Talk:Steampunk

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    [edit] Nabokov

    How about Nabokov's "Ada, or Ardor?" Although it is a real book and it doesn't take place on Earth but takes place on an identical world (called Earth) with Victorian (late Romanov) politics and different forms of modern technologies. --206.28.73.1 16:10, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

    Yeah, it really should be added. The L-disaster, flying carpets, dorophones...
    Aibara 07:42, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

    [edit] POV issue

    "This perfectly sums up what historical steampunk is trying to encapsulate, and also shows us that the idea of such concepts emerging earlier in our history is a truly terrifying one."

    This has GOT to violate NPOV. --69.24.180.217 09:34, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

    [edit] Wallace and Gromit

    Wallace & Gromit animations classify as steampunk (homemade 1950's spaceship, robots, mind-transfer machine etc.)

    [edit] Sky Captain

    I don't believe that Sky Captain is Steampunk, it is not Victorian (Steampunk must deal with the Victorian era, it has to feature technology which would be able to run on steam!) Sky Capatin, however, is a sort of "Decopunk" concerning an alternate jazz era (1920s/30s).

    [edit] Moorcocks Oswald Bastable series

    Moorcocks Oswald Bastable series seems an almost type example of the genre although they were writen before the genre existed and moorcock has similar series that range from the 16th centuary to the present. Perhaps Oswald Bastable could be featured more prominantly?

    [edit] Definition of Steampunk

    Real general question here, but who defined Steampunk to mean "set in alternative victorian era" ??? I consider steampunk to include the genre of post-apocalyptic & collapsed-societies where humanity has recreated a society using only the scraps. And Sky Captain and Brazil should qualify for sure.

    Are there references or citations for anything supporting its restriction to victorian times?

    no. Sky Captain and Brazil are fine examples of retro sci-fi in general, but are not steampunk. too many people are trying to define steampunk so widely as to make the label useless. i mean, a definition wide enough to include Sky Captain in steampunk would also have to include Wings of Honneamise, the George Pal War of the Worlds (and, by extension, the tv series), Heinlein's "Methuselah's Children", The Diamond Age, and so on. might as well just call it "sf" and be done with it.
    that said, i agree that a more rigorous and useful definition needs to come around than "set in an alternate Victorian era". however, i am among those who feel that the late 19th century aesthetic is important (though i am somewhat liberal in this, as i don't see it as absolutely essential) to steampunk as differentiated from other retro sci-fi. however, i think that a definition which specifies that steam-power (as opposed to internal combustion or electrical power, for example) is essential as the primary source of mechanical power might be so obvious as to be nearly unnecessary to say. this immediately disqualifies Sky Captain and Brazil.
    finally, could you please sign your comments? Whateley23 23:07, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
    I think "Steampunk" should be a subset of "retro sci fi." --Chibiabos 06:30, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
    Okay, I don't know if anyone's going to listen to this, seeing as everyone's made up their minds what steampunk is, and I'm relatively new to steampunk -the term that is. However I've been working on and thinking about steampunk-esque art for ages now, without really being able to give a name to it, but what I got an idea of was anything historic, scifi or fantastical that juxtaposes concepts from futurism/speculative fiction and from some era of history. If you don't like this here's my take: yetserday I googled 'steampunk', having been fascinated by this page, and it returned writer's rings and fansites that covered -well just the above. I got some things based on The Time Machine, Disney's new "Atlantis" film, and even fictiional interpretations of Da Vinci. I call that the masses have spoken -the name's just a name. And the only point I can see of there being a name is if it describes something which departs from science fiction by adding a historic element -I've seen that done a lot. What I've NOT seen in such profusion as to merit it's own genre is cyberpunk with a victorian, steam-driven element. Maybe this disagrees with the strict definition, but it's the only version that I think would make sesne. -Zepheriah 15:44, 8 October 2006 (UTC)


    Hi, just a thought, if steampunk is only alternate vicotrian, then is mortal engines not classified as steampunk? It says it is on the wiki page, and fit's every other description of it.

    [edit] Suggestion

    Watching Sky Captain right now, went to Wiki and read about Steampunk! Suggest that The Two Georges by Richard Dreyfuss and Harry Turtledove is also a work that may inform on Steampunk. I really read it, having bought it from a Dollar Store. It had enough descriptions of technology, alternate histories and cultures. Basically, there are dirigibles, steamer cars, and other quaint things. If the author(s) of this article wish, they may wish to add it to the bibliography.

    [edit] Dracula movie and Greystoke

    Why is Bram Stoker's Dracula (1992 movie) and Greystoke in the list? I don't rememeber the slightest elements of fictional machines in either of the whole films. And why is Sky captain here again? Wasn't it deleted? (belongs to alternate 20th century)

    [edit] "Read or Die"

    What about the anime "Read or Die"? It takes place in modern or close-future times, but has a definite steampunk feel to it. The 3-episode OVA features cloned historical figures within their own element, including a massive steam-powered sea fortress and rocket and an evil symphony played by a respawned Beethoven. The aesthetic of the OVA -- especially the Royal Library (sort of secret spy organization) is decidedly Victorian. The series that takes place after largely abandons this, until the last few episodes, when the characters find themselves transported into a Victorian london patroled by Wells' Martian Tripods, Doyle's terrasaurs, and other literary features. At the very least, this section delves decidedly into Steampunk territory.

    Well according to the internet, R.O.D. isn't steampunk. If it was, it would be marked as such by places like anidb and animenfo (which classify Last Exile as steampunk). Also, this article isn't a list of everything that could be considered steampunk, it only mentions a few well-known titles that fall within the genre.65.43.215.131 14:22, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

    [edit] Linking

    Forgive me if I'm wrong as this is my first WikiTalk, but why does Rivet link to Industrial Music? To be sure, Industrial is a part of the lifestyle, but "rivet" and "lifestyle" do not appear anywhere. The Industrial Music article seems more a discussion on, well, the music. Should a new article be created? RoninVII

    [edit] The Mummy

    What about the recent Mummy series? Definitely Gothic and Victorian, with a Fantasy-Horror theme. Pros: Victorian with mis-placed techology. Cons: electricity, 1930s style cars. Wendell 06:38, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

    I don't think so, I'd classify that as Pulp magazine more than steampunk. The only steampunk-style technology that I can think of in either movie was the airship in the second film. -GamblinMonkey 13:27, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

    [edit] Frankenstein

    This page must include Mary Shelly's Frankenstein. It's the first steampunk novel that I am familiar with.

    Reid 06:57, 25 Mar 2004 (UTC)

    [edit] Unsure...

    I'm not certain about some of those included:

    Harry Harrison's transatlantic tunnel is an alternate history novel written and set in the 1970s, not Victorian times, in a world where the American Revolution failed and the British Empire is still going strong. It has a nice mix of technologies advanced or behind ours, with high powered lasers used for drilling, while babbage engines are used to do calculations for sub-orbital flights. But putting it in the steampunk category seems a bit awry..

    Ronald Clark's novel is merely set in the mid 19th century; a physicist gets the idea of isotopic separation after seeing pebbles graded by size on a pebble beach, and makes an atomic bomb. He intends to use it to end the Crimean War, but it never gets used, and no difference is made to history. It was published in the late 60s, IIRC, so it has little to do with cyberpunk or its sideshoot of steampunk...

    Including the 19th century authors seems inappropriate, too: science fiction written during the 19th century is not the same thing as science fiction written about the 19th century. The 19th century authors wrote their stuff with an entirely different intent and sensibility to the modern authors, and I don't think they can honestly be lumped together. The criterion of 'The characters are set in a Victorian or victorian-like society' is a bit all-inclusive - The Mote in God's Eye fulfils that requirement, for one.

    [edit] Oh come on

    This is getting ridiculous. This overabundance and needless tendency to label EVERY literary subgenre with the word "punk" is an insult to any writer or film director who's written or directed something similar to Vernes, Indiana Jones or Sky Captain. Sky Captain especially. "Dieselpunk?" Come on. Why not call it by it's REAL genre. Pulp fiction. The Shadow, the Phantom, Indy Jones, Lone Ranger... pulp fiction. What's next? Samuraipunk? Or there is anything remotely anachronistic during the Revolutionary War, are we going to call it "colonialpunk?"

    As for "Steampunk FASHION"? Absurd. I'm a club promoter and DJ for 5 years and I've been to several goth clubs/shows and I've not seen anything like "steampunk" fashion. - GabrielNYC

    Steampunk MUSIC?! Ridiculous. I removed Raspuntina because they're NOT steampunk music. If they don't call themselves that, then they're not. This labelling of almost anything "-punk" is simply silly. Look up Rasputina on their own entry on Wiki.

    "However, despite their love for antiquities, and their sometimes dark, ethereal sound, they don't easily fit into the goth genre, or any other for that matter."

    Steampunk music indeed...

    What if some country music star dressed like Bat Masterson? Is the singer's music going to be called "countrypunk"? Hell, why don't we call the people who sing old time bluegrass and americana "countrypunk?"

    [edit] "Brazil"

    What about the motion picture Brazil? The technological infrastructure depicted seems to reflect a sort of pipefitter mentality.

    I think not... it's an alternate 20th centuty, not Victorian era.

    [edit] Removing...

    I'm removing:

    • His Dark Materials series by Philip Pullman -- fantasy/alternate-universe science fiction with a quasi-Victorian setting

    Reason: Will's world is our own; Lyra's world is an alternate history. It's not terribly victorian; technology has run on different tracks ("anbaric" for "electric" for example) -- Tarquin

    Remove "Jack Faust" - it is set in the late Middle Ages, early Renaissance. Remove "Perdido Street Station" - this is a completely fictional world with no parallels to the Victorian Age. - Burschik

    [edit] Doctor Who

    I'm not sure any of the Doctor Who episodes listed really qualify. "Pyramids of Mars," for instance, is about an alien race that inspire the ancient Egyptian pantheon; in 1911 an archaeologist in Egypt manages to make contact with the (imprisoned) last survivor of that race, Sutekh. Sutekh gives his new minion instructions on how to construct robot servants... so I guess that's early 1900s robot tech, sure, but that hardly seems to qualify as steampunk. Same sort of thing with "Talons of Weng-Chiang."

    Meanwhile, I'm adding a comic/graphic novel entry to the list... -- Jay (Histrion) 22:28, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC)

    The 2006 series of Doctor Who so far seems to be drawing increacingly on Steampunk ideas. Aside from the allusion in Tooth and Claw, the following episode The Girl in the Fireplace features clockwork robots, and the preview of Rise of the Cybermen shows a parallel modern day London with zeppelins flying overhead instead of jet aircraft.

    Rise of the Cybermen and The Age of Steel both had significant steampunk influences. I added The Age of Steel to the article, and I'll add The Girl in the Fireplace right now. DestradoZero 14:53, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

    I think there was a season of Doctor Who where the TARDIS console room was done in wood pannelling and looked rather like a gentleman's club from the Victorian era. I couldn't find any references to it but I'm certain I remember seeing it a few times. If anyone has a valid source then maybe it deserves a mention too.

    Season 14. The phrase "like something out of Jules Verne" has been used to describe it more than once, so I think you have a point. The same has been said about the cathedral-like console room in the TV Movie. I'm less sure about "CyberEarth" having steampunk influences, though; I thought it was more art deco and 1950s modernism. Zepplins do not a steampunk setting make 8-). Daibhid C 23:33, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

    [edit] A Clockwork Orange

    is there anything particularly victorian/neo-victorian about A Clockwork Orange? i don't remember the story that well, but it doesn't seem to fit the category to me. the society depicted was fairly conservative and dystopian, but there were no explicit links to victorian ethics or style. Esk 00:09, 2004 Jun 22 (UTC)

    [edit] Non-Victorian Steampunk

    - I disagree entirely with limiting Steampunk to victorian-era styles exclusively. Keep in mind, Jules Verne was French. Anything making excessive use of steam and clockwork technologies fits in the Steampunk genre. 2006 Jan 3

    [edit] Interesting stuff, may contribute

    I was just doing a search on Steampunk this morning and came across this entry. Good stuff. I did take the liberty of changing the reference to my site (formerly http://www.geocities.com/i_am_the_cheese/STEAMPUNK.html) to the presently public FAQ. I may contribute some more to the entry at a later date, if that's alright.

    [edit] Firefly

    How does Firefly come to be a steampunk show? Just because it's a scifi with a western spin, doesn't make it so. I though Steampunk meant technology available in a time when it wasn't...not just because a show has a slight old-west flavor it's automatically there. Until someone can provide a good reason for it, I'm taking it off.Gnrlotto

    [edit] Not steampunk

    Removed as not steampunk (Reason): Not all "period" pieces are steampunk. If it is set in the 1930s or later, it cannot be steampunk.

    I disagree strongly with the idea that something can not be steampunk if it is set after the 1930s. This would be like saying that something can't be Victorian if it is set in any time after 1901! Most Victorian homes in these times were built after 1901, and much of steampunk is set after the Steam Age. Steampunk can be a setting/tone as much as it is a defined era/genre. Maybe we should define a "Steampunk Era" in addition to the actual steampunk definition. DestradoZero 14:58, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

    Also, I find the notation of the existance of electricity as somehow being an argument against something being steampunk. Electricity and steampunk are by no means mutually exclusive. DestradoZero 20:54, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

    they're not mutually exclusive, but electricity is a step away from the center of steampunk, and when combined with internal-combustion engines tends to move the feel of the story far away from what can reasonably be considered "steampunk". Whateley23 05:46, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

    -Steampunk and Pulp tend to overlap a bit, and the difference between them is rather blurry. A simple disclaimer on those indicating that they fit both categories should suffice.

    [edit] More not steampunk

    Watch me take a chainsaw to the "Classic Steampunk" section...

    I'll leave the H. G. Wells novels for now, but I have my doubts about them too... --Paul A 04:38, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)

    First of all, I hate the term "Classic Steampunk." The early sci-fi novels by the likes of Jules Verne and H.G. Wells are just that, science fiction. Sure, Steampunk is science fiction, but it is science fiction set in a past era, specifically the victorian era. Do were consider 1950s science fiction "rocketpunk?" Of course not, but if someone were to set a story in that era and write it as though it was a 1950s science fiction novel, then it would be considered "rocketpunk."

    Again, I must reiterate that steampunk can also apply to settings with "original steampunk" influences. Whether or not something is steampunk can be open to debate, it is not such a cut-and-dried thing as some think...at least not in my opinion. Heh. DestradoZero 15:17, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

    I'm with Zero on this. All of this has gotten out of hand. I grew up watching Flash Gordon serials sunday afternoons in the 80s. I called them science fiction, the TV listing called it science fiction. Writers call it super-science/pulp fiction. It's absurd to call it sci-fipunk or dieselpunk or, the newest one I overheard at a bookstore "pulppunk." This is idiotic!

    [edit] whaddya know, not steampunk

    Removed Hellsing from the list of graphic novels. It takes place in the present day or near future. Any apparent artifacts of Victorian culture are due to vampires, not true Victorianism.--ByrnedHead 21:09, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)


    Why are Hudson Hawk and Crimson Skies in the list? I'll go ahead and remove them. Whateley23 10:17, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

    [edit] Casper?

    I fail to see how Casper is steampunk at all, but I'll leave it to someone else to look into since it's been a long time and I might have missed some of its... steampunk qualities.

    Also, Polish users, watch out for the RPG Wolsung... --Silencer 00:25, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

    Bearing in mind that it's specifically the 1995 movie version in question, I assume the reference is to the secret laboratory in the basement, which does have a bit of steampunk aesthetic to it. I wouldn't have listed the movie as a whole, though. --Paul A 05:04, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

    Being as the finale of the movie, and a major part of the plot occur in the basement though, it is safe to call it a steam-punk movie.Gnrlotto

    I'd say it is definitely not a steampunk movie, basement notwithstanding. Neither, for that matter, is Hellboy. Removed. If someone is desperate to have them, obviously they could be replaced, but I would object. Whateley23 12:07, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

    What, pray tell, in a film where the steam-punk basement is the most prominent place in the movie, and also contains the macguffin of the film, would make it not steam punk?

    And secondly, if the clockwork men and tombs from Hellboy aren't enough for you, then I recommend removing the link to "Victorian Adventures in a Past That Wasn't" as they have reviewed it as a steam punk film, and if they're one of the outside links for people to learn more about what steam punk is and they have it so dreadfully wrong, then they are a liability. Not a help.

    Gnrlotto


    Neither contains anything remotely Victorian. Hellboy, specifically, is set in the modern day, clockworks aside. As for removing a link to another stemapunk site because they reviewed something which doesn't seem to fit the criteria, that doesn't seem to be an appropriate response at all. Whateley23 21:54, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

    [edit] Clear Criteria for "Steampunk" needed

    Preferrably list in bold (in a box?) at the top of this page.

    There are items there, such as Full Metal Alchemist (alternate Hitler-won-WII 1940-1980 piece -- steam technology, magic, and Fuhrers - set in Asia/Siberia - at elast thats what I see it as) that just don't seem to qualify as steampunk. Introduction of divisions (such as "Classical" and whatnot) seems to have just given people the idea that everything should be tweaked to somehow be steampunk. --ZayZayEM 06:40, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

    There don't seem to be any criteria at all for inclusion here. Bride of Frankenstein? A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court? Come on...! I'm starting to think that there's no SF that somebody wouldn't qualify as "steampunk". -Sean Curtin 05:10, Dec 19, 2004 (UTC)

    The concept of Steampunk seems to be a retrospective look of the past (mostly 19th century) era with advanced technology. Conn. Yankee seems to be the template.
    The problem seems to be that people are defining Steampunk (or at least discussing its spin-offs) very broadly in the text part, and then being very stringent when it comes to putting actual works on the various lists even when they seem to fit criteria for steampunk or a sub-category as discussed above. Really, what we need to do is decide whether the mechanics of steampunk (the type of technology, the alternate-history status, etc.) are more important to steampunk fandom than "steampunk feel" (which can be conveyed by technically non-steampunk work like His Dark Materials, Sky Captain, and so on), and if so make the text clearer on that decision. As for the works, perhaps we should make a list/page of "feels like steampunk" titles w/ brief text on how this stuff conveys the mood but not the mechanics, or some such? My personal opinion is that the issue needs to be broached somehow, since HDM, Sky Captain and many other similar but not technically steampunk works are what get people into the genre, and don't seem to quite fit into other branches of fantasy and sf. - Tinderblast 21:46, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
    I agree with the conservatives on this one: less is more. Someone seems to have been stretching to include every possible SF book/movie/game in existence in this category. This isn't a catalog, it's an encyclopedia. I'd strongly advocate to paring down the "lists" only to works which really exemplify steampunk ideology, technology, and themes. Jberkus 06:19, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

    [edit] Merging of Sandal/Clock punk

    I think these genres should probably have there own smaller articles, linked to in small summaries in this main article.

    This keeps this article smaller, and more focused. It will also help define what is steampunk and what is not-really steampunk.

    Other steampunk spin offs (Bronzepunk, stonepunk etc.) shoudl probably also be made into small articles.--ZayZayEM 08:02, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)

    Got any ideas for what to do with the "not quite steampunk but feels like it" stuff that really doesn't have a niche of its own? I mean, what is Sky Captain anyway? Just retro sci-fi, or what?
    Sky Captain belongs to a sub-genre often called "retro-futurism". Whateley23 21:57, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

    Also, is it just me, or is a lot of animejapanese video game steampunk kind of in a separate category of its own? Things like Final Fantasy and Trigun seem to have a lot more in common with each other stylistically and in terms of how technology is borrowed than with the rest of the genre, whatever that is.-Tinderblast 21:49, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

    [edit] Discworld

    I think Terry Pratchett's Discworld series is definantly worth listing in the Bibleography somewhere, but not sure exactly where...

    I think that Fantasy is where Pratchet's Discworld should sit. His stuff might contain stuff that could be considered Steampunk but that mostly due to the parody style of his writing. --Brother William 10:18, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
    yeah,you could argue that the clacks are considered steampunk, but not much else is.

    [edit] Dinotopia

    Why is Dinotopia included? Overall the books contain extremely little tech of any kind, let alone something that would exist later. A massive clock powered by a waterfall and very simple airships that are effectively hot-air balloons is the most advanced you get. The "strutters" that appear in the second and third hardcover books are tech, but from a lost, Atlantis-esque civilization, and powered by the purely fictitious Sunstones, not steam, clockwork, or anything of the sort.

     i completely agree. so, it's gone. Whateley23 23:41, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

    [edit] WoW?

    I love me some World or Warcraft just as much as the next person.

    But what, praytell, exactly classifies it as Steampunk? There is very little technology (if any), with the roll usually given to fantastic mechanical devices in most of the Steampunk genre, instead given to the supernatural.

    Just a thought.

    The Goblins, Gnomes and Dwarves from the Warcraft games (not just World of Warcraft, but Warcraft 3, it's expansion and the D20 Warcraft pen & paper roleplaying game, especially in the latter, which has a whole manual full of Steampunk-genre technology) have Steampunk-esque technology. Robrecht 15:10, 7 August 2005 (UTC)


    Ive never thought Warcraft to be steampunk because of the comical nature of the rockets and tanks and robots and such.--70.17.208.32 00:33, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

    There are steampunk elements in World of Warcraft, however as a whole the setting is a High Fantasy setting. However, simply because of the massive impact that World of Warcraft has had on society, it might be worth it to put it on the list anyway. (6 million subscribers, after all. )

    [edit] Bri-Fi

    This is a term I've invented for any Sci-Fi or Fantasy set in a real location in the UK, (Doctor Who, Harry Potter, Neverwhere, Geoffrey of Monmouth, His Dark Materials etc.)

    [edit] The opposite of Steampunk?

    While steampunk mostly is about the victorian era surrounded by advanced technology based on the technology already present (like steam based technology), it is possible to create an opposite world.

    We can imagine a world in the future surrounded by technology much more advanced than what is available today, but the people lives like in the 18'th century. The society is based on bio- and nano technology that have fused together, creating inventions and helping tools that a much more like living organisms than machines. Instead of horses they have organic cars or vehicles with legs. Instead of animals, the farmers are growing the meat in tanks (in vitro meat). Instead of surveillance cameras they have artificial intelligence connected to each others and with organic eyes different places in the society. Instead of electricity they have houses of "flesh", which reminds about a living organism, giving them gas to cook food with, heat from metabolism, organic light instead of light bulbs and so on. The houses gets all their energy from an advanced plumbing system, providing the house with liquid nutrients and removing its waste. Most products are grown inside buildings that reminds more about farms than factories.

    Most of the energy in the society comes from algae or plants that feeds in solar power, or maybe from somewhere else.

    The major difference would be the fact that the humans used very little mechanics (instead they are using morphers where it is essential) because of the advanced nano/bio technology and no electricity at all (except from the neural impulses inside the living network of artificial (real?) intelligence based on ganglions/genetically modified nerves, used to connect the inhabitants with each others, even if the network itself gets the energy from liqued nutrients, just as a real brain). And very little metal. Instead we would have buildings and vehicles covered with living tissue like skin or cuticula/chitin. Or, nanomachins could build diamondlike materials (What Eric Drexler calls "The Diamond Age). "Using a kind of diamond fibers, materials can be created which are almost unbreakable and have a strength/weight factor fifty times greater than the strongest conventional materials. Imagine decreasing the dry weight of planes and spacevehicles some fifty times. This will re-open the possibility for cheap and simple one-person airplane or even one-person spacevehicles. There have been estimates of a car weighing only 10 kilograms and a spacevehicle with a dry weight of 50 kilograms. Of course a car of such small weight will have to carry balast to avoid being blown away by a mere gust of wind." Could it be these which are the so-called diamonoids?

    [edit] Outside of Steampunk

    What people have forgotten to add (which I have carefully taken the opportunity of contributing) is that anything outside of Steampunk i.e. post 1930's which uses the technology of the combustible engine and fuel would be recognised as Dieselpunk. Films such as Sky Captain, Batman, The Shadow, Lemony Snicket, The Mummy and The Mummy Returns should perhaps be moved to a film list for that particular genre which incorporates elements from Steampunk and Atomicpunk i.e. pre-Cold War era combining both World Wars examples: War of the Worlds, The Day the Earth Stood Still, Flash Gordon, Day of the Triffids, Night of the Living Dead and so on...

    So basically Dieselpunk is an alternate future where the ideas and designs of the early 30's influenced the world exemplified with the boom in skyscrapers, gothic architecture, the autmobile, automatic machinery and so on. Tim Burton is typical for using imagery relating to 'dieselpunk' themes.

    So there should be a reference here to the other genre. I am already working on the other punk genre pages trying to accumulate enough info and data for the empty ones. Any help is appreciated of course. Piecraft 21:33, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

    BTW why does Sandalpunk redirect to the Steampunk page? I can understand Clockpunk, but Sandalpunk should have its own definition.

    [edit] Sky Captain

    I thought movies like Sky Captain and the World of tomorrow already was an own genre called retro sci-fi?

    It's called futurology, i think. NorkNork 17:39, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
    Sorry, retro-futurism is more accurate in this case, but it's based on futurology. NorkNork 17:49, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
    Personally I would have said Sky Captain comes under the pulp genre. I how much more Doc Savage can you get? --Brother William 10:23, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
        • OK, thanks for the answear. Then there already is a name for it.

    [edit] Are these films Steampunk?

    Someone added films like Nausicaa, and the Shanghai Knights movies, and a few others to the list of films (I think Brotherhood of the Wolf was also there).

    Are these steampunk?

    I'm hesitant to remove them as I haven't seen them, so can not make an accurate assessment, but, based on what I have seen, some of them, like the Shanghai Knights movies are anachronistic, but do not involve any steam technology. Gnrlotto 20:15, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

    I added Nausicaa, Young Sherlock Holmes, and Sherlock Hound. Nausicaa is set in an Imperialistic society that utilizes steampunk style technology. Young Sherlock Holmes featured a number of Steampunk elements, including an ornithoptor. Sherlock Hound featured a Moriarty that had a new steampunk gadget or vehicle in every episode.
    I disagree; Nausicaa is probably the only Miyazaki movie which isn't Steampunk. I'd remove it, but if I started cutting things I'd be here all night. Jberkus 06:22, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

    [edit] Broader classifications of steampunk?

    Just a query. Must steampunk really stop at mechanical devices? What if the setting say, involved basic electrical systems and hydraulics? Nothing fancy. Maybe just a simple system powering street-lights. CABAL 07:18, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

    [edit] Myst?

    Would the Myst series (and books) be classified as steampunk? Seems to me the machines etc are steampunkish, although there are references to electricity etc, and the D'Ni Art is mostly magic, so the whole setting perhaps isn't really steampunk. But I'd like to know where you'd classify it then...

    [edit] Sandpunk?

    I was wondering if there were any objections to a few edits. There seems to be a lot of disagreement on whether or not futuristic, 'steampunk-like' properties are in fact steampunk. I would argue that Treasure Planet, Trigun and the Final Fantasy games aren't really steampunk at all, but something else.

    For me, steampunk must be set in the past, particularly the victorian past, but not necessarily. These are set in the future. I think a difference has to be set between futuristic historical fiction and anachronistic futurist fiction.

    I started calling some of these types of stories sandpunk a while ago, and I was hoping to add that to the entry under the appropriate section (along with clockpunk and the like). Any objections/ suggestions?--Spectre general 21:07, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

    [edit] Last Exile Anime

    For sure, the anime series Last Exile should be included. Any thoughts? (preceding unsigned comment by 66.12.7.90 (talk • contribs) --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 19:09, 5 October 2005 (UTC))

        • I totally agree that Last Exile should be in this list. FACT50 18:37, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
    Partially, at least. The normal people have technology that would definitely qualify as steampunk. However, consider the fact that they have shown themselves to have basic electrical systems and radios. The Guild is definitely out of the picture. They have freaking televisions and cameras. CABAL 20:44, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

    [edit] Steampunk Music?

    How is "And You Will Know Us by the Trail of Dead" considered Steampunk. Same thing goes for The Faint, and The Beatles? Actually I'm going to remove Eleanor Rigby, because upon listening to it again I don't hear how it could be seen as Steampunk? It has violins and other strings but so does The Moody Blues and The Pet Shop Boys, etc. Neither of which I'd consider Steampunk either. I think their needs to be some anachronistic theme to the song itself for me to consider it Steampunk. Why don't we just list the artists that have some amount of a steampunk influence or mood in their music, instead of just individual songs and albums?FACT50 10:28, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

    I don't see how any music can be "steampunk". --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 19:06, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
    I included a link to my own project "Vernian Process" (as in Jules Verne) because I am actually attempting to create Steampunk music. As far as I know, no one else in the world has ever created music that is specifically tailored towards the Steampunk genre. FACT50 20:09, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
    Abney park is steampunk, they are specifically created ove rthat genre.

    [edit] Too Much Credit to League of Ex. Gentlemen

    I've changed the paragraph crediting Alan Moore with the current popularity of steampunk themes and art. The genre is too popular, too established and too widespread to credit one twelve-issue 2003-2004 comic with popularizing it.

    I was dubious but you've executed it better in the article than you've explained it here. There's no need to minimise the achievements of Alan and Kevin in popularising steampunk (there's a film too) but extending the credit to include the likes of Miyazaki is fine. Jim Moreau 21:55, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
    Jim, yes, what I revised was that the previous form of the article was phrased to give Moore exclusive credit for the recent popularity of Steampunk, which wasn't realistic. Personally, I never regarded LoEG as Steampunk as the press did; Moore's comics are much more about literature than about retro-science-fiction the way some Anime is or Girl Genius. Jberkus 03:17, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

    [edit] Reword the Article?

    It appears to me that much of the text in the first few paragraphs is confusing. A lot is said but I don't think the message is being conveyed. Most of the words require circular reasoning, or knowledge about the subjects being used to define Steampunk. Can someone reword these areas in simpler terms? Justabaldguy 02:30, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

    [edit] Oddworld inhabitants

    I think the Oddworld series of games is a viable point of reference for fantasy steampunk. Perhaps the literal use of steam is not totally appropriate, no, but the architecture portrayed throughout the game is a brilliant exageration of victorian steelworks and such. Trainyard-style wrought iron and steel arching infrastructure, especially the extension of curleque bracing and scrimshaw-pattern into such, is a big part of the "victorian scifi reference" we all seem to be trying to touch on, and the work of Oddworld Inhabitants really nails it, especially in Abe's Exoddus and Stranger's Wrath. On another note, there have been a lot of attempts at naming the retrofuturist pieces embracing early 20th century designs (from deco to atomic styles especially), but I think the best so far is "neopulpist", referencing pulp fiction and comic books, arguably the thread that ties the late 20's to late 50's period of streamlined, fin-abundant utopian futurism together as an era. However, I also like "bell-cronkitian", a reference to Walter Cronkite's longrunning series of often ridiculous, but sometimes startlingly accurate, investigations of upcoming technologies from Bell Laboratories. However, this definition is a little too specific- it's just an awesome word, and we should try to get it in the vernacular.

    [edit] Absurdity

    Wow... I wonder if we aren't defining Steampunk into anal-retentive absurdity here... "Steampunk" began with Cyberpunk, but like it or not, it has grown in common usage to mean any Science Fiction with Victorian Sci-Fi-like technology and/or themes. So what if it has neither steam technology nor any "punk" elements (of course Steampunk isn't Punk... you don't see brainwashed, consumeristic kids going to the mall to buy Steampunk stuff from Hot Topic).

    I think a very good example of this is Disney's 1961 cartoon "The Saga of Windwagon Smith". The story, set in 19th century Kansas, is about a sailor who rigs up a chuckwagon with a deck and sail, with plans on sailing the windy prairies to Santa Fe. It involves neither clockworks, nor steam, nor anything especially "punk" (though you can get the DVD with it at Wal-Mart, so I guess that makes it kinda' Punk), but is anyone going to seriously suggest that we have to come up with an entirely different name for it because of that?! With everyone falling over themselves to label every Sci-Fi genre something-punk, I'm sure we can come up with a suitably ridiculous term: Chuckwagonpunk? Wagonwheelpunk? Sailpunk? Oh wait, those almost have a ring to them... We need something that sounds as bad as "Sandalpunk" or "Dieselpunk"...

    Anyways, some perfectly defensible inclusions to the media list...

    Hellboy - Yes it is set in the modern-day and is dominated by horror-action movie tropes and Lovecraftian influences, but it includes a clockwork room and a Victorian scientist who is basically a clockwork cyborg. That is more than enough.

    Read or Die OVA - Again, set in the modern day, but nearly all the villains and technology in it are Victorian-Edwardian Steampunk. Maybe we need to define a new genre of "Modern Steampunk" as stories set in the modern day but including wallops of Steampunkesque technology.

    Chitty Chitty Bang Bang - Did you know that they had internal combustion engines in the Victorian-Edwardian era? Did you know that the movie is set in the Edwardian era? Did you know that Dick Van Dyke's character is an inventor? Did you know that the car flies for crying out loud?

    Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court - A man from Connecticut goes back in time and sets up the Industrial Revolution in Camelot, including steam-power! Nah, nothing Steampunkesque about that! Hey, maybe we should just have another entry for "Steampunkesque" so that everybody who is retentive about Steampunk being nothing but Steam and nothing but Punk can deconstruct to their heart's content.

    Bride of Frankenstein - It is set in what appears to be the 19th century and though the technology is 1930's Strickfaden machines, but... well... Franklin, Volta, Galvani, Faraday, Edison, Westinghouse, Telsa... Do we really need to come up with the name Electropunk for Sci-Fi set in the Victorian-Edwardian era using electric technology rather than steam technology?

    Anyways, sorry about this being so peevish, but a lot of this debate just looks really silly.

    None of it is notable according to most editors, therefore because non eof these filmas have ever been listed or made with the Steampunk literary genre in mind they should not be categorised as such. Piecraft 19:32, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
    One might argue that no Steampunk works have been intentionally created as Steampunk works. Gibson himself was dreading the application of the term "Steampunk". Prior to 1979, no such term even existed, but that didn't stop people from making retro-Victorian sci-fi. That lack of direct intention in itself provides no out from regarding works with Steampunk elements as relevant to the genre. The term itself is almost always applied retroactively or as a point of reference for other people.
    That's all very good, but that was the same reason for the now defunct article of dieselpunk being deleted. Therefore by that logic this article steampunk whould either be pruned considerably or just deleted as dieselpunk were.


    -well, literary genres inherently are vague and blurry. You can easily have a story that fits into Steampunk, Cyberpunk, Desielpunk, Noir, Detective fiction, and so on. These genres overlap and form a massive Venne diagram. So, alot of this argueing and effort put into trying to stick every single piece of fiction into only one particular literary box is simply wasted.

    [edit] "This Devil's Workday"

    What makes "This Devil's Workday" steampunk?

    [edit] Overlinking

    Although steampunk is -- by definition -- fiction, the bibliographical and media lists have grown to about 3/5 of the article length! Is it about time to move the list to a separate page leaving just a short list of notable steampunk pieces here? (Of course any narrowing down is going to be rather trying exercise.) Some pieces listed have merely a steampunk aesthetic without concerning the core idea, so they're prime for culling. I think many of the arguments for inclusion/omission already on this page are too concerned with individual entries than establishing a common criteria. --mordemur 13:18, 8 March 2006 (UTC)


    [edit] I Agree With The Comments Re Absurdity

    I am in basic agreements with the comments entitled 'Absurdity.' Let me add my two cents. It seems that some are trying to derive a lot from two words put together : steam and punk. The union of these two words is just a label. The technology in such literature, contrary to what some may think, does not have to run on steam. The submarine in 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea ran on electricity. And there is nothing really 'punkish' about it. It is simply a label for a sub-genre of science fiction, in which the setting is the 19th Century, in which different technologies occurred.

    Yes, it doesn't actual have punkish thing's in it, it's just hwo the genre is named. You can't go around changing the names of real thing's which everyone else calls them, just because they make no sense! It's like saying welsh dragon sasauges contain no dragon so they should be renamed!

    [edit] Trimming

    this has been discussed several times, but i think that it's time we actually worked to figure it out. there are simply too many references to specific works in this article. we need to trim that down to a list of essentials that truly and clearly encapsulate the steampunk genre or aesthetic. this isn't really intended to be a comprehensive listing of everything that someone, somewhere has suspected might be steampunk. Whateley23 10:42, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

    Actually, it is useful, but the list is too long and overpowers the main topic - the definition and explanation of the genre. I moved the list to its own article. - Davodd 04:11, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

    [edit] Famous Steampunk Manga

    I just wanted to bring up an observation: the manga Full Metal Alchemist is rather steampunk-ish. It's sort of an odd mishmash of modern times and the Victorian era, taking palce around the 1910's. A major plot element is mechanical gadgetery, and thsi sort of mysteriously dystopian society. More or less fantasy steampunk. So, I just thought it might warrant being added to the list, but I'm not sure if the list is being actually used for discussion. 71.10.236.201 00:58, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

    [edit] Eberron as steampunk

    Can someone point me to a reliable source that classifies Eberron as "steampunk"? All the apparent technology (warforged, airships, etc) is based on the manipulation of magic rather than steam technology. Furthermore, Eberron's creators are specific about the setting's origins and influences (see sourced roots and influences section of Eberron article) and steampunk does not figure amongst them. --Muchness 01:32, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

    Here's a quote from Eberron's art director Robert Raper: "I used a lot of analogies when I was trying to describe the setting. It's not steampunk, nor is it the Middle Ages or dark ages -- it's not traditional fantasy."[1]
    Eberron's creator Keith Baker: "People are saying 'It's Shadowrun!' It's not. 'It's steampunk!' It's not." [2] --Muchness 01:45, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
    Eberron adds pervasive "technology" that has destabilized society, a common theme of Cyberpunk. The "tech" simply happens to magical. This tech is anachronistic relative to stereotypical portrayals of fantasy societies, a trait it shares with steampunk. That said, this doesn't make it cyberpunk or steampunk. Eberron is related to cyberpunk in much the same way steampunk is. I have no idea what this makes it (dungeonpunk? Although I think that got grabbed for a different sub-genre), or if it's worth mentioning in the article, but I think this is why people are keen on labelling it steampunk. Alan De Smet | Talk 02:19, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
    Thanks for the lucid explanation, I can certainly see why the comparison is being made. I just feel we ought to be careful about classifying Eberron as steampunk when the creators explicitly disavow such a connection; in doing so we veer towards original research by drawing analogies without attribution to (or in this case, in contradiction to) third party sources. --Muchness 03:46, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

    [edit] Francois Schuiten and Benoît Peeters

    I stumbled across this article -- hadn't heard the term "steampunk" before. What about Schuiten and Peeters' Les Cités Obscures graphic novel series? (see also the Web site) Seems to fit the definition and in some circles at least, is very well-known. --Macrakis 22:38, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

    Les Cités Obscures would most definitely be categorized under Steampunk.

    [edit] Martian Dreams

    Does the CRPG Martian Dreams warrant inclusion in this article?--ragesoss 01:06, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

    Possibly. But do we need to include every single reference of things that might be steampunk? --Brother William 01:49, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

    [edit] Certain Anime/Manga are NOT Steampunk

    I have issue with several Anime and manga that are listed as "Steampunk:"

    • Naruto - Ninja
    • One Piece - Pirates
    • Dragon Ball - Based on Mythology and general Bash'em Up Fighting

    Anyone care to give ample reason why these three should be listed as Steampunk?--293.xx.xxx.xx 21:12, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

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