Statement by Gleng

All yours Steth, rather sorry to see the RfC disappear. I'm reverting this so as not to clutter your Talk page, but you can read it in your History Gleng 09:52, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Rag Tag Posse of Snake Oil Vigilantes

I thought you might find this juvenile site fun. Check out the "Who we are" page and take note of its members. Levine2112 19:19, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../s/t/e/User_talk%7ESteth_f6a6.html"