Talk:Steve Mann

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Contents 1 Use of term "implants" 2 Discussion about article 3 Cyborg theme 4 Counterpoint to the Air Canada incident claims. 5 Subscription required for NYT 6 "Recent Insanity"

[edit] Use of term "implants"

There is no supporting evidence for the use of the term "implants". The following article suggests that the pain of having the equipment removed was caused by pulled hair: http://cognews.com/1062053419/index_html I don't think Dr. Mann has implants as such.

The subject of this article, Steve Mann, has edited Wikipedia as Glogger (talk • contribs).

[edit] Discussion about article

Note: Glogger, who has just substantially expanded this article appears to be Steve himself (unless it is merely an impersonator). It might therefore require some work to make sure this fits our Neutral Point of View policy. Although, given that the last person to edit before that was moink, whose comment sits above, that was probably the case already! - IMSoP 02:42, 25 Apr 2004 (UTC)

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the following was removed from the article itself (added in this version by an anonymous user) by IMSoP 20:26, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Posting as "glogger" Steve Mann is well known in the community for having sucessfully created neologisms on Wikipedia and used the selfsame references to further legitamize these concepts. A few examples: Eyetap; CyborgLog, sousveillance. Whether this sort of action constitutes abuse is the subject of ongoing debate. Interestingly, Glogger has also contributed to this article. It also seems like much of the support for keeping the previous articles stems from supporters, close associates, and employees of Dr. Mann (with the notable exception of a certain Maneesh whose contributions under that name were unsucessful bids to terminate the ambiguous neologisms).

There is also widespread support for his pioneering work, beyond former grad students. What is your problem, what do you have against him?

67.124.220.6 seems to have a personal vandetta, or personal political issue here (i.e. attempts at speedy deletion of articles that have already survived the peer review process of a full VfD, etc.).

I'll go on record as seconding the comments above (Posting as... ambiguous neologisms). It is indisputable that Steve Mann uses Wikipedia for personal promotion. It appears that he gets away with it since he has some name recognition; this makes it only marginally tolerable. Wile E. Heresiarch 05:44, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

On the other hand, you can also call it documenting valid research rather than something base like personal promotion. The risk of self-congratulory propaganda isn't a reason to forbid a person from making an edit to a topic about themselves or something they're related to. That's why everyone on Wiki can perform peer review... Krupo 04:23, Oct 27, 2004 (UTC)

It's perfectly fine. Just stick to the principles in Wikipedia:Vanity page. - Omegatron 23:04, May 8, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Cyborg theme

I consolidated the "cyborg" theme, including the movie, because there seems to be were the personal and very public items occur. 69.181.82.221 22:03, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Counterpoint to the Air Canada incident claims.

Regarding the description of the Air Canada incident, while the "Mann as Cyborg" paragraph _is_ careful to note that the statement involved are claims of Prof. Mann's, as opposed to verified fact, it might be useful to link statements from people who have actually worked with him (perhaps scour Slashdot for the old threads on the subject; a few of his grad students spoke up there). Specifically:

• Contrary to the claims quoted, Prof. Mann had no "cybernetic implants" at the time of the incident. He had his usual wearable computer rig, and ECG electrodes glued to his chest to measure heart activity.
• Contrary to claims Prof. Mann frequently makes, he appears to function without any impairment without his "reality mediation" goggles. I've seen him in the lab routinely without them, as have several other students who have worked with him. His eyeglasses are just eyeglasses (and I've seen him without them, too) - it's the wraparound shades that are the wearable computer display.
• Contrary to claims Prof. Mann had been reported to make to security personnel at Air Canada, his computer equipment would not have been damaged by passing through the x-ray machine, and could have been power-toggled to demonstrate functionality (the test usually asked for electronics that you don't want to put through the x-ray). At the time of the incident, his "wearcomps" were off the shelf "Cappuccino" small form-factor PCs that had been slightly modified.

All of this information is first-hand, from the time that I worked with Prof. Mann on a fourth-year project, and from interactions during my MASc (my cube was right next to his lab, and some of the facilities I used were in the lab itself). I feel that it is important for the controversy over Prof. Mann's claims to be reflected in the article. --Christopher Thomas 16:15, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

I'd like to add, as a newcomer to all this, that the description of Mann's cyborg gear is inadequate for an encyclopedia. There needs to be a description of what Mann wears, has had implanted, etc for three reasons. 1] It's an enactment/part of his research. 2] It's the cause of media attn and public awareness, hence interest in reading the article. 3] Without that, the dramatic airport story doesn't make sense, and maybe should not be reported at all without stronger "according to Mann's claims" type of language. The external links add some but don't address this problem, beyond tantalizing suggestions. Thx, and hope this helps, "alyosha" (talk) 22:34, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

At the time I was interacting with him (in the fall term of 1999, for directly working with him, and from fall 2000 through the end of summer 2003, for being in the same lab), he had no implanted devices whatsoever. He had computers that were carried in a fanny pack at his belt, which connected to wearable displays that looked like wraparound shades. Accessories that I know about are webcam-type cameras (not sure how they were mounted, as I didn't get a look at those rigs), and ECG electrodes (which he didn't usually wear at the time I was at U of T) which I heard him describe as being glued to his skin to measure heart activity. At the time I worked with him, the computers were off-the-shelf "cappuccino" small form-factor PCs, and the displays were commercially available wearable displays (though I've seen a patch-wired electronics rig in one of his setups, and he tried at one point to integrate displays into eyeglass lenses, without success). His usual claim at the time I was working near him was that he had "reality mediation software" constantly running that took camera data and gave him a synthetic view of reality on his visor (top-down map was one claim that was reported to me, though I didn't hear him say _that_ one directly), and that he can't function without this modified view of the world. In practice, I'm not sure his systems at the time were capable of doing exactly what was described under real-world conditions, and he routinely walked around the lab (and university) without his display. --Christopher Thomas 05:32, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Subscription required for NYT

Following the sense of Wikipedia_talk:External_links, i added a signup warning for the NYT. I bet something better could be found that wouldn't put readers thru signup. Thx, hope this helps, "alyosha" (talk) 22:37, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Recent Insanity"

64.229.178.176 (talk • contribs) Added the following text under the heading "recent insanity":

Mann's research and teachings have recently diverged away from his previous interests to more obscure and clearly irrelevant topics. For example, it seems Mann has now undertaken the development of childrens toys, such as "Nessie", a "FUNtain" [1] (FUN founTAIN). Many students of Mann believe he has suffered brain damage from years of overuse of wearable computing devices, as he seems to struggle with verbal communication and fundamental social skills.

No sources for claims of insanity were provided. As far as I can tell from having worked with him, he's always been difficult to get along with (unless you shared his zeal for his pet causes), so I'm not convinced there's even been a change at all. It certainly wouldn't have been caused by his hardware, as it's mostly off-the-shelf components. --Christopher Thomas 16:26, 4 February 2006 (UTC)