Image talk:Steele Retchless.jpg

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This is a London Broncos publicity shot of Steele. I contacted the player himself by e-mail and he was happy with the content of the page.

Will he release the image under a license (such as the GFDL) that allows it to be copied or edited for any reason, even commercial? —Chowbok ☠ 16:52, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

I'll would have to ask him or the club but its seems unneccesary. The picture was taken when Steele was presented with an award for the acheiving the most appearances ever for a player of London Broncos. That is not a scenario that can be recreated. This is a moment that fans of the player would recognise as significant.

Can you please point me to the definition of "unrepeatable" that you are using in order to challenge fair use. Jbuzza 19:28, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

His receiving an award is unrepeatable but I fail to see why that's significant. First of all, there's no indication in the picture that he's getting an award; he just has his hands over his head. Also, in the article there's nothing in the image caption that indicates he's getting an award. So the photo isn't illustrating this particular event but rather just Retchless himself. Therefore, it can reasonably be replaced with a different photo of Retchless (unless, of course, the copyright holder of this image is willing to release it under a free license). —Chowbok ☠ 19:54, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

The guidelines I assume you are using state the following:

Wikipedia permits the 'fair use' of content only under very restricted circumstances where the image or content not only meets the legal tests for fair use but is also, in essence, not repeatable. ie. it would not be possible to replace the image or content with an equivalent free image. This might, for example, include an historical event, but a publicity still of a vehicle, building or living person can be replaced comparatively easily.

An allegation of 'fair use' must be defended by the person claiming that status and, while it is for the uploader to determine whether something meets the 'fair use' criteria, if the image could reasonably be replaced with a free image that would provide the same value to the reader, then it is very likely to be removed and a request made for such a free image to be obtained.''

This image is of a historical event ( I can make that clearer in the article if it helps) and is therefore unrepeatable. Even if it was just a picture of Steele with his hands over his heads then the question would be could it reasonably be replaced. The answer to this is no it couldn't. There are very few images available and this is the only head shot (the type of image that has most value for the reader in such articles) that I could find. I have looked for alternatives without success. For example, a Google image search return 4 images of which this is by far the most suitable for this article.

There seems to be ongoing debate on Wikipedia talk:Fair use which suggests the current guideline is flawed. However, even as it stands this image cannot be reasonably replaced. Jbuzza 22:30, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, I disagree that it can't be "reasonably" replaced, but of course that depends of the meaning of "reasonable". We've both made our points, we'll just have to let the admins decide. But of course the ideal solution would be if the copyright owner released this picture under the GFDL, since that would render the entire argument moot. Since you seem to be in touch with the club, I encourage you to ask them. —Chowbok ☠ 23:15, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Without a definition of "reasonably replaced" I don't see how a considered judgement can be made. I understand what the guideline is trying to do and understand the problem it attemps to resolve. However, at present this area is poorly thought through with a seemingly very strict interpretation of fair use. In my view, this interpretation is impractical and will lead to reduced quality of articles. To be clear this image is not easily replaceable if at all. The player is now retired and the specific photo is of a career highlight that cannot be repeated. Jbuzza 13:27, 12 November 2006 (UTC)